Any thoughts on what's going on with my E. murinus?

[NMTs]

Hey guys, my immature male Ephebopus murinus has something going on and I'm curious what your thoughts are. Some history and info:

He molted on 8/3 after a 70 day molt cycle, which was a little longer than his previous cycle of 63 days. He usually eats well after molting but has not been interested after the most recent molt. His abdomen still looks plump, though - much more plump than it normally looks after a molt.

I've observed him rubbing his abdomen on his webbing - kind of like he's laying down web, but his spinnerettes aren't moving, so he's definitely rubbing. He also defecates in the same spot each time, on the front of his enclosure, but I've not noticed any new spots in a while. Most concerning is his behavior - he's lethargic, has been spending much time out of his burrow (which is unusual for him), and he doesn't retreat into his burrow when I disturb the enclosure like he used to.

I noticed some white crust on his anus, so I cupped him (which was ridiculously easy - 2 months ago there would have been no chance without flooding the entire enclosure) and used wet Qtips to clean it off. I've attached before and after pics. What's throwing me off in the after pic is how dark his abdomen is where the setae got wet. He couldn't be ready to molt again after less than 20 days, could he? I know impaction is unusual and not likely, but I'm struggling to figure out what's going on and how to fix it.

Any ideas would be appreciated.


Crusty bottom:


After cleaning (note how dark his abdomen is):


The enclosure:

I cleaned it really well so I can see if he defecates anywhere. The most I've noticed in the last 3 weeks is a little tiny white drop of excrement on his webbing - nothing like the bombs he's usually dropping, and he never did it on his web before (he's very meticulous).

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[viper69]

Don’t know for sure- something is definitely different. Molting time- none issue

Change in behavior- interesting, lethargic for this genus is rare.

Lethargic animals always bring one thought for me - death- be it days, or next year. I’ve had a few slow down and died the following year.

so far with Ts of my own- I haven’t been wrong.
Hope I am wrong here

 

[NMTs]

Don’t know for sure- something is definitely different. Molting time- none issue

Change in behavior- interesting, lethargic for this genus is rare.

Lethargic animals always bring one thought for me - death- be it days, or next year. I’ve had a few slow down and died the following year.

so far with Ts of my own- I haven’t been wrong.
Hope I am wrong here

Yep, I'm kind of assuming I'm watching his demise. It's a helpless feeling especially when you've reviewed your husbandry again and again and everything seems right, and he was thriving for such a long time. The frustrating part is that there are many health issues with these guys that can be identified, but there's no a damn thing you can do to help them in most cases...

Thanks for putting some thought to it!

 

[viper69]

Yep, I'm kind of assuming I'm watching his demise. It's a helpless feeling especially when you've reviewed your husbandry again and again and everything seems right, and he was thriving for such a long time. The frustrating part is that there are many health issues with these guys that can be identified, but there's no a damn thing you can do to help them in most cases...

Thanks for putting some thought to it!

Don’t bet against Mother Nature yet

 

[Marlana]

Hmm it’s interesting he hasn’t eaten yet. This could explain his lack of poop. If he’s not eaten then he’s got nothing to poop. Has he not eaten at all since molting? Usually with impaction you would notice it later. After a few meals when they start getting backed up with waste.

If not eating that makes me worry about a sucking stomach issue. I’ve only experienced this once with a jumping spider so probably wrong but it’s what my mind jumps to.

 

[NMTs]

Hmm it’s interesting he hasn’t eaten yet. This could explain his lack of poop. If he’s not eaten then he’s got nothing to poop. Has he not eaten at all since molting? Usually with impaction you would notice it later. After a few meals when they start getting backed up with waste.

If not eating that makes me worry about a sucking stomach issue. I’ve only experienced this once with a jumping spider so probably wrong but it’s what my mind jumps to.

Looking back at my notes, he did actually eat once after molting, on 8/9. I have him down as molting on 8/3, but that's just the day I got back into town after a trip, so he actually molted sometime in the 10 days prior to that. So not a sucking stomach issue. I must admit that crossed my mind, too, especially because his molt was absolutely shredded and I wasn't able to inspect it at all, but I'd forgotten that he took that one meal... He hadn't eaten in around 20 days prior to molting, even up to 25 days, so he wasn't very full, but I would expect at least something.

Another reason I'm considering impaction is because I've seen him doing what I can only assume is trying to defecate - he'll stand on the edge of his little mound and raise his abdomen and strain (at least that's what it looks like), but all that happens is a minuscule dribble of the white fluid. This guy is a poop-shooter when he's right, spraying clear across the enclosure to the side wall and up to the lid, but there's been none of that.

I appreciate your help very much.

 

[Marlana]

Looking back at my notes, he did actually eat once after molting, on 8/9. I have him down as molting on 8/3, but that's just the day I got back into town after a trip, so he actually molted sometime in the 10 days prior to that. So not a sucking stomach issue. I must admit that crossed my mind, too, especially because his molt was absolutely shredded and I wasn't able to inspect it at all, but I'd forgotten that he took that one meal... He hadn't eaten in around 20 days prior to molting, even up to 25 days, so he wasn't very full, but I would expect at least something.

Another reason I'm considering impaction is because I've seen him doing what I can only assume is trying to defecate - he'll stand on the edge of his little mound and raise his abdomen and strain (at least that's what it looks like), but all that happens is a minuscule dribble of the white fluid. This guy is a poop-shooter when he's right, spraying clear across the enclosure to the side wall and up to the lid, but there's been none of that.

