Anal Impaction?

[Dovey]

It seems a few folks I know or whom I follow have had cases of anal impactions in their collections that resulted in fatalities in every case I'm aware of.

How big a problem is this? How rare is this condition? Have you personally dealt with an anal impaction in your collection? And if so, what did you do to treat the condition, if anything--and what was the outcome? Is this condition invariably fatal by the time we ascertain that one of our animals is suffering from it?

Also, in my home, we draw our water from a desert well, and our water is both off-the-chart Alkali and just chock-full of mineral content. My aquariums get a white lime crust around the top incredibly fast, and if I use tap water to spray glass tanks, the glass is coated with minerals almost immediatly that do not want to come off. I just sprang for a home water distillery system to avoid the cost and hassle of having to cart home distilled water from the grocery all the time, and I now have all of my snakes and spiders on distilled water just to avoid having a nasty mineral ring around all of my watering dishes and on the sides of my habitats.

Which has gotten me thinking: is there any possibility that mineral sediment in our water supply could be contributing to cases of impaction? I know that Drs. here in Arizona believe that drinking our well water can certainly contribute to the development of kidney stones in humans. Is it at all possible that the same could be true for blockages in spiders?

Could it be something we are feeding them? Could chitin levels affect the development of impactions?

I don't know enough about tarantula physiology to even formulate an opinion, but only to postulate a hypothesis. All the same, I thought I would do so. This seems like just such a sad and troubling condition for members of the hobby to have to face. I'm just wondering how widespread a condition it is and if there is anything at all to be done about it.

 

[Venom1080]

I've had a violaceopes that dropped dead in two days with no warning. Impaction is a likely candidate.

Impaction is thought by some to occur when a piece of an old molt becomes stuck on the anus.

 

[miss moxie]

I have very hard water where I live, and so far I have not had any impaction issues. It does seem to be happening more and more frequently around here-- though it's possible that it happened just as frequently in the past and we're only just now becoming aware of it and looking for it. In every case of impaction I have seen here, it resulted in death even after the owner was able to unblock them and extract great quantities of feces from them. Why this happens? We still don't know. But I suspect that it has to do with a build up of toxins. Waste is full of toxins in every living creature, and something similar happened to a cat of mine. If you look into blocked bladders in cats, you'll see that it is fairly common-- especially in male cats because they have very narrow urethras and it doesn't take much to stop it up.

In my cat's case, he slunk off in his misery and I had no idea because this is the same cat who has run outside on multiple occasions when people are going in and out. I thought he'd gotten out without anyone noticing and was gone, but my dog wouldn't leave this corner in my father's library alone which prompted me to investigate. There he was, in very poor condition. I got him to the vet and when they did blood tests they found out his kidneys were struggling and toxins were building up inside of him-- just because he couldn't urinate for a couple of days. If it had gone on much longer his kidneys would have totally failed. As it stands, he is doing very well now and is on a special urinary diet.

But I digress-- my point is that it would make sense that a fecal impaction in tarantulas would result in a build up of toxins inside of them. It's also possible that a very large impaction could burst their digestive tract, leaking feces inside of their bodies or it might even crush their other vital organs. At this point however it is all just educated guesses. No one knows why impaction kills Ts even after they're unblocked.

@Blue Jaye @KezyGLA and @Tomoran are all members I remember facing this issue, unblocking that T, and having it die on them in the end. I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

 

[Sarkhan42]

I'll +1 that I've never heard of a T making a full recovery after impaction, but I myself have never had a T suffer that way. My water is relatively pure at home and we get distilled out of the lab at school, but who knows if that actually contributes to impaction. I like the idea of using this thread to consolidate the information we've got. The people Miss Moxie has tagged are definitely the cases that come to mind when the topic comes up, hopefully we can get more info.

 

[KezyGLA]

I had an adult female B. emilia die on me soon after I unblocked a fair amount of excrement.

I believe the issue was down to a bad moult previously causing a blockage of sorts.

I live in Scotland where the water is pretty much the purest.

 

[cold blood]

my point is that it would make sense that a fecal impaction in tarantulas would result in a build up of toxins inside of them

Which, speculatively, could be yet another of the unknown reasons or causes of DKS symptoms.

I'd bet many impaction deaths go unrealized as such.

 

[Dovey]

Yeah, I know that there's a very close correlation between, for instance, lungs livers and kidneys in mammals, and that a little problem with your lungs can lead to liver and kidney failure in very short order.

I'm just wondering what it would take to come to understand how tarantula digestion works and how, when it doesn't work, a failure has occurred.

And obviously, I would like to know if anyone who has had a spider suffer from an impaction was consistantly using distilled water, rather than tap water--and also what animals they were using as feeders. Perhaps chitin levels have something to do with the problem???

I don't believe we can put together a large enough survey group to reach a defensible statistical outcome, but data is never a bad thing to have. If enough people can report on their experiences, a clearer picture will eventually emerge. I'm a big believer in empirical evidence when scholarly research is unavailable.

That belief was upheld recently, BTW, when my orthopedic surgeon recommended a boneset poultice for an injured knee over surgery and months of therapy. "This tends to work," he said, "though we don't know why." My herbalist grandma would have been so proud!

 

[Dovey]

I had an adult female B. emilia die on me soon after I unblocked a fair amount of excrement.

I believe the issue was down to a bad moult previously causing a blockage of sorts.

I live in Scotland where the water is pretty much the purest.

 

[Dovey]

Can you tell us what makes you believe it was a bad molt? Did You observe that she was having difficulty molting, or did you see part of her old molt still attached to the area around her anus or spinnerets?

