Aphonopelma chalcodes curling legs and twitching

[UralOwl]

I've had my A. chalcodes for nearly 10 years now, she was the second spider I ever got. She last molted about 3 months ago now, and ever since she's been a bit on the weird side. She's been more "grumpy" than usual, flicking hairs a lot for no apparent reason, hovering over her water dish a lot, and refusing to eat. It's not the first time my spiders have had a personality change after a molt, so I wasn't too worried at first, but about a month ago, I noticed her abdomen was getting very small. I've tried leaving crickets in her enclosure for a whole week and she still won't eat them.

The past few days have been the worst, she's starting curling her legs under her body, and randomly twitching/shaking. Despite this, she has still been moving around her enclosure a lot, usually sitting above or near her water dish or in her hide. She still likes to flick hairs at me too whenever I open the enclosure to change her water or otherwise check on her.

Today she's been looking real bad, curling nearly all of her legs and twitching far more, so I've put her in an ICU. Is there anything else I can do? I am unsure why she's behaving like this. I know she's old, but other spiders that I've had die of old age usually tend to just pass away slowly, they don't suddenly become more active, moving around their enclosure constantly while curling their legs, and I certainly don't remember them ever shaking/twitching. I've had two mature males just pass away in normal resting positions as well, no legs curled.

It's really upsetting to see her suffering, especially when I've known this spider nearly half my life. The first spider I ever got is still doing just fine. I am unsure of their ages though, but they were both adults/sub-adults when I got them.

Edit: I've also just noticed that sometimes she will stand up, and start slowly "falling" to one side, before suddenly correcting herself again. It almost looks like someone falling asleep and then quickly waking themselves up once they realise they're about to fall over.

It seems like this could be DKS, which I've experienced before with my spiders. It's usually a 50/50 chance of survival after being in an ICU for a few days in my experience. When I've had spiders with DKS symptoms before though, their behaviour tends to be more erratic, whereas I'd say my A. chalcodes has more "drunken" behaviour.

I don't know what could have caused the symptoms, my other spiders are all fine, I never use pesticides in or around the house and always just feed my spiders store bought crickets.

 

[PidderPeets]

Hovering the water dish usually means there's not enough moisture in the substrate or that it's dehydrated. That said, ICUs can be very dangerous and may cause your tarantula to waste vital energy trying to get out of it. I would put her back in her enclosure add a bit of moisture to the substrate and put her mouthparts in the water dish if she'll stay there. Dehydration sounds like a very likely cause to me.

Do you still have her molt? Did she properly molt out her sucking stomach? Failure to molt that out properly would make her unable to eat or drink, which could cause the problems she's having

 

[UralOwl]

Hovering the water dish usually means there's not enough moisture in the substrate or that it's dehydrated. That said, ICUs can be very dangerous and may cause your tarantula to waste vital energy trying to get out of it. I would put her back in her enclosure add a bit of moisture to the substrate and put her mouthparts in the water dish if she'll stay there. Dehydration sounds like a very likely cause to me.

Do you still have her molt? Did she properly molt out her sucking stomach? Failure to molt that out properly would make her unable to eat or drink, which could cause the problems she's having

I did try lightly soaking half of the substrate for the past week or so, but she just stayed away from it. She's always had access to water from her dish but despite hanging around it a lot, I'm unsure if she's drinking from it. She doesn't seem to be moving around much in the ICU at the moment.

Unfortunately, I threw away the molt as it was crumbling to pieces when I took it out. In hindsight, I should have checked then, but it didn't even occur to me that she could fail to molt her sucking stomach as I've never had this happen to any of my Ts before. I'll keep that in mind for future molts with my other Ts at least, but it's not looking hopeful for my A. chalcodes.

 

[EtienneN]

I agree it sounds like a failure to moult her sucking stomach. One thing you could try as a last ditch effort would be to cup her in your hand and pipette a drop of water onto her mouth and see if she is able to suck it in. That's the only 'last ditch' effort I can think of right now.

 

[viper69]

Did she properly molt out her sucking stomach? Failure to molt that out properly would make her unable to eat or drink

I've always known this, but never had it happen. What does it look like? I take it the little crescent shaped object in the middle of the legs would be missing if it failed to molt? Did a quick google search.

Checking for the sucking stomach on your molts

I noticed we don’t have a thread on this topic, so if anyone has further experiences with this and whether or not their specimen survived the ordeal please share in this thread. Hopefully we can compile some useful data for the future. Although this has not happened to me yet, thankfully, many...

arachnoboards.com

 

[PidderPeets]

I've always known this, but never had it happen. What does it look like? I take it the little crescent shaped object in the middle of the legs would be missing if it failed to molt? Did a quick google search.

Checking for the sucking stomach on your molts

I noticed we don’t have a thread on this topic, so if anyone has further experiences with this and whether or not their specimen survived the ordeal please share in this thread. Hopefully we can compile some useful data for the future. Although this has not happened to me yet, thankfully, many...

arachnoboards.com

Thankfully I've never experienced it myself, but I imagine it would result in either a smooth area instead of the stomach or an actual rip in the molt, depending on what actually went wrong. I always check my molts before tossing them, so if I ever encounter it first hand, I'll make a thread and post pictures.

 

[viper69]

Thankfully I've never experienced it myself, but I imagine it would result in either a smooth area instead of the stomach or an actual rip in the molt, depending on what actually went wrong. I always check my molts before tossing them, so if I ever encounter it first hand, I'll make a thread and post pictures.

