Any Millipede Advice for a Canadian?

[IllusionQueen]

So, I bought two American giant millipedes (Narceus americanus) as an impulse buy, because they made it seem like it would be easy to care for them. I'm starting to regret my decision as I've now realized how hard it is to just find substrate for them.
I asked the sellers through email, and they told me that they just make their own flake soil. I have no idea how to do that, and I don't think anyone here (I'm in BC, Vancouver to be exact) even sells flake soil. So I was advised to find some organic black earth topsoil and mix it with dead leaves and rotting wood, and add calcium in the form of cuttlefish bone or limestone. The dead leaves is easy enough. I live about two blocks away from some maple trees. I can just go and collect some leaves in the autumn. The calcium is also very easy, as cuttlefish bone can be found in most pet stores in the birds' section. The rotting wood of hardwood trees... I doubt anyone would sell that, so I might have to go hiking somewhere that has a lot of deciduous trees...? But I can't believe how much trouble I'm having with just finding soil! I can't find anywhere that sells organic black earth topsoil without chemicals except for places like Home Depot and RONA but they all have many bad reviews with people claiming that it smells awful and attracts bugs, or that they find plastic/glass/metal in the bags... A plant store that is well-known around here told me that they have an organic compost, but there's bark in it, and the bark is from softwood trees, which won't do... I've asked my friend to check out some garden stores for me, but she couldn't find anything useful either.
The best millipede substrate I could find is the one from Bugs in Cyberspace, but I'm pretty sure that they can't ship anything here, living or not. And all the flake soil that I could find online also do not ship to Canada. It makes me sad to say this, but if you want to have a bunch of cool inverts, the first thing you gotta do is to move to the US, or make sure that you're already living there. They have all the good stuff... So please don't recommend anything that I can't get shipped here.
Does anyone live around my area and have pet millipedes?? What do you do for substrate? Please bestow upon me your knowledge Are there any brands that you recommend? Do you know where I can find rotting wood from hardwood trees?
If it is this hard to find substrate for pedes, I'm definitely never doing this again once these two pass (which might happen sooner rather than later. They've already eaten half of the flake soil that they came with. I'm on a timer here. If I can't find them the right substrate before their flake soil depletes...). Otherwise these would be one of my favourite pets to own. I'm never impulse-buying any pet ever again, no matter how easy the sellers make it seem.

 

[CutThroat Kid]

Maple is good, but other hardwoods like oak are better. Avoid any resinous soft woods with saps and oils. If you can go down to your local hardware store and buy smoker BBQ pellets, then go ahead and use this method by @Hisserdude to make flake soil.

For the time being you can just mix up some moist substrate with dead leaves.

 

[IllusionQueen]

In most of the results I've found, people suggested oak leaves, but I didn't understand how that is better than maple since they are both hardwood. I don't know where the nearest oak trees are, and I'm not good at recognizing which trees are which. I guess I can look around when I go out for walks, but if they will eat maple leaves, I kinda don't want to go any farther than I need to.

Oof, that method looks...complicated for my small brain. And it needs to be prepared and stirred daily for a month in advance, yikes. I wish someone here could just sell it to me already fermented haha. I almost feel like it'll be easier to just look for rotting wood and mixing it with substrate, but that's the problem. Like I mentioned, I can't find substrate.
I'll have to think about the method some more. The Pit Boss Competition Blend Barbecue Pellets from Walmart look good enough if I do decide to go this route.

 

[KuneHere]

The Millipede Enthusiast's Database - Library of Substrate

This page is devoted to reports and recipes of substrate mixes that have been proven to be successful with millipedes, as well as to list brands of soil that are safe for use with millipedes, arranged by region.

sites.google.com

might be useful

 

[CutThroat Kid]

In most of the results I've found, people suggested oak leaves, but I didn't understand how that is better than maple since they are both hardwood. I don't know where the nearest oak trees are, and I'm not good at recognizing which trees are which. I guess I can look around when I go out for walks, but if they will eat maple leaves, I kinda don't want to go any farther than I need to.

Oof, that method looks...complicated for my small brain. And it needs to be prepared and stirred daily for a month in advance, yikes. I wish someone here could just sell it to me already fermented haha. I almost feel like it'll be easier to just look for rotting wood and mixing it with substrate, but that's the problem. Like I mentioned, I can't find substrate.
I'll have to think about the method some more. The Pit Boss Competition Blend Barbecue Pellets from Walmart look good enough if I do decide to go this route.

The problem is the wood needs to be decaying. So, you can't really just grab some branches of your local maple tree. If you can find a single felled hardwood tree, one that has been dead for a while so that the wood is soft and crumbles when crushed, then you're set for life. Just grab some chunks, take em home, and if you can, bake the rotted wood at 200 F for 25 mins to kill any parasites that may be in the wood. Let cool, crumble up, add to substrate.

