Appropriate tank/terrarium/enclosure sizes?

[Destrabalare]

I'm still new-ish to the hobby. Only about a year in. So I still only have smaller/starter tarantulas. However by the end of this year I hope to expand my collection to bigger tarantulas or ones that just generally have to have more care taken to them and their habitat. Things like a Oecilotheria Metallica, Theraphosa Blondi, and Pelinobius Muticus.

I keep all of my tarantulas in 10 gallon tanks because morally I feel like the size terrariums and tanks etc that people claim are okay are wrong. It's that way with a ton of pets people keep. Like beta fish having "beta bowls" when in reality one beta needs at least a 5 gallon tank. Or how people think it's humane to keep rats in tiny little rat homes or rabbits in little built houses when they actually need huge enclosures. Or even people who keep iguanas in little reptile terrariums when they need almost an entire room to themselves. So naturally I thought, this critter keeper and little plastic bins people claim are okay actually AREN'T okay, and is probably rude.
I heard a lot of people tell me " ____ tarantula is a hider, you're wasting money getting a 10 gallon tank! Mine is in a little cup and never comes out!" well maybe that was because it became depressed over it's surroundings and lack of space? Because I have a burrower who is very active in his 10 gallon tank, and has made tunnels through out the entire thing. He loves rearranging his plants and comes out pretty often to hang out.

Anyways, my point is, if I have 10 gallon tanks for smaller species, what do you personally think would be appropriate and nice for larger species like the ones I listed? Would a terrarium larger than a 10 gallon be okay, or would just a 15 tank be suitable do you think? Or do I bring it up a notch and get a 20 gallon? What would you think humanely gives a wild pet a good home? I mean these things weren't naturally meant to be pets, they had huge areas that were their terrariums. It's only fair to give them a nice amount of space to explore and stretch in.

I live in Louisiana, so keeping humidity in the tanks isn't hard no matter how big the tank. With out misting and just having their shallow water bowls the humidity usually stays anywhere from 70-80 and the temp never goes under 70 naturally. I have ways to keep the temp and humidity down for whatever species needs it as I have other pets who don't do well in high temps/humidity. They're in a separate room that's kept cooler and each tank/enclosure for whatever animal is kept at what it needs to be.

 

[fyic]

10gal for P.metallica should be fine
20+gal for T.blondi should work
As for the P.muticus you will need something that is more deep then anything....I have seen them in 20gal style tanks turned on there side to give the dig space

But each to there own .......I'm sure others will have some good input as well

Oh and I keep most of my T' s in kritter keepers as well as 5gal & 2.5gal tanks........works for me

 

[viper69]

After reading your tank treatise as big as you can make it. 50, 100gallons or even larger if you want.

 

[vespers]

I keep all of my tarantulas in 10 gallon tanks because morally I feel like the size terrariums and tanks etc that people claim are okay are wrong. It's that way with a ton of pets people keep. Like beta fish having "beta bowls" when in reality one beta needs at least a 5 gallon tank. Or how people think it's humane to keep rats in tiny little rat homes or rabbits in little built houses when they actually need huge enclosures. Or even people who keep iguanas in little reptile terrariums when they need almost an entire room to themselves. So naturally I thought, this critter keeper and little plastic bins people claim are okay actually AREN'T okay, and is probably rude.

Tarantulas aren't bettas, rats, rabbits, or iguanas. The comparisons are quite pointless.

I heard a lot of people tell me " ____ tarantula is a hider, you're wasting money getting a 10 gallon tank! Mine is in a little cup and never comes out!" well maybe that was because it became depressed over it's surroundings and lack of space?

Tarantulas don't become "depressed". You shouldn't anthropomorphize an arachnid.

Anyways, my point is, if I have 10 gallon tanks for smaller species, what do you personally think would be appropriate and nice for larger species like the ones I listed? Would a terrarium larger than a 10 gallon be okay, or would just a 15 tank be suitable do you think? Or do I bring it up a notch and get a 20 gallon? What would you think humanely gives a wild pet a good home??

