Advice on draining Zilla's cyst/growth needed!

[robc]

Well, I tried to lubricate Zilla's anal area hoping she was just impacted and it might help relieve some of the pressure on her abdomen but it didn't seem to help at all. I'm now thinking I need to attempt to drain the fluid out of the cyst (or whatever it is).

I'm certainly not a vet and I definately do not know all of the internal workings of a tarantula - not many do. But I'm hoping someone on here will have some advice on exactly where to insert a needle to help relieve the pressure and not injure her further. Also, would it be necessary to suck the fluid out with a hyperdemic needle or could I simply use a steralized needle and put a small hole in her abdomen to let the fluid drain out on it's own (sealing it afterwards of course). Any advice would be much appreciated! We deeply care for her and want to help her any way we can. Thank you!!

Here is a pic taken a few weeks ago - show the start of the cyst:

Here is a video of her abdomen now - it feels rubbery when lightly touched. Almost like a childs rubber air-filled ball would feel (not trying to be silly but that's the closest thing we could come up with for how it feels):

[youtube]gUq5hiPMK7I[/youtube]

Here are some pics I just took:

And here is the underside of her abdomen. I'm not sure what this black spot is - my thought was that it was perhaps her new exo forming. She is due for a molt:

Close up of the same area:

Any and all help is truly appreciated!!

Robc

 

[Boanerges]

I am sorry to see this Rob I have not been on here for awhile as I got out of tarantulas for the most part but I am starting to get back into the swing of things now. Sadly I can't offer you any advice but I did want to say I wish you the best of luck and I hope she is okay.

 

[robc]

I am sorry to see this Rob I have not been on here for awhile as I got out of tarantulas for the most part but I am starting to get back into the swing of things now. Sadly I can't offer you any advice but I did want to say I wish you the best of luck and I hope she is okay.

Thank you, I greatly appreciate that!

 

[xhexdx]

Ryan is the guy to contact.

If she's due for a molt, then making any kind of puncture may cause her to bleed out (assuming you puncture both the old and new exo). You also don't know for sure what's under there, or what you'd be impaling.

I think if she's in premolt, you're better off waiting for the molt. She may not survive either way. I just feel like the risks are greater by trying to operate on her while she's in premolt.

Unless it's fluid and is in between her old and new exos. If that were the case though, a molt should take care of that without any assistance.

My two cents.

--Joe

 

[proper_tea]

I'm actually not sure that Zilla is pre-molt.

I had a blondi that had this exact thing happen to her. Her abdomen became enlarged and malformed, and eventually burst (killing her). She did darken, like she was pre-molt, but then it just stayed dark, and eventually burst. She made no attempt to molt.

 

[xhexdx]

Just because she made no attempt doesn't mean she wasn't in premolt.

Regardless of whether she is or not, my feeling on this is that Zilla is doomed either way. I guess all we (everyone except Rob) can do is wait and see what happens.

 

[robc]

Ryan is the guy to contact.

If she's due for a molt, then making any kind of puncture may cause her to bleed out (assuming you puncture both the old and new exo). You also don't know for sure what's under there, or what you'd be impaling.

I think if she's in premolt, you're better off waiting for the molt. She may not survive either way. I just feel like the risks are greater by trying to operate on her while she's in premolt.

Unless it's fluid and is in between her old and new exos. If that were the case though, a molt should take care of that without any assistance.

My two cents.

--Joe

Thank you Joe, these are VERY valid points!:clap:

 

[robc]

Just because she made no attempt doesn't mean she wasn't in premolt.

Regardless of whether she is or not, my feeling on this is that Zilla is doomed either way. I guess all we (everyone except Rob) can do is wait and see what happens.

I think she may be doomed I agree, but it can't hurt to try...maybe something can be learned.

 

[xhexdx]

I think she may be doomed I agree, but it can't hurt to try...maybe something can be learned.

I agree - I wasn't trying to imply you should sit around and wait, or that this thread is a waste of time - but I'm the kind of guy who is blunt and to the point, so if anyone is gonna tell you they don't think she'll make it, it might as well be me.

 

[proper_tea]

Just because she made no attempt doesn't mean she wasn't in premolt.

At least in the case with my blondi, her abdomen was black for over 3 months before it burst. I too was hoping that this was a sign that she was going to molt out of it. In this case, I don't think the darkening of the abdomen is a sign that she was pre-molt.

Here are the threads about my blondi:

T. blondi sick?
This one I posted after her abdomen had been dark for over 3 weeks.

T. blondi dying... help!
This thread is from 3 months later, when her abdomen finally burst.

 

[xhexdx]

Ok.

To me, neither of those spiders looks to be in premolt. I can see where the idea comes from with Zilla, based on that dark spot, but if she were in premolt (at least in heavy premolt), I'd think that entire bald spot on her abdomen would be much darker than it is.

Either way, it looks to me more like it's something that's not separate from the rest of her abdomen (like a cyst might be), but something that's more involved with her innards and wouldn't be able to be lanced and drained.

 

[proper_tea]

I think it might also be a function of the flash. My spider's abdomen looked way darker in person than in those pictures. But... maybe that's a good thing to look for when trying to tell the difference between a spider with a condition like what Rob's spider has, and my spider has, and normal pre-molt conditions: the effects of a flash can be revealing.