Same

Here's a nice anatomy page, with images provided by one of our members.

Pagina niet gevonden – Theraphosidae

www.theraphosidae.be

 

[Ungoliant]

I've always known this, but never had it happen. What does it look like? I take it the little crescent shaped object in the middle of the legs would be missing if it failed to molt?

It would be missing if the sucking stomach did not molt. However, I wouldn't necessarily panic if I didn't see it on the molt, as this piece is very delicate and can easily break off after a successful molt.

 

[Jess S]

Did she try to kill the prey offered or just show no interest?

From speaking to other people who've had specimens die from sucking stomach issues, they've told me that the tarantula nails the feeder insect, tries to eat it, then leaves it discarded. In fact, at first they think it's eating fine but on further investigation usually find a pile of dead discarded insects.

I am leaning to old age or some other cause.

 

[viper69]

It would be missing if the sucking stomach did not molt. However, I wouldn't necessarily panic if I didn't see it on the molt, as this piece is very delicate and can easily break off after a successful molt.

Correct on both. I can tell from the images I've seen that it could be torn and gone etc.

 

[UralOwl]

Did she try to kill the prey offered or just show no interest?

From speaking to other people who've had specimens die from sucking stomach issues, they've told me that the tarantula nails the feeder insect, tries to eat it, then leaves it discarded. In fact, at first they think it's eating fine but on further investigation usually find a pile of dead discarded insects.

I am leaning to old age or some other cause.

She mostly showed no interest, sometimes she would kinda "chase" it for a bit, then lose interest. Sometimes she'd slam the ground where the cricket was moving as well, but it seemed more like a defensive strike than her trying to eat it.

Unfortunately, she passed away 2 days ago overnight. Her legs were completely curled, she was completely limp and was already starting to smell. I bought her back in 2010-2011 as a sub-adult, she was apparently wild caught. At least she lived a decently long life, but it's a shame to see her go after so long.

I lost my first adult female to old age 2-3 years ago now. When she was slowly passing, she would usually just stay in a corner of her enclosure a lot, would barely move, had no interest in eating, and then just finally passed. There wasn't any weird shaking or other symptoms like with my A. chalcodes.

My Grammostola pulchra is getting on in age as well. I noticed she has some "scars" on her exoskeleton ever since her last molt about a year ago, and she sometimes seems to find it hard holding crickets now (she is definitely eating them though, and is still my fattest tarantula), and she sometimes seems to be going a bit "senile" for lack of a better term, as sometimes I'll chuck a cricket in, and she'll swing around in the opposite direction of where it is before realising her mistake. My adult male G. pulchripes did similar things in his post ultimate molt old age. It's kinda sad seeing most of my spiders getting so old, but I did get most of them 7-10 years ago now. I bought my most recent spider 3 years ago, my P. metallica sling who's now grown into a fine blue beauty.

Out of curiosity, for anyone that has had a spider not molt its sucking stomach before, is there anything you can actually do to help them survive, or is it just a case of hoping they hold on until their next molt? I'm still unsure if this is what killed my A. chalcodes, but if this does ever happen to any of my other Ts, it would be nice to know if there's anything I could do to potentially save them.

 

[Jess S]

If she was a sub adult 10 years ago, agree that it doesn't sound like she would be at the end of her lifespan.

Just thought I'd share some thoughts.

If one of my t's had this problem, I'd probably keep the substrate moist to try to slow dehydration as much as possible. I know this is controversial, but this is the one circumstance (preventing dehydration) where an ICU could be considered, as long as it's well ventilated. I think I'd try to provide care in its own enclosure first and see how it goes.

If it is a dry species, I don't think there's much choice, you'd still have to moisten the substrate. I'd probably keep a little spot dry for it to stand on.

There's not a lot else you can really do other than hoping you can get it to a moult.

 

[Ungoliant]

Out of curiosity, for anyone that has had a spider not molt its sucking stomach before, is there anything you can actually do to help them survive, or is it just a case of hoping they hold on until their next molt? I'm still unsure if this is what killed my A. chalcodes, but if this does ever happen to any of my other Ts, it would be nice to know if there's anything I could do to potentially save them.

I have not personally experienced this, but since they can't eat or drink, you just have to hope that they have enough of a reserve to get through another molt.

I have not personally experienced this, but since they can't eat or drink, you just have to hope that they have enough of a reserve to get through another molt.

Doing what you can to reduce the amount of water lost could be helpful, but you have to balance that with the need to avoid creating a moist environment that is conducive to bacteria growth.

Here's my theory about spiders dying in moist conditions. I use the word theory in the scientific sense, meaning it is supported by facts and fits the available data but in the end I cannot prove it:

These moisture sensitive tarantulas (GBB, Avics, etc.) come from areas where they never (or nearly never) come in contact with moist soil. They therefore have no defence against soil bacteria. These immunological defence mechanism have been researched in other, soil dwelling spiders (Acanthoscurria, iirc) and definitely exist. Dry soil does not support many bacteria, but wet soil does (basic microbiology). If you now keep the substrate moist bacteria may or may not fall in from the air and multiply. If these are the wrong kind of bacteria your spider will get an infection (yes, spiders get bacterial infections, that much has been proved) and die. When you see the first signs of it it's usually too late, since these species just seem to die "out of nowhere" - that has been described often. Or it may be too weakened to survive a molt. That's why I avoid moist soil in all forms for sensitive species.