I appreciate your help very much.

Ahh yeah that sounds more like impaction. His anus does look really weird in the 2nd picture in particular. But I can’t tell if it’s just poop or deformed. He is pretty chunky for a E.murinus with only one meal post molt, considering they usually stay pretty thin but that’s not conclusive.

 

[NMTs]

Ahh yeah that sounds more like impaction. His anus does look really weird in the 2nd picture in particular. But I can’t tell if it’s just poop or deformed. He is pretty chunky for a E.murinus with only one meal post molt, considering they usually stay pretty thin but that’s not conclusive.

The most concerning part of it all is his behavior - I mean, he sat there in that catch cup and let me clean his butt of with Qtips and hardly moved. Sometimes I could even swear he was leaning into it, like it felt good to him (I know this is just my mind playing tricks, but hey...). Poor guy, I just wish there was anything else I could do. I won't let this go on forever, though, so hopefully there's some improvement soon.

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

I've heard people say impaction can come from a molt that didn't go quite right (Not necesssarily a bad molt just a very small piece of stuck molt around the anus). It sounds like impaction to me, and it also sounds like he prrobably wont make it. I had an impacted T that is still around, but she never got lethargic or acted strange, and so I think it was only a partial blockage. Best of luck though.

 

[Storm76]

I've lost a couple of my T's to impaction issues and them being lethargic, not reacting as they do normally, hardly moving and not being defensive for species that used to be was always the case in those situations - without exception. I am not saying that's the case here and I'd suggest for you to leave the T alone now since you've done what you could from your end really. I've been in that bad situation with my big A. geniculta that passed away some years ago so I know it's hard to keep on hoping it'll somehow right itself, but if impaction is the case here there's nothing you can do.

Aside the above, E. murinus react to changes in their enclosure enviroment pretty obvious usually but from what I see from your pictures his home is just fine. Did you experience big changes in temperature lately where it sits at? If not, I don't think there's anything going on on that front.

I think it's either something went wrent awry during last molt, impaction, or it's just some phase that animal goes through for reasons unknown.

 

[NMTs]

I've heard people say impaction can come from a molt that didn't go quite right (Not necesssarily a bad molt just a very small piece of stuck molt around the anus). It sounds like impaction to me, and it also sounds like he prrobably wont make it. I had an impacted T that is still around, but she never got lethargic or acted strange, and so I think it was only a partial blockage. Best of luck though.

I've lost a couple of my T's to impaction issues and them being lethargic, not reacting as they do normally, hardly moving and not being defensive for species that used to be was always the case in those situations - without exception. I am not saying that's the case here and I'd suggest for you to leave the T alone now since you've done what you could from your end really. I've been in that bad situation with my big A. geniculta that passed away some years ago so I know it's hard to keep on hoping it'll somehow right itself, but if impaction is the case here there's nothing you can do.

Aside the above, E. murinus react to changes in their enclosure enviroment pretty obvious usually but from what I see from your pictures his home is just fine. Did you experience big changes in temperature lately where it sits at? If not, I don't think there's anything going on on that front.

I think it's either something went wrent awry during last molt, impaction, or it's just some phase that animal goes through for reasons unknown.

Thanks guys. I know it doesn't look promising for him. No environmental changes recently that I can think of. I appreciate the time you've spent reading and replying. I'll update if anything changes.

 

[NMTs]

Hey everyone. My guy didn't make it. He took a rapid turn for the worse this evening - he was out of his burrow most of the day, then late this afternoon he went to the bottom of his burrow, started to curl up, and was completely unresponsive save for a twitch here and there. I dug him out and decided I'd at least try to clear the blockage in case it was impaction, and that was definitely what happened. WARNING - the following pics are gross...



As you can see, when I took a set of fine-tipped forceps and opened his anal tubercle, a load of fluid and dozens of little balls of feces poured out. His body had been producing feces for weeks with no way to get it out. After I gently worked as much of it out as I could, I placed him back in his enclosure with his mouth in a shallow dish of water (he was still slightly moving his legs at the time), but it wasn't meant to be and he passed an hour or so later. I can honestly say I tried everything to save this guy, but there wasn't really anything I could do. It's just amazing how quickly he went from great to dead, and I wish there was something else I could have done...

Thanks for all your input and kindness.

 

[Charliemum]

I am sorry for your loss , you clearly tried everything you could but unfortunately with our t's we often can't tell there's something wrong and once they show it its too late for us to intervene , you did all you could for him and gave him the best chance, hugs to you hun.

 

[Marlana]

Ugh I’m so sorry for your loss @NMTs

 

[pvcL]

"and I wish there was something else I could have done..."
Don't be too harsh on yourself. You are a great t keeper and I don't think you could've done much. You already did everything you could to make sure the t was fine :/ Things like this just happen.
Im sorry for your loss

 

[NMTs]

"and I wish there was something else I could have done..."
Don't be too harsh on yourself. You are a great t keeper and I don't think you could've done much. You already did everything you could to make sure the t was fine :/ Things like this just happen.
Im sorry for your loss

Thanks. I meant that more in terms of "I wish we (collectively as a community) knew more about the medical issues that these animals face and how to treat them before they die" kind of way... I mean, I used to keep freshwater aquarium fish and there was more info available about how to treat them for diseases and ailments, including impaction, than we're even close to knowing about arachnids in general. I'll keep doing what I can to learn about them, though, and will share what I learn and what is helpful so that hopefully someone else might not have to lose an awesome creature in the future.