Appropriate tank/terrarium/enclosure sizes?

[BobGrill]

Try telling that to my P. cancerides. He is constantly looking for a way to escape, and to quote Jurassic Park,
"Ellie: The fences are electrified though right?
Guy: That's right but they never attack the same place twice.
They were testing the fences for weaknesses systematically.
They remember."
Obligatory sound clip

Muldoon was referring to the raptors though. Jumping spiders are more like raptors. They're fast, agile, and intelligent. Tarantulas are more like a T.Rex. Large, intimidating, and strong, but not too bright.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[klawfran3]

Try telling that to my P. cancerides. He is constantly looking for a way to escape, and to quote Jurassic Park,
"Ellie: The fences are electrified though right?
Guy: That's right but they never attack the same place twice.
They were testing the fences for weaknesses systematically.
They remember."
Obligatory sound clip

clever girl...

 

[Kibosh]

Your opinions on the "thoughts and feelings" of invertebrates is irrelevant. Truth is what makes the animal thrive in its natural habitat. Its not a dog, cat, or horse. Its a Tarantula that even the largest of females doesn't leave nor need a space larger than a few feet unless forced to in the wild. Not trying to be rude just stating the obvious. Just like PETA trying to convert carnivores into herbivores, or the nut trying to feed T's artificial food. Trying to replicate what is natural for the animal in its natural habitat is humane, not misguided morals.

 

[viper69]

Your opinions on the "thoughts and feelings" of invertebrates is irrelevant. Truth is what makes the animal thrive in its natural habitat. Its not a dog, cat, or horse. Its a Tarantula that even the largest of females doesn't leave nor need a space larger than a few feet unless forced to in the wild. Not trying to be rude just stating the obvious. Just like PETA trying to convert carnivores into herbivores, or the nut trying to feed T's artificial food. Trying to replicate what is natural for the animal in its natural habitat is humane, not misguided morals.

+100, What logical, sane rational person converts carnivores to herbivores-NONE

Yeah artificial food to a T, last I checked Star Trek Replicators didn't exist yet hahahah what a joke that was. Too many Trekkie conventions!

 

[jsteadm1]

A few days ago my friend told me about a G roses that someone needed a home for because they were leaving for the army. I decided to take it even though I already have a beautiful female Rosie. Anyway he tried to give me the 15 gallon tank it was in, and got offended when I told him that I didn't want it. I ended up taking it and now its just sitting outside until I can clean it out. I put the G. rosea in a plastic shoebox enclosure. Its about a gallon or one and a half and its perfect for the adult spider he gave me. Just thought I'd post my this recent occurrence since its is relevant. Hope it helps.

 

[cold blood]

its all personal, there's no reason to get offended . My 25+ year old rosie has spent its entire adult life in an aquarium marked as 15 long (30x12x12"). The only real issue I have noticed is that your feeders have more hiding places and feeding time is a little more labor intensive as I make sure the prey makes its way in front of the t. Cleaning and maintanence are actually easier as I can work without disrupting her at all...she could care less when I am working in there, just sits playing pet rock while I do whatever I need to do. She's quite comfortable in there and has had no adverse effects at any time.

That said, she'd likely be just as comfortable in a much smaller enclosure just as well. Like I mentioned earlier, bigger enclosures are more for us, but if done properly, it shouldn't be an issue for the t. So far its really my only "roomy" enclosure, but I must say I like the thought of having to look to find the creature....but most will just find a small corner or hide they find to their liking and stay there nearly permanently, as they would naturally. Generally only mature males wander (in search of females)

 

[vespers]

an aquarium marked as 15 long (30x12x12")

Those dimensions are for a 20 gallon long. A 15 gallon is 24x12x12.

 

[cold blood]

good catch...my mistake, you're absolutely correct.

 

[vespers]

good catch...my mistake, you're absolutely correct.

No worries man. Just wanted to mention it, since some folks come to AB in search of info.

 

[prairiepanda]

Anyways, my point is, if I have 10 gallon tanks for smaller species, what do you personally think would be appropriate and nice for larger species like the ones I listed? Would a terrarium larger than a 10 gallon be okay, or would just a 15 tank be suitable do you think? Or do I bring it up a notch and get a 20 gallon? What would you think humanely gives a wild pet a good home? I mean these things weren't naturally meant to be pets, they had huge areas that were their terrariums. It's only fair to give them a nice amount of space to explore and stretch in.

I wouldn't bother with a 15 gallon tank, because the amount of floorspace is not much of an upgrade from a 10 gallon. A 20 gallon long (not tall) tank would be a nice upgrade for those big species. I agree that it's excessive, but it won't do your Ts any harm

If you ever get into dwarfs, well...a 2.5 gallon might be nice, if you're into glass tanks. 5 or 10 gallons would be way too big for many dwarf species.