 

[Dovey]

I've had a violaceopes that dropped dead in two days with no warning. Impaction is a likely candidate.

Impaction is thought by some to occur when a piece of an old molt becomes stuck on the anus.

Did you have any visual evidence to make you believe this was the case for your spider? Or are you making an educated guess?

And don't get me wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with an educated guess!

 

[KezyGLA]

Can you tell us what makes you believe it was a bad molt? Did You observe that she was having difficulty molting, or did you see part of her old molt still attached to the area around her anus or spinnerets?

Her setae looked very rough and distorted. The prior molt was likely a wet moult.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

There's too much that we don't know about the impaction issue, sadly, but one thing, for sure: that's not a 'myth' like SADS, if you ask me.

Personally, while can happens as well to not so 'fatty' T's, I tend to keep mines on the 'regular-slim' side... IMO too much feeding can be one of the causes of that. We should remember that the inverts we love to keep in captivity at our homes, well fed and nurtured, in the wild eat when they can. Sometimes we tend to forgot this.

A previous molt that wasn't 'great' like we thought. And other issues we aren't aware of.

 

[darkness975]

Internal organ damage as a result of a wet molt or trauma is also a possible cause for the development of impaction.

 

[Dovey]

Wet molts: now there's another condition that could use some meta-analysis.

 

[boina]

The water around here is exactly the opposite of what you describe: very acidic and low in minerals. I still had a spider death that I strongly suspect to have been from impaction.

I cannot imagine chitin content having anything to do with it either - after all chitin does not get ingested at all.

Did you read @Blue Jaye s thread about her P. hanumavillasumica to the end? She dissected the spider and found old exuvia stuck to the anus. I think this is the most likely explanation for all cases I know of. We know that the sucking stomach can fail to molt properly and the old exuvia rip off and get stuck inside the spider so it makes sense to think that this can happen at the other end of the spider, too.

 

[Lokee85]

Reading this thread makes me sad... I've been highly suspicious for the past couple of days that my daughter's 1.75" B. albo is impacted. At first, I thought she was in normal premolt, albeit for longer than expected, but for the past couple of days, her abdomen has looked oddly shaped and swollen (not just premolt fat). Still, I just hoped for the best and prayed it was just a long premolt...

However, I was just looking in on everyone and noticed a LOT of poo underneath and around her and some still dripping out. I'm fairly certain now it's impaction, and from what I've read so far, the prognosis isn't good.

This is very upsetting because my daughter absolutely adores her babies, and no one wants to give their child sad news about their beloved pet... I'm going to hold out hope, but I'm pretty sure I know where this is going.

 

[Dovey]

Say a little prayer, keep your fingers crossed, light some smudge sticks, rub a crystal, whatever Juju you follow in these matters. If an orifice can become impacted spontaneously, in theory it can become unimpacted just as spontaneously. Perhaps she has passed the blockage.

Do you have any pictures of her condition or her waste? Might help others to diagnose your spider's condition or recognise the condition in future.

Sidebar re: juju, as a long-term Christian agnostic, I do have to say the Lord and I have had vastly more conversations about the health of wee spiders in the last three or four years than about our nation's soul and center. I guess we all get the "foxhole of the soul" we deserve, that special place where you have to ask yourself what it is you really believe and where/when it is you would gladly accept Devine intervention. For me, that has been that awful, helpless moment--usually between 2 and 3 AM--when I think I can see where a situation is headed with a little creature, and it isn't anywhere good. I'll say a little prayer for your dear daughter's wee spider.

 

[Lokee85]

Say a little prayer, keep your fingers crossed, light some smudge sticks, rub a crystal, whatever Juju you follow in these matters. If an orifice can become impacted spontaneously, in theory it can become unimpacted just as spontaneously. Perhaps she has passed the blockage.

Do you have any pictures of her condition or her waste? Might help others to diagnose your spider's condition or recognise the condition in future.

Sidebar re: juju, as a long-term Christian agnostic, I do have to say the Lord and I have had vastly more conversations about the health of wee spiders in the last three or four years than about our nation's soul and center. I guess we all get the "foxhole of the soul" we deserve, that special place where you have to ask yourself what it is you really believe and where/when it is you would gladly accept Devine intervention. For me, that has been that awful, helpless moment--usually between 2 and 3 AM--when I think I can see where a situation is headed with a little creature, and it isn't anywhere good. I'll say a little prayer for your dear daughter's wee spider.

I don't have any pics, all I have is a cheap cell phone that doesn't take good pics at all. She seems to be doing ok, her abdomen is noticably smaller (doesn't have that swollen appearance so much anymore), and she's still active and drinking water. I'm thinking about offering her a mealworm although she is also still in premolt and probably won't take it. I'll definitely let you all know what happens.

 

[Andrea82]

I had a one inch legspan H.pulchripes sling die of impaction. Refused to eat, next day i found it dead with poo spilling out if it.
Our water isn't especially mineral rich or something and nothing is added.

 

[Lokee85]

Update on my daughter's sling: so far, she appears to be doing well. It's been 10 days since I discovered what I'm almost certain was an impaction. For days previous, her abdomen had a swollen, misshapen appearance, more than just premolt fat. The night of Mar. 23-24, I found her with a large amount of cream/tan colored liquid poo around her and leaking sideways out of her anus, as if there was a blockage. She leaked for the next day or two, and hasn't since.

Days later, her abdomen is way smaller than it was, and she looks like normal premolt now. She still walks around and drinks water. She hasn't eaten anything offered, but I wasn't expecting her too, as she's still in premolt. I'm hoping she molts soon and all is well. I feel like her molt will be the ultimate test of whether she will survive or not, but I'm becoming more hopeful with each day she continues to be alive.