Aphonopelma moderatum

[zonbonzovi]

Not too hard to figure out where the WC's are coming from after searching the For Sale thread. There ARE slings available through various dealers- perhaps it would be helpful to point out where the CB's can be found? Or am I just going to get the mighty mod hammer dropped on me from the heavens...

 

[Mad Hatter]

Not too hard to figure out where the WC's are coming from after searching the For Sale thread. There ARE slings available through various dealers- perhaps it would be helpful to point out where the CB's can be found? Or am I just going to get the mighty mod hammer dropped on me from the heavens...

Why would you get the ban-hammer for that post? I see nothing wrong with it... maybe I need to refresh my memory with another look at the Rules.

Good idea to point out some places to acquire CB slings.

Kyle, I think I understand your point best from this post here:

I don't have a problem with people finding an area and then taking one for themselves for their own collection. Although, I don't do so just because I know where they are, so if I wanted to observe them, I could just drive right down the road. The problem comes when, as Miz put it, people look at them as free $50 bills lying on the ground. I thought about it and I really don't see that much demand for San Diego T's and probably only die-hard Aphonopelma fans would buy them. There are much better looking ones out there. I think behlei and moderatum have bigger problems.

My rant really wasn't a call to action. It was just as I stated, a rant. There isn't anything anyone can do without some serious work and dedication to prevent it from happening. I thought maybe if a few people read my thread, they would think twice about buying WC.

I guess my point earlier was there in that statement you made, which I highlighted in red.

That's all I'm saying... and that I trust that hamfoto would not have pointed this species out in particular unless there was good reason to.

 

[What]

There ARE slings available through various dealers- perhaps it would be helpful to point out where the CB's can be found?

That would be a good thing, but Scott/Debby will have to OK it, otherwise it would be advertising...which isnt allowed in posts.

 

[jayefbe]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think that many more animals have died by the blade of a bulldozer than have ever been removed by collectors. I hate to play devil's advocate here, but its a fact. Unless someone can figure out a way for humans to stop reproducing, there won't be anything left on this planet. At least when they're in captivity, they're not at risk of being destroyed.

Conservationists and commercial collectors are both selfish in their own ways. Conservationists want the earth to stay exactly how it is because that's what they know and are resistant to change. I'm sure the dinosaurs didn't want that giant asteroid to destroy them, but it happened anyway. We can prolong the demise of the planet, but it will inevitably be destroyed. Humans are just accelerating the process.

1) Humans are going to cause the next mass extinction. Photosynthetic bacteria released oxygen into the atmosphere that killed off the vast majority of life on the planet. Humans are releasing carbon back into the atmosphere and it will eventually do the same.

2) I know with dart frogs, collecting for the pet trade is a primary cause of plummeting wild populations. I can't say it is the same for T's, but plenty of new world species live in the same habitats as darts and could be prone to the same collecting.

 

[Drachenjager]

the way to end it is if people will stop buying WC and raise slings, even though it takes forever and a day to get these things to 2 " lol
but seriously, if people continue to be impatient, and continue to buy WC juvies and adults instead of the slings that many of our ranks breed, well this will keep on keeping on.

 

[hamfoto]

BUMPED...to keep this in people's minds.

C

 

[Asti]

Is bumping four years later a thing?

I found this thread while looking up info on this species, so Google is doing its job well. I'm big on ethics when it comes to pets so it's good to get more info on the situation concerning their natural habitat.

Here in Europe it seems some Aphonopelma species are available, but the A. moderatum and A. iodus, which both caught my eye, seem to be a lot trickier to get.

I bought other adult T's of other species before, one from another hobbyist and one from a trade fair with a CITES paper stating it was CB. The reason I don't just buy slings is that I'm going through a midlife crisis and realize I'm not going to live forever, so if I want to enjoy the gorgeous big adults I am safer buying them as is. Hah. Only sort of kidding and I do have slings too.

Anyway, bump and let's keep this hobby sustainable and ethical.

