Aggressive Versicolor or just likes the sound of my voice?

[phoebe12483]

It is possible that it is in the settling in phase of a new enclosure, it is also possible that it is approaching premolt, or it could just be hungry, but there is not a way to truly know why it is acting so defensively.


What is ghost wood, if you don't mind me asking? Glad I could be of assistance.

So it does appear that the behavior is correlated with hunger. She has been much calmer and less apt to respond to the vibration of low voices after eating, making me feel substantially better about going in and doing some cage changes!

In terms of her set up, I have been concerned about ventilation problems, however the mold is totally isolated to the part of the drift wood that is sitting in the soil. There are ventilation holes lining the bottom of the terrarium, and the top is a full screen top. There is no way to add additional cross ventilation without drilling holes into the sides...which I could attempt, although it would be easier then to just purchase an entirely new set up.

Ghost wood I found online when searching for alternatives. I purchased it through black jungle terrarium supply. Apparently it does very well in very humid/wet conditions, so it should be able to withstand my slightly moist substrate. I was told it is highly resistant to mold, and is one of the few woods that will readily grow things like moss on it. Downside is it was quite pricey.

I have been trying to post photos, although am having errors in uploading the file image. I posted a previous thread titled "mold?! Help for a newby"
which has pics of my set up. I would love to see if you have any recommendations.

Many thanks again!

 

[curiousme]

So it does appear that the behavior is correlated with hunger. She has been much calmer and less apt to respond to the vibration of low voices after eating, making me feel substantially better about going in and doing some cage changes!

Good! A full belly can do wonders for anyone's mood, even tarantulas.

I posted in your mold thread as well.

As far as photos, I always upload them to my photobucket account and then use the IMG code to post them here.

 

[phoebe12483]

Good! A full belly can do wonders for anyone's mood, even tarantulas.

I posted in your mold thread as well.

As far as photos, I always upload them to my photobucket account and then use the IMG code to post them here.

So we got the terrarium remodel done - looks MUCH nicer. Although I have to say, I would almost call her aggressive throughout the transfer. Tried the cup technique using a paintbrush to touch the backs of her legs to edge her forward. She definitely whipped around both times and grabbed the paintbrush in her pedipalps. Finally we just did the old bug on a wall catch which she was not overtly thrilled about. BUT, no more mold and nice new set up!

I'll try photobucket and will post some updated terrarium pics

 

[curiousme]

So we got the terrarium remodel done - looks MUCH nicer. Although I have to say, I would almost call her aggressive throughout the transfer. Tried the cup technique using a paintbrush to touch the backs of her legs to edge her forward. She definitely whipped around both times and grabbed the paintbrush in her pedipalps. Finally we just did the old bug on a wall catch which she was not overtly thrilled about. BUT, no more mold and nice new set up!

I'll try photobucket and will post some updated terrarium pics

Some of ours hate the paintbrush, but aren't phased by a chopstick. Also, sometimes coming in from the side, instead of directly from behind, helps to avoid the instant pirouette.

As far as almost calling its behavior aggressive, I just want to liken your prodding to a little kid tugging on your shirt/ skirt in a department store, but every time you turned around to catch the culprit, the little guy was able to duck under a circular rack of clothes and out of sight....... you would most likely get pretty frustrated and you can see more than light or dark. You might even start to get a little scared, so when a grown up, who notices your odd behavior, comes and taps you on your shoulder, you whirl around and say "WHAT?". Defensive would be a better descriptor of your Ts behavior, perhaps defensively aggressive, but defensive none the less.

I'm glad that you were able to get the remodeling done without any terribly big issues. I look forward to the pictures.

 

[phoebe12483]

Some of ours hate the paintbrush, but aren't phased by a chopstick. Also, sometimes coming in from the side, instead of directly from behind, helps to avoid the instant pirouette.