 

[SRirish]

Well it seems that the 2 most obvious choices you are are to either try to drain the cyst or wait and keep doing what you're doing, watching closely and and "lubing" her up like you have been.

In my opinion I would simply wait for a little while, see if anything else comes up, like a molt or another black spot. There might be a point where you just have to go all in and hope for the best though. Either way I wish the best of luck for you and Zilla.

 

[Fran]

Hey Rob,

This sure sucks. It sucks when you do nothing wrong and out of the blue they pull one like this.

What I would do? Not really sure. The problem is that since we have no clue what that is , you might kill her trying to drain it.

As Joe pointed out, it might be something on her insides.

If it was something like a "simple" liquid..like an abcess,maybe letting her molt could be better than anything else.

It is hard. I would not "operate". If she does make it , it will be a huge relief, but if you try to "operate" and for whatever reason you kinda speed up the death you will be even more sorry.

PS: If you end up trying to help her, im sure you know this, but get a tinny ridiculously tinny needle and stick it in as least as possible.

 

[Shell]

PS: If you end up trying to help her, im sure you know this, but get a tinny ridiculously tinny needle and stick it in as least as possible.

Yeah, a tiny needle for sure. Most vets carry some pretty tiny needles, we used to carry up to 24 guage that we used on newborn kittens for IV fluids, but you can get smaller even. Also, if you did attempt this, go at an angle so it's just barely under the top of the growth. I would have to agree with what's been said though and not attempt this unless it was a last effort kind of thing. It's just too hard to say what that mass is made up of.

 

[robc]

I agree - I wasn't trying to imply you should sit around and wait, or that this thread is a waste of time - but I'm the kind of guy who is blunt and to the point, so if anyone is gonna tell you they don't think she'll make it, it might as well be me.

I knew you didn't mean it that way and I do appreciate the honesty. False hope can be bad sometimes. I'm trying to stay as positive about the out-come as I can but in the back on my mind, I'm thinking along the same lines as you.

 

[Thompson08]

I really wouldn't risk it. My H. mac had almost the same thing your girl has. She molted out of just fine. You wouldn't want her abdomen to rupture from doing this! Crossin my fingers for you rob!

 

[robc]

Ok.

To me, neither of those spiders looks to be in premolt. I can see where the idea comes from with Zilla, based on that dark spot, but if she were in premolt (at least in heavy premolt), I'd think that entire bald spot on her abdomen would be much darker than it is.

Either way, it looks to me more like it's something that's not separate from the rest of her abdomen (like a cyst might be), but something that's more involved with her innards and wouldn't be able to be lanced and drained.

I totally understand what you are saying and that is my fear but when I look at her abdomen with a flashlight held close to her, you can almost see through the fluid...almost like it's outside of her new forming exo. But I can't know that for a fact and that's the bad part. You could be entirely right...and we just don't know. She could be hemorrhaging internally. She can't walk well - like she's out of pressure to move correctly so that makes me think she's bleeding internally. She just seems more sluggish each day. She starts to curl a little but then moves out of it and she can't lift her abdomen at all any more - she just pulls it around behind her. I was thinking that maybe she was forming her new exo and possibly took a fall and ruptured her new one so she's bleeding into her old one. That's just one thought I have....I've been trying to figure it out but there's just not much to go on without seeing inside. My wife is a Chiropractic Assistant and her boss has a digital x-ray machine that puts out very low radiation. She's going to ask him tomorrow morning if we can x-ray Zilla up there and I can post the pics. Might not show anything but it might be a learning experience regardless. Who knows....the thought just popped in my head. Also, this all started just after she laid a dud sac....maybe just a coincidence or maybe it's related? Just throwing it out there.

Hey Rob,

This sure sucks. It sucks when you do nothing wrong and out of the blue they pull one like this.

What I would do? Not really sure. The problem is that since we have no clue what that is , you might kill her trying to drain it.

As Joe pointed out, it might be something on her insides.

If it was something like a "simple" liquid..like an abcess,maybe letting her molt could be better than anything else.

It is hard. I would not "operate". If she does make it , it will be a huge relief, but if you try to "operate" and for whatever reason you kinda speed up the death you will be even more sorry.

PS: If you end up trying to help her, im sure you know this, but get a tinny ridiculously tinny needle and stick it in as least as possible.

Yep, that's it exactly....it's a catch 22 - if I don't do anything and she dies, I'll wonder if I should have done something. If I attempt to do something and she dies, I'll wonder if she would have been able to molt out of it. Ugh!! No right answer I don't think...I'm kind of hosed either way.

 

[xhexdx]

I suppose there's a possibility that an egg blocked her up, but I don't see how that would affect anything else other than additional egg production/sac dropping abilities.

 

[robc]

Yeah, a tiny needle for sure. Most vets carry some pretty tiny needles, we used to carry up to 24 guage that we used on newborn kittens for IV fluids, but you can get smaller even. Also, if you did attempt this, go at an angle so it's just barely under the top of the growth. I would have to agree with what's been said though and not attempt this unless it was a last effort kind of thing. It's just too hard to say what that mass is made up of.

Yeah....trying to figure out where I'd insert a needle is difficult. I'd figure somewhere near where the growth started in the first place. But again, just a guess really...