(And if anyone knows a source that ships CB A. moderatum's or iodus's to the Netherlands then I'm all ears)

 

[Matt Man]

Is bumping four years later a thing?

I found this thread while looking up info on this species, so Google is doing its job well. I'm big on ethics when it comes to pets so it's good to get more info on the situation concerning their natural habitat.

Here in Europe it seems some Aphonopelma species are available, but the A. moderatum and A. iodus, which both caught my eye, seem to be a lot trickier to get.

I bought other adult T's of other species before, one from another hobbyist and one from a trade fair with a CITES paper stating it was CB. The reason I don't just buy slings is that I'm going through a midlife crisis and realize I'm not going to live forever, so if I want to enjoy the gorgeous big adults I am safer buying them as is. Hah. Only sort of kidding and I do have slings too.

Anyway, bump and let's keep this hobby sustainable and ethical.

(And if anyone knows a source that ships CB A. moderatum's or iodus's to the Netherlands then I'm all ears)

there are people in the US that are starting to attempt captive breeding programs for various Aphonopelma. Hopefully this will put a dent in the WC industry. Every person I know who has a program releases some of the slings back into the wild, so from my personal knowledge, there are people trying to do the right thing

 

[TLSizzle]

Glad to know this information as I've recently put this species on my 'want' list. I did not know they were WC and putting the numbers in danger.
Guess I'll wait till things are better balanced out for CB sellers.

 

[Asti]

Found a seller in Europe, Poland I think, who is selling A. moderatum slings for a hefty price. Since they're slings I assume they are bred, but I sent a message to ask. I never bred with T's myself so it would be a huge gamble to order a few, hope one of them at least is female and try to breed in a few years ... and also, I don't like how genetic lines get mixed and muddled so first off it would be crossing fingers that this seller is actually being honest about it being moderatum right? Choices choices ... I do love the idea of contributing to CB within the hobby though.

It's odd to think as well that to me all the T's are 'exotic' but for you folks in the US they just wander around locally. I've got a friend living in Surinam ... man the stuff they have just walking around in that country, gah! So cool.

 

[Matt Man]

yes, T's that are local in certain areas of America are considered exotics in Europe and fetch high prices. That demand is what is driving the interest in captive breeding of Aphonopelma

 

[Arachnophobphile]

I know alot of the online dealers that are selling WC juveniles and on up in the U.S.

I do not do business with about 90% of online sellers as I personally called them out on it. Oh yes.....the majority are very guilty.

I know this thread started in 2009 but it's still going on today.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Is bumping four years later a thing?

I found this thread while looking up info on this species, so Google is doing its job well. I'm big on ethics when it comes to pets so it's good to get more info on the situation concerning their natural habitat.

Here in Europe it seems some Aphonopelma species are available, but the A. moderatum and A. iodus, which both caught my eye, seem to be a lot trickier to get.

I bought other adult T's of other species before, one from another hobbyist and one from a trade fair with a CITES paper stating it was CB. The reason I don't just buy slings is that I'm going through a midlife crisis and realize I'm not going to live forever, so if I want to enjoy the gorgeous big adults I am safer buying them as is. Hah. Only sort of kidding and I do have slings too.

Anyway, bump and let's keep this hobby sustainable and ethical.

(And if anyone knows a source that ships CB A. moderatum's or iodus's to the Netherlands then I'm all ears)

I think it’s a relevant enough thread to bump 14 years later yes …
Wc tarantulas reduce wild stocks and cause extinction.
If you follow the dollar wc Ts are still being captured for profit .