Very few species require anything larger than a 10 gallon enclosure.

I mean these things weren't naturally meant to be pets

If that bothers you so much, why are you keeping them?

I'm still new-ish to the hobby.

Indeed. :coffee:

 

[JZC]

Tarantulas are generally pretty stationary. I have a big stirmi in a a 20 gallon and since she settled in, she pretty much stays in one spot unless she is being fed.

 

[ironwood]

I have to stick my nose in here and comment. Tho i don't know a great deal about Tarantulas as I have never owned one and am only just getting my own this week I do know something about space. being as T's are burrowers and solitary animals that rarely leave their dens unless they are males looking for a mate I am going to compare them to ball pythons. I know they arnt the same and don't compare but for this size issue I am going to anyways so please just bear with me as my knowledge with these snakes is greater than any other knowledge I contain as I have been keeping and breeding them for more than 25 years.

Ball pythons are native to Africa. Africa is Huge and since they survive in the wild then they would need big enclosures so they have room to explore and stretch out. This could not be further from the truth. Many people think oh look at my ball python always exploring his cage. he loves it and must be so happy. Wrong again. an active ball python is a stressed out ball python and thus unhappy. if your ball python spends the vast majority of its time under its hide and not coming out then you have a very happy snake. Perhaps your spiders restlessness and constant digging up his cage is also a sign of stress and unhappiness since in the wild i would assume they don't venture out in the open all that often what with all the predators out there.

It is true ball pythons live their entire wild lives in the huge wild that is Africa. however you have to look at the behavior of the animal and not just the environment they live in. In the Wild these snakes spend the vast majority of their time cooped up nice and tight inside termite mounds and other like dens where they can be tight and secure. they venture out only to look for a meal before retreating back into another den mound or burrow. so which do you think is the happier ball python? the one in a giant 55 gal tanks with lots of room who constantly explores or the one in a sterlite tub who crawls inside is dark secure hide and stays there for days on end? to me its obvious. we give these animals big tanks for us. because we think its what they want and that they are happy. more often than not we are wrong. again I don't know about tarantulas very much but with ball pythons the smaller the better within reason. from what I know about tarantulas I think they share this trait with the ball pythons. smaller is better, within reason. I hope this wasn't to confusing and that i didn't confuse the issue more. just giving my two cents in an area I am most familiar with. hope I helped

 

[CitizenNumber9]

I have to stick my nose in here and comment. Tho i don't know a great deal about Tarantulas as I have never owned one and am only just getting my own this week I do know something about space. being as T's are burrowers and solitary animals that rarely leave their dens unless they are males looking for a mate I am going to compare them to ball pythons. I know they arnt the same and don't compare but for this size issue I am going to anyways so please just bear with me as my knowledge with these snakes is greater than any other knowledge I contain as I have been keeping and breeding them for more than 25 years.

Ball pythons are native to Africa. Africa is Huge and since they survive in the wild then they would need big enclosures so they have room to explore and stretch out. This could not be further from the truth. Many people think oh look at my ball python always exploring his cage. he loves it and must be so happy. Wrong again. an active ball python is a stressed out ball python and thus unhappy. if your ball python spends the vast majority of its time under its hide and not coming out then you have a very happy snake. Perhaps your spiders restlessness and constant digging up his cage is also a sign of stress and unhappiness since in the wild i would assume they don't venture out in the open all that often what with all the predators out there.

