Androctonus species

[Galaxy]

Hi Everybody I am Galaxy and new on this forum.
I live in the Netherlands and own scorpions on and off for 20 years now.

I have a question:

Which Androctonus species is the most defensive/aggressive in your experience?

I have experience with A. australis Hector, A. australis, A bicolor, and at the moment A. crassicauda.
The only defensive Androctonus scorpions till now were the A. bicolor species.
I have'nt noticed any of that from my A. crassicauda so far, but it is a instar 2-3 so anything can happen.

The most aggressive scorpion I have owned was an adult Leiurus quinquestriatus female... WOW!!

 

[Dr SkyTower]

Leiurus quinquestriatus seems to be the most aggressive. Its tail is up and flicking the moment it senses something it doesn't like It behaves like it knows its venom is so toxic and isn't afraid to advertise that fact!

 

[Galaxy]

And which Androctonus species did you find the most aggressive Dr SkyTower?

 

[PrincessAltina]

I've heard that in general that crassicauda are the most defensive. But like people, scorpions each have their own personality and will vary from specimen to specimen

 

[Dr SkyTower]

probably the same as what PrincessAltina suggested. Maybe androctonus australis. Their aggression though will depend on the individual. Females seem to be more aggressive.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Leiurus quinquestriatus seems to be the most aggressive. Its tail is up and flicking the moment it senses something it doesn't like It behaves like it knows its venom is so toxic and isn't afraid to advertise that fact!

Agreed, they can violently snap their tails like a whip. In a recent comparitive study involving several species they were found to possess the fastest *open strike (*greatest distance between start and finish of an individual strike).

 

[DeannaM]

Hi Everybody I am Galaxy and new on this forum.
I live in the Netherlands and own scorpions on and off for 20 years now.

I have a question:

Which Androctonus species is the most defensive/aggressive in your experience?

I have experience with A. australis Hector, A. australis, A bicolor, and at the moment A. crassicauda.
The only defensive Androctonus scorpions till now were the A. bicolor species.
I have'nt noticed any of that from my A. crassicauda so far, but it is a instar 2-3 so anything can happen.

The most aggressive scorpion I have owned was an adult Leiurus quinquestriatus female... WOW!!

I know this post is a little old now, but I was wondering if you had advice on A. australis, I'm getting one tomorrow and I'm a little nervous as it's the most venomous pet I will have gotten to date. I'm a bit worried and am wondering if it's justified, or if I'm a responsible keeper who doesn't play with it I'll have nothing to worry about. Feeling a bit conflicted

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I know this post is a little old now, but I was wondering if you had advice on A. australis, I'm getting one tomorrow and I'm a little nervous as it's the most venomous pet I will have gotten to date. I'm a bit worried and am wondering if it's justified, or if I'm a responsible keeper who doesn't play with it I'll have nothing to worry about. Feeling a bit conflicted

These scorpions are easy to manage, just don't use your bare hands in maintenance of its terrarium. Yeah, never ever play with a scorpion you will just manage to provoke a sting response or cause harmful stress to the scorpion.

I use catch cups (with removeable lids) and my tongs to corral them in and out enclosures. Here is a clip of a demonstration I made a while back with an adult Androctonus crassicauda (please note I cut off all means of escape for the scorpion, square catch cups > round catch cups, and the square cup serves as my "body shield"):

View attachment Video.Guru_20201003_155502031.mp4

 

[Johnn]

I heard bicolors are pretty aggressive I got a dry sting from mine and a weak for what they pack but real sting from an australis. I was simply handling the bicolor and it seems you unprovoked stung me where the australis I nudged it's tail to get it to move and that provoked it. But I heard bicolors are really agvressive

 

[Ferrachi]

I know this post is a little old now, but I was wondering if you had advice on A. australis, I'm getting one tomorrow and I'm a little nervous as it's the most venomous pet I will have gotten to date. I'm a bit worried and am wondering if it's justified, or if I'm a responsible keeper who doesn't play with it I'll have nothing to worry about. Feeling a bit conflicted

Exactly what @Outpost31Survivor said... just respect the scorpion for what it's capable of and don't try to handle it with your bare hands and you should be fine

 

[Dr SkyTower]

Androctonus Australis is highly venomous and can be quite dangerous due to its skittish behavior. But as long as you don't handle it, put fingers in the enclosure to do housekeeping etc, you should be fine.