As far as almost calling its behavior aggressive, I just want to liken your prodding to a little kid tugging on your shirt/ skirt in a department store, but every time you turned around to catch the culprit, the little guy was able to duck under a circular rack of clothes and out of sight....... you would most likely get pretty frustrated and you can see more than light or dark. You might even start to get a little scared, so when a grown up, who notices your odd behavior, comes and taps you on your shoulder, you whirl around and say "WHAT?". Defensive would be a better descriptor of your Ts behavior, perhaps defensively aggressive, but defensive none the less.

Okay, fair enough The descriptor does seem to put things in a bit of perspective and is helpful for me in terms of being able to differentiate what constitutes defensive vs aggressive behavior in tarantulas. What is ironic about putting all these little behavior pieces together is that I have a degree in zoology with a focus on animal behavior! (although we're talking primarily mammels here). It makes the introduction to a species that I am totally unfamiliar with an exciting experience. If this is defensive, what behaviors for a tarantula would be considered aggressive? Is there a way to "work" with her to reduce the degree to which she is defensive and if so, would it even be advisable? Again - not wanting to transition this into a handling thread as it is not my intent to take her out for play time, but it would be nice to reach a place where if she ends up on me, its not just after she has attacked the paintbrush Although sounds like she might just be a strictly no touch versi.

 

[curiousme]

Okay, fair enough The descriptor does seem to put things in a bit of perspective and is helpful for me in terms of being able to differentiate what constitutes defensive vs aggressive behavior in tarantulas. What is ironic about putting all these little behavior pieces together is that I have a degree in zoology with a focus on animal behavior! (although we're talking primarily mammels here). It makes the introduction to a species that I am totally unfamiliar with an exciting experience. If this is defensive, what behaviors for a tarantula would be considered aggressive? Is there a way to "work" with her to reduce the degree to which she is defensive and if so, would it even be advisable? Again - not wanting to transition this into a handling thread as it is not my intent to take her out for play time, but it would be nice to reach a place where if she ends up on me, its not just after she has attacked the paintbrush Although sounds like she might just be a strictly no touch versi.

I wouldn't call any tarantula aggressive. Any behavior that you could misconstrue as aggressive, can be traced back to something the human did to cause a defensive reaction in an animal that runs off instinct. Air currents and pressure changes from opening an enclosure are picked up by the hundreds of little sensory 'hairs' that are all over them. Vibrations are picked up the same way.

There are species that are definitely more defensive than others and I would even go so far as saying they are defensively aggressive, but they cannot see you, they cannot form the thought to make a decision to hurt you, it is instinct. When a big gush of air suddenly occurs outside its home, what do you think instinct would trigger it to do? Some it triggers to back down the burrow, or farther back in the tube web; but others it triggers the need to defend its home from what it is perceiving as a possibly large threat. Since it is unable to simply step out of its hiding place and shake a fist at you while yelling "Get off my lawn!", it rushes out and throws a threat display and tries to intimidate that threat. I don't consider that aggressive behavior, but I am NOT trying to start a defensive v. aggressive sidetrack, so lets not take that road folks.

Tarantula cannot be tamed like mammals or reptiles, so there is no way to reliably calm yours down. However, the calmer you learn to be, the calmer the T tends to be. You say that you don't wish to handle and that is the safest choice for both you and the tarantula. Plus, the T gets nothing from the handling, so it is purely for your benefit and entertainment. It is also the quickest way to have a run away, or for the T to have a fall/ accident resulting in injury. That being said, we do handle ours on occasion. It is not an every day, or even an every month occurrence, but we do handle. Some of ours can take being handled without showing too much stress outwardly, but others pout or act stressed for days, or even weeks after. Our A. purpurea being the worst of the bunch. It took it an entire month to finally stop pouting and we will not be handling it again, unless absolutely necessary. I wouldn't call yours a no touch T yet. It hasn't settled in, or even begun a web, so give it a month or so and if you want to try and handle, then see how its temperament is.