 

[KuneHere]

The problem is the wood needs to be decaying. So, you can't really just grab some branches of your local maple tree. If you can find a single felled hardwood tree, one that has been dead for a while so that the wood is soft and crumbles when crushed, then you're set for life. Just grab some chunks, take em home, and if you can, bake the rotted wood at 200 F for 25 mins to kill any parasites that may be in the wood. Let cool, crumble up, add to substrate.

You can also freeze the wood to preserve some of the beneficial stuff bur boiling and baking is very optional and I use that method often. As for making it rot, I just put in leaves and wood (previously freezed or baked/boiled) into a container with water, close it and keep in somewhere warm. Couple of weeks, a month (for wood- a lot longer) and is all slimy, smelly and ready to serve. I also recommend lichen, gathered on dead branches and soaked overnight, millies go crazy for it.

 

[IllusionQueen]

The Millipede Enthusiast's Database - Library of Substrate

This page is devoted to reports and recipes of substrate mixes that have been proven to be successful with millipedes, as well as to list brands of soil that are safe for use with millipedes, arranged by region.

sites.google.com

might be useful

OMG that is exactly what I needed!! I struggled so much for the past two weeks because I couldn't find safe soil for the pedes! This solves 50% of my problems.
The one on the top of that list, the "Golfgreen Organic Triple Mix Garden Soil w/ Kelp" looks like it can be bought in a store not too far away. That's perfect, thank you so much!!

 

[CutThroat Kid]

You can also freeze the wood to preserve some of the beneficial stuff

How long do you freeze for? The one time I tried freezing wood flakes and leaves, I did so for two days in a Ziplock and still had nematodes in my enclosure after a while.

 

[IllusionQueen]

The problem is the wood needs to be decaying. So, you can't really just grab some branches of your local maple tree. If you can find a single felled hardwood tree, one that has been dead for a while so that the wood is soft and crumbles when crushed, then you're set for life. Just grab some chunks, take em home, and if you can, bake the rotted wood at 200 F for 25 mins to kill any parasites that may be in the wood. Let cool, crumble up, add to substrate.

Oh okay, I was hoping of just finding pieces of rotting wood lying around, but I guess that's not something that's so easy to find. I don't know if I'll be lucky enough to find a felled tree that has been dead for a while, but I'll just have to try.

You can also freeze the wood to preserve some of the beneficial stuff but boiling and baking is very optional and I use that method often. As for making it rot, I just put in leaves and wood (previously freezed or baked/boiled) into a container with water, close it and keep in somewhere warm. Couple of weeks, a month (for wood- a lot longer) and is all slimy, smelly and ready to serve. I also recommend lichen, gathered on dead branches and soaked overnight, millies go crazy for it.

So are you saying that if I can find a piece of wood from a hardwood tree, I can just freeze it, bake it, put it in a container with dead leaves (no airholes), pour in water, and let it sit for a month or so, and it will be rotten? Am I understanding this right, or am I getting confused?
And there were branches of the said maple trees lying around at the park. I could go back there and check to see if there are any lichen on them.

 

[KuneHere]

Oh okay, I was hoping of just finding pieces of rotting wood lying around, but I guess that's not something that's so easy to find. I don't know if I'll be lucky enough to find a felled tree that has been dead for a while, but I'll just have to try.



So are you saying that if I can find a piece of wood from a hardwood tree, I can just freeze it, bake it, put it in a container with dead leaves (no airholes), pour in water, and let it sit for a month or so, and it will be rotten? Am I understanding this right, or am I getting confused?
And there were branches of the said maple trees lying around at the park. I could go back there and check to see if there are any lichen on them.

Not any piece of wood- it has to be dead already, white and crumbly or already decayed. Fresh and live wood wouldnt decay in tub of water, that would take idk half a year. Park can me risky- it might have been sprayed with pesticides.

How long do you freeze for? The one time I tried freezing wood flakes and leaves, I did so for two days in a Ziplock and still had nematodes in my enclosure after a while.

yeah some nematodes can survive and I had that happen (they fortunately were beneficial) thats why I use that method rarely. I left it in the freezer for a week couple of times, few times for 48 hours.

 

[IllusionQueen]

Not any piece of wood- it has to be dead already, white and crumbly or already decayed. Fresh and live wood wouldnt decay in tub of water, that would take idk half a year. Park can me risky- it might have been sprayed with pesticides.

Ah okay, so you were talking about wood that is already decayed but not rotting.
I think all neighbourhood parks in my city are now pesticide-free, since...2014...? So I think they should be fine

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Oh okay, I was hoping of just finding pieces of rotting wood lying around, but I guess that's not something that's so easy to find. I don't know if I'll be lucky enough to find a felled tree that has been dead for a while, but I'll just have to try.



