Anybody here own hot snakes?

[ThomasH]

I dont think ANY hot species is a light choice. Thomas may be more experienced with these animals but I deffinetly read that as a flame.

Not to sound like a douche here but if Leila released her back to the wild and didnt just keep it because "it looks so kewl!" id have to say that she had the best intentions for it. At least that seemed obvious to me...

Moving on and staying on topic:

Since Thomas seems to keep hot species... what do you keep? any cool stuff? This may sound cruel but im just curious, how long does it take for a rat to die once its been struck?

I wasn't attempting to be rude. I just had very strong opinions. As MR.I once said, these boards are about being correct, not about being polite. I would like to do my part in keeping AB a good reference and I think I have
something to offer in this thread.
Leila did the right thing by releasing it, I mentioned it in more detail in one of my posts above.
I have kept L. mactans and currently do own a breeding colony of C. sculpturatus, if you consider those hot. Although they are more potent than A. contortrix, A. contortrix has somewhat of a better delivery system and can get more venom in. It is hard to compare venom drop by drop because the inverts that I listed have neurotoxic venom qualities as compared to the Copperhead's haemotoxic qualities.
This isn't cruel. I welcome questioning.
People would actually be surprised to know that copperheads and Crotalus kill their mammilian prey quicker than Naja. Copperheads are capable of killing the rodents stone dead in mid air, more typically between 20-80 seconds while elapids usually kill their prey in a few minutes. The elapids are more dangerous than crotalinae but they are also smarter and carefully inject just the right amount while copperheads just bite, grip and invenomate the whole time. The stone dead rodents in midair findings were probably due to the copperhead directly piercing and invenomating the rodents in a main organ. Copperheads do have long and sharp enough fangs to theoretically do this. Where as Naja are more conservative of venom, some newer research has shown that many Naja and O. hannah also kill by asphyxiation. Any youtube video could give you the answer you desire.
TBH

 

[LeilaNami]

You are clearly implying without a doubt in my mind that free handlers don't use tools. Saying some do not [Free handle.] and listing the difference as using tools is pretty much saying that free handlers don't use tools. You may have just worded it off. I'll give you that.


1. Like I said about the black rat, it was a thirty minute drive and I was watching the snake the whole time. I must have looked away for ten seconds and it had manuevered its way out. Although terrestrial crotalinae, such as the copperhead, aren't as agile as Pantherophis I have no doubt that the copperhead could get out of a kk if it found just the right place to exert a little bit of force.
2. I must have read wrong or my memory doesn't serve right. I apologize. It was the right thing to do letting it go when you did.
3. Apartments and townhomes are not the same thing as seperate houses in residential neighborhoods. My uncle was a minimum wage apartment contractor when he was young, you would be surprised at just how many ways you can fit a small item into the next apartment, especially if it had a mind of its own. Some complexes share vents and most share plumbing, I'm sure a few here remember seeing a burmese python getting into a neighboring apartment by using the pipes on the news. It was a big snake too, it ended up in a poor lady's toilet and it made headlines.
4. The point is you lost control of it due to inexperience, just about all hot herpers will tell anyone who asks the common question "What is the best beginner hot?" Someone else's. [Mentoring.] The mouth rot theory was speculation, glad you got it checked out.
5. Actually it is integrade. Hybrid is a cross at the species level, integrade is a cross at the subspecies level. That is what I was explaining to you. There are well known areas called integrade zones with copperheads. Some areas only contain integrades. In parts of Georgia you will only find A. c. mokasen x A. c. contortrix. Either way, you should have known.
I didn't say you shouldn't own them, I'm saying get proper mentoring. You have obviously made novice mistakes, that is okay. Learn from them and let a mentor teach you the rest.
TBH

Okay Thomas I see what your saying now. I just want to specify was that the only reason he was ever in a KK was because the circumstances of his acquisition did not allow me time to go and get proper equipment. I was not out looking for a snake and only had the KK on me at the time. He just happened to be found in a high traffic area and I felt it was my responsibility as a herp owner to remove him because maintenance usually just kills them and the place was often frequented by joggers with dogs and children. He was nearly right on the foot path and in fact even I almost didn't see him.
As far as the apartment, we did not share vents as I looked into it when I first was thinking of getting a hot though I hadn't planned to actually get one until I moved to my home I am in now. Second, the other apartment was vacant for the time that he was there (roughly one week).
As far as the subspecies (integrade as you say) what I was trying to ask was it laticinctus or a laticinctus cross because both were listed to be in range of where I found him. I was 100% positive he was A. c. laticinctus until I recently misidentified a couple spiders. I was only second guessing myself and I guess I should I have just trusted my first ID since it was obviously correct.
I actually had a mentor but he somewhat left the hobby before I acquired this snake. It isn't the only hot I have dealt with (all I have were wild) but it is the only one I have personally kept for however short a time it was. I've looked for further mentoring but I can't find anyone in my area. I have posted multiple times on this board alone. I had also kept Xenocrophis vitattus and kept it as I would have a hot. I had asked several hobbyists who agreed Agkistrodon sp. would have been the logical next step.
Also as far as the tangling thing, I guess I over-exaggerated. The only reason he couldn't remove himself was because he had no purchase. It took all but 5 seconds to get him off the chair. Yes I admit I lost control but it was also due to the fact that I had to do an emergency removal with a KK.
With P. murinus I was mostly referring to the venom potency rather than aggression. I am also 100% sure that the reason Lovechild didn't eat was because I was trying to convert him to f/t but he wasn't taking to it. I really didn't bother to try live because he was so agitated from me just walking into the room that I felt that it was best to let him go somewhere away from a footpath