It is true ball pythons live their entire wild lives in the huge wild that is Africa. however you have to look at the behavior of the animal and not just the environment they live in. In the Wild these snakes spend the vast majority of their time cooped up nice and tight inside termite mounds and other like dens where they can be tight and secure. they venture out only to look for a meal before retreating back into another den mound or burrow. so which do you think is the happier ball python? the one in a giant 55 gal tanks with lots of room who constantly explores or the one in a sterlite tub who crawls inside is dark secure hide and stays there for days on end? to me its obvious. we give these animals big tanks for us. because we think its what they want and that they are happy. more often than not we are wrong. again I don't know about tarantulas very much but with ball pythons the smaller the better within reason. from what I know about tarantulas I think they share this trait with the ball pythons. smaller is better, within reason. I hope this wasn't to confusing and that i didn't confuse the issue more. just giving my two cents in an area I am most familiar with. hope I helped

+1 This is the reason for the most part that we supply hides for our tarantulas. They like to have a nice, small place to hide. Surfing the boards almost every day, I've learned a lot of facts as well as other people's personal experiences. One of such experiences is this: bigger enclosure = tough time finding food. Another thing I've learned is that bigger enclosures, especially if you plan on having many tarantulas at some point, are more expensive. You have to buy more substrate, more furnishings (if you want your T to feel secure) and not to mention the cost for the enclosure itself. Over all, you are spending way more money for a setup that the T doesn't even really like.

Here's a nice formula I've gathered:
For a terrestrial T
Length = 3 to 4x DLS
Width = 2 to 3x DLS
Height = 1 to 2x DLS

For an aboreal T
Length and Width = 2 to 3x DLS
Height = 3 to 4x DLS

 

[viper69]

Where did you find those guidelines- linky linky?

 

[CitizenNumber9]

Where did you find those guidelines- linky linky?

I gathered them from my collective reading

It's what I've noticed most people recommend more or less, I just put it all together in one spot :giggle:

 

[klawfran3]

Tarantulas don't become "depressed". You shouldn't anthropomorphize an arachnid.

I feel like this is one of the main beginner mistakes. most people when starting out feel like for a tarantula to be "happy" it needs lots of space to roam, like the OP in this thread. I mean, there is nothing wrong with providing a big cage for one, don't get me wrong, but it is a total complete waste of space. I used to have a B. Smithi in a 15 gallon tub, and to be honest, it never wandered more than a leg span from it's hide.

Tarantulas don't move much. they don't need to take walks, they don't really need exercise. being out in the open for them is a pretty ballsy move. a lot of predators are always looking for a delicious, high protein snack.

now there are also exceptions to this rule. obligate burrowers usually need a lot more room to burrow. many high webbing species ( eg. chromatopelma cyaneopubescens and pterinochilus murinus) also fare much better with a larger area of space. it gives them more room to maneuver and also make bigger webs.

anthropomorphizing a tarantula can be a huge detriment to the hobby. granted I have not heard of a study ever done on something like this, but I can assume from a bite report or two and also a lot of the questions posted here, people assume a tarantula "likes" them and "enjoys being handled." this usually entices people to try handling their spiders more, which of course, will lead to a bite eventually. on the G. Rosea bite report thread there was a post about how their spider bit them because it was "cranky they were gone for so long." this is actually a perfect example of how the mindset of tarantulas as having emotions can cause people to get injured. it's only a matter of time before something with high venom like a P muticus or something along those lines bites someone because they thought it was trying to play with them. and we all know what would happen if the media gets a hold of a story like that...

___EDIT___
for some reason I cannot find the bite report post. I guess I should have checked it was still there before I posted it.... hmm...

oh well... I assume some of you people have read it before it was removed or something like that.

 

[cold blood]

I also prefer a larger enclosure, but I do realize the extra room I provide is for me and my asthetics, not really for the t. I like to be forced to search as natural of an environment as I can, but again, its more for me.

A larger enclosure actually makes it harder for your t to locate its prey and also gives the prey many more places to safely hide or evade. Result is, during many (if not all) feeds you will need to be more hands on in getting the feed to move to the right place to be eaten. This often means moving items as the prey continually hides or evades and directing it with a brush or something (which will get hit on occasion, as the t feels it which can disrupt its feed. This can be disruptive to the t that's really sensitive to any extra vibrations and movements. Also you won't be as able to just leave the prey item to be caught if its not taken right away, as its more likely to find a good hiding place and you may not know if it was eaten or if its just hiding, now come molt time you are blissfully unaware there is a now potentially dangerous prey item in with your suddenly vulnerable t.