 

[Ferrachi]

I heard bicolors are pretty aggressive I got a dry sting from mine and a weak for what they pack but real sting from an australis. I was simply handling the bicolor and it seems you unprovoked stung me where the australis I nudged it's tail to get it to move and that provoked it. But I heard bicolors are really agvressive

Are you proud of trying to get them to sting you or you trying to have people on this forum say WOW ? No one will respect the fact that you're trying to handle theses scorpions and trying to get them to sting you. Not smart...

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I heard bicolors are pretty aggressive I got a dry sting from mine and a weak for what they pack but real sting from an australis. I was simply handling the bicolor and it seems you unprovoked stung me where the australis I nudged it's tail to get it to move and that provoked it. But I heard bicolors are really agvressive

You are not being responsible enough with Androctonus they can and have killed adults in a few hours. However, adults deaths from fairly rare but can be very serious if there is an additional history of health issues such as hypotension, diabetes, and other chronic illnesses that have compromised their immunity.

If someone is stung by an Androctonus the first 30 minutes to an hour is critical, people that have taken immediate action will usually end in positive results. Androctonus crassicauda is especially scary as there is a delayed manifestation than usual (patients are often misdiagnosed and it can and often does end bad for them) and its venom has one of the slowest eliminations if not the slowest elimination of all known scorpion venoms - a half life of 24 hours!!!

Please note, there is not a single medical facility in the US that has the proper antivenoms stored and readily available for any North African and Middle Eastern medical significant species.

Yes, hobbyists have been stung by both Leiurus and Androctonus, and have successfully rode it out, but most will tell you it was the worst week of their life.

There is too much unpredictable variables involved to risk dicking around with these dangerous scorpions. What impresses me the most is the men and women that have kept these beautiful Buthids as pets for years and can say they have never ever been stung by one. These are the bright beacons the hobby should always be represented by.

 

[Ferrachi]

You are not being responsible enough with Androctonus they can and have killed adults in a few hours. However, adults deaths from fairly rare but can be very serious if there is an additional history of health issues such as hypotension, diabetes, and other chronic illnesses that have compromised their immunity.

If someone is stung by an Androctonus the first 30 minutes to an hour is critical, people that have taken immediate action will usually end in positive results. Androctonus crassicauda is especially scary as there is a delayed manifestation than usual (patients are often misdiagnosed and it can and often does end bad for them) and its venom has one of the slowest eliminations if not the slowest elimination of all known scorpion venoms - a half life of 24 hours!!!

Please note, there is not a single medical facility in the US that has the proper antivenoms stored and readily available for any North African and Middle Eastern medical significant species.

Yes, hobbyists have been stung by both Leiurus and Androctonus, and have successfully rode it out, but most will tell you it was the worst week of their life.

There is too much unpredictable variables involved to risk dicking around with these dangerous scorpions. What impresses me the most is the men and women that have kept these beautiful Buthids as pets for years and can say they have never ever been stung by one. These are the bright beacons the hobby should always be represented by.

He's the same person that posted this:

Handling androctonus

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

He's the same person that posted this:

Handling androctonus

Terrible this is not how the hobby should be represented, he is not telling anything we don't already know. These scorpion are like playing Russian roulette many species have highly variable levels of toxicity - diet, climate, locale, etc all play a role in this. He could have been stung by a A. australis (if it was indeed an australis) that may have been loaded with the low end grade of toxins or simply low on venom supply but the next australis or dangerous scorpion could be fully loaded with a .44 magnum round.


Many if not most adult fatalities are caused by delayed medical attention simply due to a lack of a medical facility with a properly trained staff and/or the victim lives in a remote rural location. Which is not a issue here in the US but no one in the US houses these important antivenoms.