 

[pyro fiend]

im going to agree with pretty much everything here. especially the ball python thing.

now i used to think the same as you.. bigers better, all of us did at one time.. till you realize a pet hole is a pet hole.

i used to keep my 2ft ball in a 50g breeder, lots of plants, 3 hides, 2 water dishes, many branches.. and im a night owl. i can sit in the dark and right or read on net with dimmest computer settings.and i expected to see the snake more offen.. and when i realized in a happy snake they dont realy like to go outside and get air. they just wana hide and stay hidden....so i dug a hole in the back yard. made it like a hide. let the snake roam around [supervised ofcourse] and guess where he went.. the hole.. not in the tree, not under the car, not even near the pool or big pile of brush.. a hole...and i waited for hours... i thought maybe its a little hot.. its only 80sum degrees but maybe the sun he hates... so i tried again next week. near feed time.. this time 2 holes.. one in sun one in shade 4ft apart. it was a little hotter prob 90ish. but he seen shades[bigger] hole and hid in sun one... then i decided lets move him down to a 20long... more hides and smaller ones too.. after constantly moving his hides after feeds i notices he went to the smaller more comfortable one or the one he could fit in perfectly. not on hot or warm side in particular.. so against all my mind told me i invested in some totes.. a 41qt for my bigger one and a 28qt for my smaller one.. and they seemed to LOVE them.. no not crawling all around but happy content being a bump on a log.. you know when i see them? when they are foraging for food.. and they also now have much better feeding responses as well, excluding my super problem feeder [pretty sure hes a wild caught]

however some animals are different from others i have kept betas. now yes people prefer to say they need 5gs and typically id agree. but iv had ones who will sulk and refuse to eat in big elaborate tanks..even 2.5g tanks.. iv also had fish who hated plants, live and fake and would not go near them... and even had a male who was the happiest in a 1ltr sized jar. if i put him in a gallon the exact same temp water and same exact floating plant.. hed get "mad"... wouldnt eat for a week and so i didnt starve or stress him id end up puting him back in the jar. but also wild betas are not the same as a beta splendid iv kept both. males can live together in the wild variety, not the splendid, to achieve it in your common beta you need many plants to break the line of sight... but then again on the individual animal thing iv also put 2 boys in the same tank divided they did not care. and on a day off with nothing better to do. i cupped the boys, reoranged the tank so noone had a set place to defend. and released them at the same time.. never had a fin bit, never a dull color. these boy where both pets bought on aqua bids... no relations.. they lived together in a 20g long full of fake plants for 3 years till one died of old age [he was a yr or so old retired breeder when i bought him]

to me when i see a spider in a burrow with a tonn of silk.. i dont think its a "bored animal" its a happy normal T..this is what they do in the wild... plus cant quite say we domesticated them i believe there minds are 90%+ instinct. now iv noticed some small animals recognize faces like fish.. someone can sit in front of my fishtank with face to the glass. and they swim around not caring, but i walk in the room its all eyes on me [like the fish in Evan almighty lol] they know the hand that feeds them. but i dont think arachnids are quite to that point yet. im not sure if its the brain size. the lack of interaction or that they are in fact a instinct only animal

as for comparing spiders to snakes yes this is not the same thing but as stated before its a size of enclosure thing.. each animal has there own personality. as iv said.. now i may not have arachnids at this time. but if a huge enclosure can make my "wild caught" snake stressed from big enclosure.. does this not debunk the "but they have all of africa to roam" theory??[all sides where blacked out or red when observing this animal]

i mean its personal preference but i think your fighting a lost cause unless your guy is just abnormally active as you say. and doesnt hide when in a smaller tank then go ahead.. but your going to get the same answer from all of us i believe..

 

[Destrabalare]

Some of you seemed pretty rude and there's really no reason to be rude about it. My uncle that I live with owns a a refugee funded by a group in Australia, and I've only (until about a year or two ago) collected pets that need constant love and affection, a lot of space, and a lot of care. So this is new to me. I never hold my tarantulas or snakes, I don't intend on treating them like dogs like some of you seem to assume. I'm not that stupid. But being around all types of living creatures since I was a child I've noticed that what some people consider okay for them actually isn't. Which is why I was asking the opinion of people on this site who have studied them and owned them for quite a while. I wanted to start collecting tarantulas since I was 16, but didn't own any until I was 18 because I wanted to make sure I did all of my research and such. Tarantulas tend to stay in one area that's true, but they also have large areas to explore when they want - which as far as I know, they actually do occasionally want to. Also just the fact that some of them have large leg spans it seemed logical that they'd need a larger area. I'm not trying to anthropomorphize them, but it's completely logical to believe that these intelligent creatures are capable of some form of thought process similar to emotions. Which is why I was asking what an experienced owner who's studied or seen them in natural habitat would think about the cage size for a larger one. Purely because I'm used to smaller ones.