 

[ORO]

Owned a good sized collection of "hot" snakes, these are awesome animals. I was tagged by my Bitis arietans one night on my small finger, unfortunately the hospital had no idea how to deal with it, I was trying to talk to them and instruct them before I past out but they would not listen at all, my one friend that may have been some assistance was removed from the hospital because he was causing a fuss watching me get worse and worse. I kept index cards with all my animals with bite info, instructions etc. this was also ignored and sent on its way with my friend. So I was left to fight the venom off on my own, was not a pleasant year, I still have damage from it. I only remember a small portion of the night after the first 3-4 hours after the bite, I am glad for that.

I am in know way am saying do not collect "hot" snakes, I love them. The only reason I do not collect them now is the first bite was very bad, a second could cost me my life, not worth it.

Ensure if you have these animals the hospital is prepared, know where the nearest anti-venom supply is and have a contact there 24hrs, zoo, Reptile center etc. If you own them in an area that is banned and cannot do this, hope you don't get tagged! a couple of precautions may save your life!! I had anti venom shipped in from Buffalo Zoo but passed out while watching the nurse reading the instructions that come with it, trying to figure out what to do while munching on some Halloween candy, I wish I took the extra step to at least educate my doctor.

 

[ThomasH]

So now, please tell me....how long have you kept hots? Your profile says you are 14.....

Spiders, last year. Scorps, this year. Hopefully I will begin with Copperheads this year. The profile is correct! However I do take a part in the hot community. I have profiles in both venom-center and venomousreptiles.org, home of the South Eastern Hot Herps Community! I fight bills like HR 669 and state based bills, I am registered with USARK and get regular emails concerning bills like the ones in South Carolina. I have all the supplies I need to keep a copper, it is just a matter of finding one now. I am not a fan of hooks, I prefer my pillstrom reptile tongs. I have hemostats, a plastic trash can with a good lid for cage cleaning, an escape proof cage, and all the standard supplies for nonvenomous herps. I do have lots of Pantherophis experience. I used to volunteer up at my local zoo. Which boasts one of the largest hot herp collections on this coast. I learned a lot, watched f/t feedings, observed free handling with some usage of tools at its best, I cleaned and handled nonvens, I helped clean alligator snapper enclosures, and much more. I have been generally unsuccessful in finding Coppers but I'm sure that will cange this season. I have talked with naturalists who have told me the exact coordinates of copperheads in my area. I have a friend who is willing to help in whatever way he can as far as location goes. I hope for success after this prolonged Northern Virginia winter and I will keep you all posted on how everything goes.
TBH

 

[jbm150]

My dad kept a juvenile (bout 18 inches) eastern diamondback for a few months. It was an extremely striking snake, the patterns were beautiful. Watching it strike a mouse, let it go, and then follow it after it had died was neat to watch. I was nervous that he was keeping it in his house and convinced him to release it. We did together on Thanksgiving day a few years back. Awesome, awesome snake

 

[Pacmaster]

Heres my northern pacific rattler, CB from a WC female august 07.

The enclosure is stout and strong . . .

And here it is tossin back a mousey . . .

 

[LeilaNami]

Very nice display!

 

[burmish101]

Over the years i've kept a bunch of native hots, but I much prefer t's and true spiders. In my experience with captive bred individuals, they were very easy to hook and move around but I prefer the crazyiness with my spastic t's for example(even though they're practically blind *sigh*). I like something that makes me sweat and snakes just dont do it for me lol, a big retic in feeding mode is fun but that dont really count. I wouldnt mind more Boiga blandingii but finding well acclimated specimens is a pain in the a$$ and can be so much work just to find one let alone treating it, now handling these are fun;P Just a cage cleaning gets the blood flowing!

Also, you cant really compare invert venom to snake venom. Most inverts are WAY hotter than most snakes but snakes inject a TON of venom compared to spiders. Like saying a L. quinquestriatus is .25 on the ld50 table while most Bothrops for instance range in .46-2.8 Now 10% of Leirus stings result in fatalities without antivenom, and surviving a Bothrops bite without antivenom would be a pretty amazing feat.

 

[Pacmaster]

Thankyou!

For the record- Ive had it since it was born in my snake room, goin on 2 years now, and you know how many times Ive put my bare hand on it?
0
Ive never touched it, didnt touch its mother, HAVE NEVER touched a rattlesnake out of the, I dont know, 50-60 Ive caught over the years.

I use a set of gentle giant tongs, a 24" set of forceps, and I dont really mess with it anyways.

Tho in this snakes defence, its fat and lazy, well fed, and calm.
It hardly rattles at me anymore, and only injects live mice when I offer them.
It just swallows prekilled.