So are you saying that if I can find a piece of wood from a hardwood tree, I can just freeze it, bake it, put it in a container with dead leaves (no airholes), pour in water, and let it sit for a month or so, and it will be rotten? Am I understanding this right, or am I getting confused?
And there were branches of the said maple trees lying around at the park. I could go back there and check to see if there are any lichen on them.

Yes the park is a Good place ! I may go there looking for bark at some point .

OMG that is exactly what I needed!! I struggled so much for the past two weeks because I couldn't find safe soil for the pedes! This solves 50% of my problems.
The one on the top of that list, the "Golfgreen Organic Triple Mix Garden Soil w/ Kelp" looks like it can be bought in a store not too far away. That's perfect, thank you so much!!

Why is Organic soil for pedes and bad for tarantulas? Last time I tried to it kept growing mold and spores etc .maybe I got the wrong type that was ages ago .

How long do you freeze for? The one time I tried freezing wood flakes and leaves, I did so for two days in a Ziplock and still had nematodes in my enclosure after a while.

Is there a way to bake wood without the bad smell ?

 

[CutThroat Kid]

that's not something that's so easy to find.

Just go where there are trees, fallen branches that are obviously old and from prior seasons can work too. It's just got to be deteriorating because otherwise the pedes can't properly digest it.

Is there a way to bake wood without the bad smell ?

Could go get a used toaster oven from the thrift and do it outside. But otherwise, nope!

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Just go where there are trees, fallen branches that are obviously old and from prior seasons can work too. It's just got to be deteriorating because otherwise the pedes can't properly digest it.



Could go get a used toaster oven from the thrift and do it outside. But otherwise, nope!

I take it the smell would ruin a good toaster oven ?guess I can look for a used one .. not sure parents would be happy smelling burnt wood. They were gone last time I cooked bark . Can’t make a fire no fire wood and it would burn the bark . If only I knew cheap places to buy bark , it seems rather expensive.

 

[IllusionQueen]

Not any piece of wood- it has to be dead already, white and crumbly or already decayed. Fresh and live wood wouldnt decay in tub of water, that would take idk half a year. Park can me risky- it might have been sprayed with pesticides.

Would wood shavings work for the millipedes? Or does it absolutely have to be rotting wood or flake soil? Or I guess I could also make wood shavings into flake soil...

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Would wood shavings work for the millipedes? Or does it absolutely have to be rotting wood or flake soil? Or I guess I could also make wood shavings into flake soil...

Good question ! I tried looking this stuff up I’m thinking like what the heck is-flake soil?

How to Make Flake Soil - an indepth recipe and guide — Richard's Inverts

richardsinverts.com

 

[IllusionQueen]

The Millipede Enthusiast's Database - Library of Substrate

This page is devoted to reports and recipes of substrate mixes that have been proven to be successful with millipedes, as well as to list brands of soil that are safe for use with millipedes, arranged by region.

sites.google.com

might be useful

I bought a big bag of "Golfgreen Organic Triple Mix Garden Soil w/ Kelp" and was going to put the garden soil into the millipede enclosure, but then I got scared when I found out how many wood chips are in the soil. There are so many wood chips in there that it's impossible to separate them from the rest of the soil. I threw away the bag because it was taking up space, so I can't even check the back of the bag for more details. I'm worried that the wood chips might be from soft woods. Is composted soft woods safe? Are you sure that Millipede Enthusiast's Database site can be trusted? It would be such a waste to toss all this garden soil out... I'm worried for my millipede. It's been waiting so long for new substrate, but I keep running into more obstacles like these...

 

[SplatteredRaccoon]

I bought a big bag of "Golfgreen Organic Triple Mix Garden Soil w/ Kelp" and was going to put the garden soil into the millipede enclosure, but then I got scared when I found out how many wood chips are in the soil. There are so many wood chips in there that it's impossible to separate them from the rest of the soil. I threw away the bag because it was taking up space, so I can't even check the back of the bag for more details. I'm worried that the wood chips might be from soft woods. Is composted soft woods safe? Are you sure that Millipede Enthusiast's Database site can be trusted? It would be such a waste to toss all this garden soil out... I'm worried for my millipede. It's been waiting so long for new substrate, but I keep running into more obstacles like these...