Yes, I'm new to this, that's the whole point of asking for different opinions to take what I will and consider each of them. No reason to be rude and act like I have no common sense! Questioning the ethical situation of the situation doesn't make me an idiot. The act of taking a wild creature and trying to keep it shouldn't be taken lightly. I've seen plenty of situations where a tarantula in it's natural habitat moves around and explores whatever hide or cave hole they've claimed. So it makes sense that putting them in their own little habitat would lead to them wanting to explore more,especially if/when they're capable of learning there isn't anything around to do them harm. I think people underestimate the capability of a creature to develop different mind sets when kept in captivity.

Also again, English isn't my first language but I'm trying to make it as clear as possible.

 

[viper69]

There is peer-reviewed data from scientists indicating that at least for females where they hatch out is generally the immediate area they will live out the rest of their lives for some NW scrubland species, such as B vagans.

Males wander when looking for a mate that's it.

"similar to emotions.... Intelligent" the OP wrote above.

OK similar emotions- could you give examples of what you are thinking ??? Because emotions as we primates have, they do not have at all. WHY? Because they don't have the neuroanatomical central nervous system structures that we do. So it's physically impossible.

Intelligent- well that's REALLY a relative term. Intelligent compared to what? A snake's intelligent until you compare it to an elephant.

 

[cold blood]

Here's a bit from Barrons "tarantulas and other arachnids" describing just how much wandering tarantulas actually tend to do in the wild....the basis of this quote is locating t's in their wild habitat.:

"I have also noticed that you almost never find just one. Because tarantulas are not good travelers, they rarely wander far from their mothers burrow before settling down on their own. This means that you typically find tarantula burrows in local aggregations (sometimes called colonies)."

Only mature males tend to wander far, and that's only for a relatively short time before they succumb to death. I don't think anyone's trying to be rude or get an attitude, just offering their expertise based on years of experience with these creatures. I am glad you take the ownership of a living creature seriously, I hope we all do.

And the word I think you are looking for is refuge, add an extra e and it holds new meaning.

 

[klawfran3]

I'm not trying to anthropomorphize them, but it's completely logical to believe that these intelligent creatures are capable of some form of thought process similar to emotions. Which is why I was asking what an experienced owner who's studied or seen them in natural habitat would think about the cage size for a larger one. Purely because I'm used to smaller ones.

A tarantula's intelligence is closer to that of a cooked cabbage than it is to a dog. they have no emotions or conscious thoughts that we know of. they are creatures that run on instinct, and instinct alone. You said you wanted to keep T's since you were sixteen, and took two years to gather research. that is fine, even highly recommended! but what I don't get about that is if you really took all that time to research them, wouldn't you have read on multiple occasions that they don't really do much? they rarely go a legspan or two from their burrow, and don't explore. They don't even have good eyesight! how could exploring do anything except expose them to predators and the elements?
I get what you mean about how animals are sometimes kept in horrible conditions even though logic says they shouldnt be. take goldfish bowls for example. however, we DO know enough about these animals to know that they do absolutely nothing for most of the day except for wait at their burrows entrance for months on end, hoping (and I am NOT trying to anthropomorphize these. it just sounds better in conversation. again, they don't have conscious thought or a feeling of "hope") for that one single bug to walk by so they can have an overdue lunch.

 

[Destrabalare]

I'm thinking at this point my issue is just that I've only read things in English since I'm making it my first language and maybe I've misunderstood some things while reading up and gathering information. Plus the people on animal planet videos talk too funny for me to keep up. I'll just take every thing above as fact and move on. I'll just make sure they have enough room in the tank to move a leg spans away each direction and that should be fine then so I don't stress them out. I'll consider moving my active tarantulas to smaller containers for their benefit.

 

[Storm76]

Quite frankly I don't understand the problem.

Rules of thumb I apply and haven't had any ill experience with that:

For arboreals: 3x leg-span height, 2x legspan width
For terrestrials: 3x leg-span width, 1x legspan heigth

What's the big deal?

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

OP, perhaps if you'd asked for help as opposed to stating it was immoral, rude and wrong to not keep spiders in large aquariums, you'd have met less resistance. Everyone here is willing to help - but we are all snarky smart alecks too.

 

[klawfran3]

OP, perhaps if you'd asked for help as opposed to stating it was immoral, rude and wrong to not keep spiders in large aquariums, you'd have met less resistance. Everyone here is willing to help - but we are all snarky smart alecks too.

EXCUSE ME? I'm not a snarky smart aleck! you are! haha ;D

 

[ironwood]

I did not intend my post to be rude. if you took it that way I am sorry. just stating the facts as i know them about housing and how with some things bigger isnt always better