A tarantula can have an environmentally enriched enclosure that is actually quite small...everything is made easier for both you and your t when less room is given IMO.

 

[jgod790]

I apreciate your enthusiasim, but your more likely to stress out a T by making its enclosure to big, rather then to small. Tarantullas would rather have a good feel of their home, and easier to find prey, over enough space to park the car and jog a marathon. A tarantula that feels safe, and has a good feeling for its surrounding, and has good food and water source, is a happy tarantula. I'm not saying put a 8 inch t stirmi in a 5 gallon tank, but putting a 3 or 4 inch burrowing species in a 5 gallon tank will be just as, if not happier then one of the same size in a ten gallon. And for the most part, you will never need anything bigger then a ten gallon. A full grown t stirmi could do just fine in a 10 gallon. Now when my t stirmi is full grown, I will most likely give it 15 or 20 gallon tank, but your looking at this all wrong. A sling will be much happier and feel safer in a pill vival rather then a 5 gallon tank. For small, under 5 gallon is fine, 5 gallon for medium, 10 gallon for large, 15 to 20 for giants.

 

[LordWaffle]

Always keep in mind that tarantulas are ambush predators. They aren't wolves or lions. They lie in wait until something is oblivious enough to walk within reach and then they pounce. Often literally. The reason they don't require as much space as say, a sulcata tortoise in proportion to their size is they don't generally wander far from their burrow, hide, etc. The reason they can go so long without eating has to do with how their metabolism functions. While they're sitting there waiting, they expend very little energy, and since they aren't endotherms, they don't have to use stored energy to maintain body heat. Some species are more active than others, and then there are variances in activity in each individual T, but they're definitely not going to act the same way as a reptile in a terrarium or a dog in a kennel. They aren't even aware that they're in an enclosure. That's not something they are capable of comprehending.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

You're asking advice about enclosure size from people who you already ignore and consider immoral when it comes to enclosure size? Ok. Poecis need at least an enclosure sized to house a tree. You can get away with a room size enclosure for Theraphosa.

 

[SpiritScale]

To risk sounding like a broken record and repeating what's been said don't anthropomorphize tarantulas...or any animal.
As a snake/lizard keeper I run into this argument all the time.
Your hang-ups about enclosure size are based on your feelings and your desires, which you assume are universal to all creatures.
But the reality is these are ambush predators who don't and wouldn't spend the energy unless necessary.
Large elaborate housing doesn't mean 'free happy space to wander' it means 'stressful and hard to find food'.
Not to mention keep clean.

YES, there is such a thing as too small----but the 'guidelines' CitizenNumber9 posted are good and what I use with my T's.
I spend a fair bit of time watching my T's (I find it sorta therapeutic) and lemme tell you---they don't move much. Wander a bit, play pet rock, get some water, play pet rock...you get the idea.

IMO you want large enough to hunt in AND large enough to work in (it's a pain in the arse to be working in teeny sling vials where there isn't much room between the sling and the tweezers while you're trying to remove bits of old food, or where the T is right next to everything so removing the water bowl means bolting spiders etc) but small enough to be secure and easy to manage.

 

[ClosetCollector]

+ 1 to everything said about enclosures and size. When I first started keeping T's I thought the same things about the size and what I thought was going to make my T "happy". I thought jeez they cannot be happy sitting in those deli cups, truth is they don't care. A place to hide, something to web up and a bit of food happening by on occasion that is all they need. Aesthetically the huge elaborate enclosures look nice but that is for us, the keepers not them. Ill admit I get a bit elaborate in my enclosures creating mini environments complete with all the amenities of a huge enclosure, but again that is for my viewing pleasure.