View attachment 449930

I've emailed the company that owns Golfgreen for you to confirm whether the wood chips are safe or not, in the meantime try screening the soil through a mesh screen or maybe a sieve to remove larger pieces of detritus like that, and going to your park if your sure they don't use pesticides to gather two or three gallon bags of dried leaves to soak in water and cause to rot. Sphagnum moss, while not as nutritious as rotted hardwoods or flake soils, is a food source for millis, and can be used temporarily with the sieved soil and rotted leaves to add some extra nutrition to the substrate, sphagnum moss can be found in lots of pet shops as it's a popular bedding for reptiles, or from garden stores usually meant for orchids if you can confirm it is organic and pesticide/fertilizer free. Sprinkling some sphagnum moss and rotted leaves on the surface of your current substrate is also an option, albeit, again temporary, if you really don't trust this soil right now, but I will say the millipede database has been nothing but helpful in my research and learning about keeping these little guys, and to my knowledge was put together by a lot of people in this forum as well as experienced people in the hobby, there is always the possibility though that golfgreen has changed the recipe since their addition to the list of safe potting soils. Rotting maple branches, those that you can kind of squish or crush and which scrape easily with your fingernail, can be found pretty regularly from past seasons if trees are abundant enough, and on their own can be used as climbs or hides for your milli which it will also happily nibble on. Lichen colonies may be bought online from vivarium and terrarium hobbiests which use no pesticides and species that grow primarily on hardwood and are native or naturalized to the US would likely be good as a supplemental feeding for N. Americanus as well, like British soldier lichen!

 

[IllusionQueen]

I've emailed the company that owns Golfgreen for you to confirm whether the wood chips are safe or not, in the meantime try screening the soil through a mesh screen or maybe a sieve to remove larger pieces of detritus like that, and going to your park if your sure they don't use pesticides to gather two or three gallon bags of dried leaves to soak in water and cause to rot. Sphagnum moss, while not as nutritious as rotted hardwoods or flake soils, is a food source for millis, and can be used temporarily with the sieved soil and rotted leaves to add some extra nutrition to the substrate, sphagnum moss can be found in lots of pet shops as it's a popular bedding for reptiles, or from garden stores usually meant for orchids if you can confirm it is organic and pesticide/fertilizer free. Sprinkling some sphagnum moss and rotted leaves on the surface of your current substrate is also an option, albeit, again temporary, if you really don't trust this soil right now, but I will say the millipede database has been nothing but helpful in my research and learning about keeping these little guys, and to my knowledge was put together by a lot of people in this forum as well as experienced people in the hobby, there is always the possibility though that golfgreen has changed the recipe since their addition to the list of safe potting soils. Rotting maple branches, those that you can kind of squish or crush and which scrape easily with your fingernail, can be found pretty regularly from past seasons if trees are abundant enough, and on their own can be used as climbs or hides for your milli which it will also happily nibble on. Lichen colonies may be bought online from vivarium and terrarium hobbiests which use no pesticides and species that grow primarily on hardwood and are native or naturalized to the US would likely be good as a supplemental feeding for N. Americanus as well, like British soldier lichen!

Thank you so much for emailing them for me! I do have rotten wood and leaves that I bought from a farm. I was going to mix all of that with the soil, but then I didn't end up doing it when I saw the wood chips. I sent a message to one of the people who owns the Millipede Database but they never got back to me for some reason, so I got anxious. I'm not sure what year that site was made and/or when was the last time they updated it, so even if all the information there was accurate at first, I wouldn't be surprised if things had changed since then, especially with the Golfgreen brand. It's a commercial brand, after all. But yeah, I pretty much have everything ready for the millipede, the last thing I need to do is mix it up and add water, but I certainly wasn't expecting this sudden obstacle to appear when I'm so close to my goal... I'll try to use my vinegaroon's enclosure's vented lid (even without the lid he can't climb out anyway) later to see if I can remove the wood chips, but it's going to be hard and it's going to take a long time, as some bits are very small, and there looks to be more wood chips than there is soil...

 

[SplatteredRaccoon]

Thank you so much for emailing them for me! I do have rotten wood and leaves that I bought from a farm. I was going to mix all of that with the soil, but then I didn't end up doing it when I saw the wood chips. I sent a message to one of the people who owns the Millipede Database but they never got back to me for some reason, so I got anxious. I'm not sure what year that site was made and/or when was the last time they updated it, so even if all the information there was accurate at first, I wouldn't be surprised if things had changed since then, especially with the Golfgreen brand. It's a commercial brand, after all. But yeah, I pretty much have everything ready for the millipede, the last thing I need to do is mix it up and add water, but I certainly wasn't expecting this sudden obstacle to appear when I'm so close to my goal... I'll try to use my vinegaroon's enclosure's vented lid (even without the lid he can't climb out anyway) later to see if I can remove the wood chips, but it's going to be hard and it's going to take a long time, as some bits are very small, and there looks to be more wood chips than there is soil...

I really hope it works out for you and if I stumble upon a different Canadian brand of compost or soil you can use, I'll send the name of it your way!

Hello! Sorry for dropping in again, but I found a premixed substrate that ships to Canada albeit for what they say will be a heftier price, but I thought I'd drop it here just in case you were interested!

Lugarti Premium Millipede & Isopod Substrate

Buy Wholesale Lugarti Premium Millipede & Isopod Substrate For Sale at Bulk Prices! Best Millipede & Isopod Substrate Available!

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