 

[phoebe12483]

There are species that are definitely more defensive than others and I would even go so far as saying they are defensively aggressive, but they cannot see you, they cannot form the thought to make a decision to hurt you, it is instinct. When a big gush of air suddenly occurs outside its home, what do you think instinct would trigger it to do? Some it triggers to back down the burrow, or farther back in the tube web; but others it triggers the need to defend its home from what it is perceiving as a possibly large threat. Since it is unable to simply step out of its hiding place and shake a fist at you while yelling "Get off my lawn!", it rushes out and throws a threat display and tries to intimidate that threat. I don't consider that aggressive behavior, but I am NOT trying to start a defensive v. aggressive sidetrack, so lets not take that road folks.

It's funny how the analogies help in terms of understanding what is a completely natural response, one which is not too dissimilar to our own in what might be a comparable situation.

Tarantula cannot be tamed like mammals or reptiles, so there is no way to reliably calm yours down. However, the calmer you learn to be, the calmer the T tends to be. You say that you don't wish to handle and that is the safest choice for both you and the tarantula. Plus, the T gets nothing from the handling, so it is purely for your benefit and entertainment. It is also the quickest way to have a run away, or for the T to have a fall/ accident resulting in injury. That being said, we do handle ours on occasion. It is not an every day, or even an every month occurrence, but we do handle. Some of ours can take being handled without showing too much stress outwardly, but others pout or act stressed for days, or even weeks after. Our A. purpurea being the worst of the bunch. It took it an entire month to finally stop pouting and we will not be handling it again, unless absolutely necessary. I wouldn't call yours a no touch T yet. It hasn't settled in, or even begun a web, so give it a month or so and if you want to try and handle, then see how its temperament is.

Not that I would go so far to feeling it necessary to try this, but would she (or tarantulas in general) be responsive to desensitization if your saying they are not capable of being tamed? With the repeated stimulus of say a paintbrush, will they not reach a place where they think "what's the point? There's never anything actually there?" I would actually love to reach a place where should I choose to take her out just to take her out, that I feel comfortable to do so. (I have been intentionally avoiding what could develop into a handling thread, as I am really more interested in understanding the behavior associated with our interactions with Ts..but it would be nice to hold her when I DO have to do the occasional maintenance I do agree that my anxiety is certainly not helping. I think it's definitely a good idea to hold off for a bit until she is more established. After stressing her out, it does seem to take at least a day or two for her to go back to "normal." Do you typically notice a significant temperament change associated re-housings/environment changes?

 

[curiousme]

It's funny how the analogies help in terms of understanding what is a completely natural response, one which is not too dissimilar to our own in what might be a comparable situation.

It is a subject I have put alot of thought into, so I am glad the analogies helped. Many people see the threat displays, slapping and striking and make the decision that their T must be aggressive. I say watch their behavior as you do anything to their enclosure and I'll bet there was something you did, that has caused a defensive reaction. And sometimes you won't be able to figure it out, because you are not the tarantula.

Not that I would go so far to feeling it necessary to try this, but would she (or tarantulas in general) be responsive to desensitization if your saying they are not capable of being tamed? With the repeated stimulus of say a paintbrush, will they not reach a place where they think "what's the point? There's never anything actually there?"

Are we talking about during an entire incident, or from one incident to the next? I would answer yes, to the former and no, to the latter. Some eventually become somewhat complacent to being gently prodded along with a chopstick, after they have 'gotten used to it/ decided it isn't a threat/ just want it to go away, so they take a few steps away to see if it will follow/ I really am just anthropomorphizing at this point...... Ours never seem to remember it from one incident to another, but we do things like that very little.

I would actually love to reach a place where should I choose to take her out just to take her out, that I feel comfortable to do so.

The only way to feel more comfortable, is to read as many of the HUNDREDS of handling advice threads as you feel you need to for tips and advice to not do it. Then when you have read yourself satisfied, the rest is simply practice. You get better by doing it. My tip to you is not to breathe on them. Turn your head away and blow away from them, even for little exhales. Your breath can cause it to startle/ bolt. I learned that one the hard way.