I have had no training, other than the sense God gave me . . . :?
I have snake-proof boots and gloves.
I also am not really into putting myself into a situation where Ill get bit, it looks very painful from what Ive seen on tv/net.

All my friends tell me to get rid of it, but I love that snake.
They are just so amazing and beautiful.

And for the record- a live healthy adult mouse lasts about 2-3 steps after being bitten.
I should do a vid on my buddys phone . . .

 

[LeilaNami]

Thankyou!

For the record- Ive had it since it was born in my snake room, goin on 2 years now, and you know how many times Ive put my bare hand on it?
0
Ive never touched it, didnt touch its mother, HAVE NEVER touched a rattlesnake out of the, I dont know, 50-60 Ive caught over the years.

I use a set of gentle giant tongs, a 24" set of forceps, and I dont really mess with it anyways.

Tho in this snakes defence, its fat and lazy, well fed, and calm.
It hardly rattles at me anymore, and only injects live mice when I offer them.
It just swallows prekilled.

I have had no training, other than the sense God gave me . . . :?
I have snake-proof boots and gloves.
I also am not really into putting myself into a situation where Ill get bit, it looks very painful from what Ive seen on tv/net.

All my friends tell me to get rid of it, but I love that snake.
They are just so amazing and beautiful.

And for the record- a live healthy adult mouse lasts about 2-3 steps after being bitten.
I should do a vid on my buddys phone . . .

I'm all for using the tongs. I'm much more comfortable with those than a hook. I'd like to get another Agkistrodon sp. again in the future though this time I would like CB baby even though I can pretty much go in the woods, pick up a random piece of wood to find a couple different species of hot snakes, or go to the creek side and see no less than three big fat Agkistrodon piscivorus chilling on the rocks

 

[Pacmaster]

Over the years i've kept a bunch of native hots, but I much prefer t's and true spiders. In my experience with captive bred individuals, they were very easy to hook and move around but I prefer the crazyiness with my spastic t's for example(even though they're practically blind *sigh*). I like something that makes me sweat and snakes just dont do it for me lol, a big retic in feeding mode is fun but that dont really count. I wouldnt mind more Boiga blandingii but finding well acclimated specimens is a pain in the a$$ and can be so much work just to find one let alone treating it, now handling these are fun;P Just a cage cleaning gets the blood flowing!

Yeah, Im just plain ole scared of touching the tarantulas.
I wouldnt say that I am afraid of my rattler so much as that I have a HEALTHY respect for what it could do to me.
With Ts its different tho, its not the pain of being bitten that gets me, its the way they move- forward/backward/sideways/up/down theyre so unpredictable- that coupled with the dislike of spiders that has been bred into most of the population(im working on it, and doing quite well), and I just aint ready to pick up my "harmless" avics . . .

 

[LeilaNami]

Yeah, Im just plain ole scared of touching the tarantulas.
I wouldnt say that I am afraid of my rattler so much as that I have a HEALTHY respect for what it could do to me.
With Ts its different tho, its not the pain of being bitten that gets me, its the way they move- forward/backward/sideways/up/down theyre so unpredictable- that coupled with the dislike of spiders that has been bred into most of the population(im working on it, and doing quite well), and I just aint ready to pick up my "harmless" avics . . .

Yeah well I'm not ready to try and handle my seemingly docile H. maculata either It's not so bad. Avics are fast even when "walking" though so it could be a little unnerving.

 

[burmish101]

Lol dont handle H. maculata. Had a 2in. fall on my hand while I was pulling an uneaten roach out and lets just say after a night of crazy systematic effects, the slightest thing would make my heart start beating like crazy again for months after. Very painful pounding, it sucked.

 

[Pacmaster]

I like those copperheads, theyre beautiful snakes with the cryptic coloration and evil looking eyes . . .
Id keep one, but I cant get one shipped here to Ca . . .

Those copperheads wiggle their tails like a lure to draw prey, dont they?

 

[Pacmaster]

Yeah, I dont like getting bitten by ANYTHING, except a purty girl of course.
But, ya do something long enough and its gonna happen.

I just make sure it dont with that rattler . . .

 

[LeilaNami]

Lol dont handle H. maculata. Had a 2in. fall on my hand while I was pulling an uneaten roach out and lets just say after a night of crazy systematic effects, the slightest thing would make my heart start beating like crazy again for months after. Very painful pounding, it sucked.

Haha six years with Ts and still going strong without a tag...then again I haven't handled anything worse than A. seemani...on purpose. I almost accidentally handled the H. mac during a transfer lol. I thought this thread was supposed to be about snakes!

 

[arachnocat]

I wouldn't keep anything super venemous. There's a reptile rescue in my area so I can get up close to rattlesnakes and other venemous snakes any time I want, and don't have to keep them myself. I think they're really fascinating.
I only keep "mildly" venemous snakes like my hognose and I'm working on a cage right now for a false water cobra that I hope to pick up at the next reptile show.

 

[Pacmaster]

Hey Rachel, recognize that nice wood cage my rattler is in?

 

[arachnocat]

Oh awesome! That's such a cool set up you have!!