 

[Ferrachi]

Terrible this is not how the hobby should be represented, he is not telling anything we don't already know. These scorpion are like playing Russian roulette many species have highly variable levels of toxicity - diet, climate, locale, etc all play a role in this. He could have been stung by a A. australis (if it was indeed an australis) that may have been loaded with the low end grade of toxins or simply low on venom supply but the next australis or dangerous scorpion could be fully loaded with a .44 magnum round.


Many if not most adult fatalities are caused by delayed medical attention simply due to a lack of a medical facility with a properly trained staff and/or the victim lives in a remote rural location. Which is not a issue here in the US but no one in the US houses these important antivenoms.

and not to say, all it takes is one bad accident to ruin the hobby for the rest of us when the government decides to prohibit the hobby or specific specimens

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Here are some papers on intraspecific variability of scorpion venoms:


El-Hafny B, Chgoury F, Adil N, Cohen N, Hassar M. Intraspecific variability and pharmacokinetic characteristics of Androctonus mauretanicus scorpion venom. Toxicon. 2002;40(11):1609-16.

Badhe RV, Thomas AB, Harer SL, Deshpande AD, Salvi N, Waghmare A. Intraspecific variation in protein of red scorpion (Mesobuthus tamulus, Coconsis, Pocock) venoms from Western and Southern India. J Venom Anim Toxins incl Trop Dis. 2006;12(4):612-9.

Kalapothakis E, Chavez-Olortegui C. Venom variability among several Tityus serrulatus specimens. Toxicon. 1997;35(10):1523-9.

Ozkan O, Adıguzel S, Yakıstıran S, Filazi A. Study of the relationship between Androctonus crassicauda (Olivier, 1807; Scorpiones, Buthidae) venom toxicity and telson size, weight and storing condition. J Venom Anim Toxins incl Trop Dis. 2006;12(2):297-309.

FABAD J Pharm Sci. 2003;28(1):61-70. El Ayeb M, Rochat H. Polymorphism and quantitative variations of toxins in the venom of the scorpion Androctonus australis hector. Toxicon. 1985;23(5):755-60.

Abdel-Rahman MA, Omran MAA, Abdel-Nabi IM, Ueda H, McVean A. Intraspecific variation in the Egyptian scorpion Scorpio maurus palmatus
venom collected from different biotopes. Toxicon. 2009;53(3):349-59.

Pimenta AM, De Marco Almeida F, de Lima ME, Martin-Eauclaire ME, Bougis PE. Individual variability in Tityus serrulatus (Scorpiones, Buthidae) venom elicited by matrix-assisted laser desorption/ionization time-of-flight mass spectrometry. Rapid Commun Mass Spectrom. 2003;17(5):413-8.

Omran MA, McVean A. Intraspecific variation in scorpion Leiurus quinquestriatus venom collected from Egypt (Sinai and Aswan deserts). J Toxicol Toxin Rev. 2000;19(3-4):247-64.

 

[Galaxy]

Have you ever seen this behaviour with a Androctonus species?

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Have you ever seen this behaviour with a Androctonus species?

Never though multiple breeders have said the A. crassicauda can be quite aggressive but I have yet to see this behavior. If I disturb the enclosure of my adult female, she blindly flees until she finds the cover of her cork bark.

 

[ScorpFreakKing666]

Have you ever seen this behaviour with a Androctonus species?

Yes. And also in a Parabuthus and Hadrurus specie.

I bought 8 A.australis years back from a reptile expo, 4 male - 4 female. Two of the females would act extremely defensive like the LQ in the video whenever you had to due general cage maintenance and they would never seek cover and would constantly try to battle. Even after you have left them alone they would continue for hours in a defensive posture awaiting the next move.

I also had the exact same behavior in a P.liosoma female and H.arizonensis male.

In my personally opinion and experience with these amazing animals is even though there are certain species more prone to intense and extreme defensive behavior which could be interpreted as aggressive (I do not think these animals are aggressive, I think that they are just highly defensive) it also just comes down to individual personality. Some scorpions are just more A**holish than others!