 

[old collector]

I have been running across threads like this, about this species for years and years. I pulled up a pic of the little gold spider this morning for nostalgia purposes, and as always I found another thread about the over collecting of them. And yes I realize this is an extremely old thread.the last one I had died after 22 years in captivity,she was a big beautiful female, super orange red with black joints.( She was a super hottie compared to most lol)I just want anyone to know that I believe the conservation of all species is important , and protection of very endangered species is a must! But I also believe it's the right of people to have the non endangered species if they are responsible and know what they are doing. Let's face it , every CB species of any animal was originated from WC stock, Period! What I'm getting at here , is it's never just black and white, everyone wants to blame over collection of this species for it's rapid decline in population. However I rarely ever hear anyone mention the flood in 98 that killed 6 people, and decimated the biggest populations in the main areas that our precious little gold spider was found. I know this because my old business partner from way back then and I were the two biggest and I guess from the beginning post that started this thread (nefarious) collectors and shippers of them in the early to mid 90s.im no longer in the live animal business and haven't been for about 20 years..Yes collectors , and the fact they are an armadillos favorite food did definitely impact the local populations , however for every spider we collected, 25 - 50 more were left behind within 60 feet in any direction of the animal collected. Usually due to very small size they were left to grow up. But where the year before the flood I could literally collect as many as I wanted in a day, right behind the house I rented in that area , which was very sparse, patchy clumps of dessert grass , cactus and Spanish swords, ECT. Was now a sea of wild grasses as far as the eye could see because of that heavy rain and flooding, the area had really not seen any significant rain in nearly 7 years before the flood.., making it nearly impossible to even find a burrow , much less coax a tarantula from all the new grass around the hole, where before any grass would normally be feet away from a hole, just dessert dirt and small rock.Where anytime before the flood, I could walk that area and find anywhere from 5 - 20 burrows in just a 200 sq ft area. I have not been back there in nearly two decades, I really do hope in all that time the population in that area has managed to come to what it once was . I know I'm not very popular having once been the business partner of a commercial collector, importer and exporter , but I was younger in my 20s and am now in my 50s , we all can look back at our younger selves and wish maybe we had chosen different paths in our lives, this is one of things for me. But I do want people to know the populations the year before in that area were awesome, I know because I took a 6 hour drive back there to collect 3 Goldie's for me , my niece and my nephew. This literally only took me 30 or 40 minutes to find 3 big beautiful spiders, and I coaxed spiders out of a dozen burrows in that time until I found 3 of the nicer ones. I went back a year after the flood to buy an old 1950 Chevy truck from my old landlord, I took a walk behind the house to check out the my old hunting grounds, with all the new tall dessert grass covering the property I looked for 3 1/2 hours and only found 48 burrows. It was heartbreaking, and no , I didn't take any home with me, every spider that was still there, needed to stay there and repopulate. All I'm trying to say is the drastic decline of a local specific animal is not always over collecting, sometimes mother nature plays her hand and wins the game.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

I have been running across threads like this, about this species for years and years. I pulled up a pic of the little gold spider this morning for nostalgia purposes, and as always I found another thread about the over collecting of them. And yes I realize this is an extremely old thread.the last one I had died after 22 years in captivity,she was a big beautiful female, super orange red with black joints.( She was a super hottie compared to most lol)I just want anyone to know that I believe the conservation of all species is important , and protection of very endangered species is a must! But I also believe it's the right of people to have the non endangered species if they are responsible and know what they are doing. Let's face it , every CB species of any animal was originated from WC stock, Period! What I'm getting at here , is it's never just black and white, everyone wants to blame over collection of this species for it's rapid decline in population. However I rarely ever hear anyone mention the flood in 98 that killed 6 people, and decimated the biggest populations in the main areas that our precious little gold spider was found. I know this because my old business partner from way back then and I were the two biggest and I guess from the beginning post that started this thread (nefarious) collectors and shippers of them in the early to mid 90s.im no longer in the live animal business and haven't been for about 20 years..Yes collectors , and the fact they are an armadillos favorite food did definitely impact the local populations , however for every spider we collected, 25 - 50 more were left behind within 60 feet in any direction of the animal collected. Usually due to very small size they were left to grow up. But where the year before the flood I could literally collect as many as I wanted in a day, right behind the house I rented in that area , which was very sparse, patchy clumps of dessert grass , cactus and Spanish swords, ECT. Was now a sea of wild grasses as far as the eye could see because of that heavy rain and flooding, the area had really not seen any significant rain in nearly 7 years before the flood.., making it nearly impossible to even find a burrow , much less coax a tarantula from all the new grass around the hole, where before any grass would normally be feet away from a hole, just dessert dirt and small rock.Where anytime before the flood, I could walk that area and find anywhere from 5 - 20 burrows in just a 200 sq ft area. I have not been back there in nearly two decades, I really do hope in all that time the population in that area has managed to come to what it once was . I know I'm not very popular having once been the business partner of a commercial collector, importer and exporter , but I was younger in my 20s and am now in my 50s , we all can look back at our younger selves and wish maybe we had chosen different paths in our lives, this is one of things for me. But I do want people to know the populations the year before in that area were awesome, I know because I took a 6 hour drive back there to collect 3 Goldie's for me , my niece and my nephew. This literally only took me 30 or 40 minutes to find 3 big beautiful spiders, and I coaxed spiders out of a dozen burrows in that time until I found 3 of the nicer ones. I went back a year after the flood to buy an old 1950 Chevy truck from my old landlord, I took a walk behind the house to check out the my old hunting grounds, with all the new tall dessert grass covering the property I looked for 3 1/2 hours and only found 48 burrows. It was heartbreaking, and no , I didn't take any home with me, every spider that was still there, needed to stay there and repopulate. All I'm trying to say is the drastic decline of a local specific animal is not always over collecting, sometimes mother nature plays her hand and wins the game.