Happy in the world of keeping T's to me means what am I happy looking at, what gives me joy.... My G. Rosea, Porteri at this point I am just unsure what to call her, but anyhow has a huge elaborate set up in a ten gallon tank (my first adult T) Lots of plants super awesome hides, all that good stuff she spent about 6 weeks laying web inside the entire enclosure, I thought well she must be super "happy" uh huh, right..... since then she has retreated to her flower pot hide and uses all of 6 inches of this awesome set up from the flower pot to the water dish and back.

So I guess what I am getting at is what everyone else has been saying, save yourself the time, money and headache of trying to find space for all those huge elaborate set ups and if it must be aesthetically pleasing do it on a smaller scale so you are "happy" looking at it. Or your not feeling bad or whatever the case may be.....

 

[Curious jay]

As everyone said how I feel about the situation ill come with a different approach.

How about you buy yourself the large enclosure, and an adult tarantula to go inside said enclosure. Own it for 6 months or so then I'm sure you will see where everyone is coming from.


Web I purchased my first GBB I thought big webber will appreciate a big enclosure... I couldn't have been more wrong. Once it settled it stayed in one small corner behind a couple of fake leaves.... Pretty much used 1/10 of the tank I gave it.....

 

[Bender]

OP, you'll learn something quick, choose your words wisely on this forum. Im new myself, but what I do know is they're your animals....do what makes you happy. You can put them in an enclosure that takes up an entire wall if you want. Or keep them in a deli cup.....neither way is cruel. If you have a huge collection, the entire wall per enclosure doesnt work. If you have 4 T's and thats all you plan to have....well you could take a room and put each on its own wall. : )

It also depends on what your looking to get out of your collection. Do you want the enjoyment of taking care of animals and you dont mind how they look? Or do you want to show off the housing and your beautiful T's?

The answers to these questions change from person to person, so its hard to ask this kind of question...the only answer you need to take from this though, is that, no, it's not cruel or beneficial either way you choose(small or large housing)

FYI this is my opinion(situation) : I just received a P metallica and P regalis today, they are my 2nd and 3rd T, my first passed of old age a few weeks ago.....My two pokies are all I plan on keeping until the day they pass. They are both slings now and in large deli cups. They will both end up in 10 gallon tanks, and the regalis possibly getting a 20 gallon.

Hope this helps, and good luck OP

 

[Uberkraken]

I recently upgraded my enclosure, formerly an opaque "cereal container" with 2 holes (2") drilled on each side with a nice big handle, to a 10 gallon fish tank which I crafted a clear plastic hinged lid for an upright setup. I knew that the tank was too big for the juvenile A Versi (3"). I knew the prey items would be harder for the T to find and I figured its partly because I want a "nice" setup and partly because the T would grow into it eventually, or that the investment would pay off for future, bigger T's. My A Versi has made a tube web in the upper corner of the tank and completely enclosed itself. It hardly ever comes out of its 8 inch tubule. The nice hollow log goes completely unused, for now. You could easily put a 2" T in a 100 gallon tank and the T will do what is inherent to its nature. It will find a suitable location, and build a proportionately appropriate home of its own, and rarely leave. If you are a serious breeder you'll want to consider the spacial requirements a very important factor, for a cost effective setup to house hundreds of spiders. The ratio listed above by CitizenNumber9 seems appropriate, or you can use the vendor recommended sizes for T specific enclosures like those at jamiestarantulas.com. These sizes are based on professional experience. For now I am happy to keep my juvenile T in an oversized tank for the sake of convenience. It maintains its humidity longer every time I spray it, which is heavily every 3 days or so, or in the winter I will spray it every day or two because the air is so dry here in New Hampshire. I am pretty sure my A Versi would be fine "spatially" for at least another year if I put it back into its "cereal box" enclosure.

 

[z32upgrader]

They aren't even aware that they're in an enclosure. That's not something they are capable of comprehending.

Try telling that to my P. cancerides. He is constantly looking for a way to escape, and to quote Jurassic Park,
"Ellie: The fences are electrified though right?
Guy: That's right but they never attack the same place twice.
They were testing the fences for weaknesses systematically.
They remember."
Obligatory sound clip