(I have been intentionally avoiding what could develop into a handling thread,

^ for emphasis

as I am really more interested in understanding the behavior associated with our interactions with Ts..but it would be nice to hold her when I DO have to do the occasional maintenance

Those are the times that we handle. Rehousings, or the occasional tank/ plant maintenance when they decide to come out, are really it for our hands on with them.

I do agree that my anxiety is certainly not helping.

I got to the point where it was soothing and calming to handle, but I had been terrified of tarantulas since I was young.

I think it's definitely a good idea to hold off for a bit until she is more established. After stressing her out, it does seem to take at least a day or two for her to go back to "normal." Do you typically notice a significant temperament change associated re-housings/environment changes?

Your T is still settling in to its new environment. The time in which this is accomplished can vary from days to months, depending on the T. If you rehouse it, that process is started all over again. If you remove something that their home was built on, then you will possibly cause the same thing. Some of our Ts pout(knees over head), some get skittish and some get a bit defensive. The one thing I can guarantee though, is that it will be something that the tarantula understands, even if you don't. Trust that it knows what it is doing, because human rules just don't apply to tarantulas, in almost all circumstances.

 

[Hobo]

Here's a relavent thread (with regards to tarantulas reacting to noises).
Also includes a cool vid of some pokies and crinkling envelopes.

 

[phoebe12483]

okay I gotta post a video

Here's a relavent thread (with regards to tarantulas reacting to noises).
Also includes a cool vid of some pokies and crinkling envelopes.

Thanks! This was a hard thread to search for prior to my starting this one, so it's nice to know I'm not the only one.
I'm going to try and post a video this weekend of mine. She doesn't just move quickly towards the sound of his voice, she literally jumps at his face. Thus far its been 100% of the time correlated with hunger. Still can't get her to do it for me, nor does paper work. Not as though we are sitting in front of her set up crunching paper all the time or anything, as there is no need to envoke the behavior regularly, but when your just stopping by and saying hi you forget that your voice alone triggers her!;P

---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------

Are we talking about during an entire incident, or from one incident to the next? I would answer yes, to the former and no, to the latter. Some eventually become somewhat complacent to being gently prodded along with a chopstick, after they have 'gotten used to it/ decided it isn't a threat/ just want it to go away, so they take a few steps away to see if it will follow/ I really am just anthropomorphizing at this point...... Ours never seem to remember it from one incident to another, but we do things like that very little.

I guess I was referring to either, but more the latter. Interesting

I got to the point where it was soothing and calming to handle, but I had been terrified of tarantulas since I was young.

Yup...that's me Living in Australia can do WONDERS for your arachnophobia though. You either leave, or gradually get used to them...or suffer I suppose.

Your T is still settling in to its new environment. The time in which this is accomplished can vary from days to months, depending on the T. If you rehouse it, that process is started all over again. If you remove something that their home was built on, then you will possibly cause the same thing. Some of our Ts pout(knees over head), some get skittish and some get a bit defensive. The one thing I can guarantee though, is that it will be something that the tarantula understands, even if you don't. Trust that it knows what it is doing, because human rules just don't apply to tarantulas, in almost all circumstances.

I'm curious if her reaction to the move has just been an increase in defensiveness on her part. I have since gone back and spoken with the tarantula guys at the reptile/tarantula store, and they were suprised to hear that she has been acting this way. That being said, we have drastically different levels of experience and what we define as comfortable. I have seen the guys in there work with and handle stuff I wouldn't dare work with...yet So the degree to which she may or may not have become more defensive is subjective, although from what I have observed I would say it is noticable. Eats like a champ though so she must be happy enough!

 

[ornamentalist]

we have 6 pokie slings and the p.regalis goes like a spinning top when it hears a bag of crisps being eaten. I thought it was just a strange one-off as none of the others reacted to such a noise, but i tried it again and it spins really fast, as if desparately trying to locate the source of the noise and nail it. The others arent bothered by it. Just the mental regalis that sits on the side of the tub, upside down, with its abdomen arched backward. Hard to explain what it looks like, i wil post a pic of some of the strange, painful looking positions it seems to enjoy standing in next time it does one