Yes I agree natural disasters do in fact decimate an animal's natural habitat. I'm aware of U.S. business practices in the U.S. tarantula trade. Always have to start somewhere and that somewhere always has to start with wild caught. It's just a fact that's part of arachnoculture.

There is a member here that currently lives in the Rio Grande area. He commented on witnessing the pillage going on in the Rio Grande of A. moderatum.

Alot of those T's are being field collected for the European market. There are U.S. dealers selling them here and all are wc.

One of the reasons I myself cannot find any captive bred slings is it's incredibly difficult to get a fertile sac in captivity.

I've been asking around to try and find any breeding projects going on with A. moderatum and I'm coming up blank.

So, I am thinking of trying to plan a breeding project myself. This is a species of Aphonopelma that more effort needs to be done to have success with. I can't even find anyone that has bred them in the past to get some notes from. Like husbandry up to the time of pairing and after up until the female lays the sac. Those notes are crucial in figuring out what to try different.

It's worth the effort A. moderatum is one of the most stunning tarantulas in the Aphonopelma genus.

It is my favorite Aphonopelma so I have to at least try and also contribute to arachnoculture. Even if I fail on getting a fertile sac I'll have the notes on my husbandry.

I know of a female for sale.

 

[Kada]

there are people in the US that are starting to attempt captive breeding programs for various Aphonopelma. Hopefully this will put a dent in the WC industry. Every person I know who has a program releases some of the slings back into the wild, so from my personal knowledge, there are people trying to do the right thing

One would hope they are following proper reintroduction protocols, strict quarantine procedures, proper identification, well laid out breeding programs etc... generally speaking, despite the good intentions, this should be frowned upon (releasing captive specimens into the wild) as it is more likely than not most people doing this are not qualified nor have the resources to do it properly.

 

[Matt Man]

One would hope they are following proper reintroduction protocols, strict quarantine procedures, proper identification, well laid out breeding programs etc... generally speaking, despite the good intentions, this should be frowned upon (releasing captive specimens into the wild) as it is more likely than not most people doing this are not qualified nor have the resources to do it properly.

the people I know doing it are highly qualified and are quite disciplined about it, down to locality, so that the captive bred line emanates from exactly the region where the parents or grandparents originated. Even on species like A . chalcodes or A. anax, there are regional morphs where phenotypes are different.

as for other comments, let's also not forget habitat loss, which does more to damage wild populations than anything. My office sits right next to both A. steindachneri and A, eutylenum habitats and it saddens me when I see habitats getting mowed for a new road for gravel trucks