65 different proteins

gumby

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So I was just watching a TV show called animal oddities. It showed Martin hunting Goliath bird eaters no scientific name was given that I remember but they were up in French Guyana. At one point they stated that "Goliath bird eaters had 65 different proteins as toxins". I was wondering if all tarantulas carried the same number of toxins and if those toxins are ment to all target different animals or the combination of the toxins are what works together to create a venom that works well against most animals?
 

codykrr

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Im not sure, but do you mean Martin as in Tarcan?
 

LadySharon

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Ok this confuses me. It's been stated many times on here by high posters who most likely quoted experts (but I generaly don't recall people's names) taht T venum doesn't HAVE complete proteins which is why you can't be allergic to it. So the info posted in the op seems countradictory to me.


Anyone?
 

webbedone

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I am a bit at a loss myself. But i am sure that if a number can be placed (on the protiens in the venom?) it would not be the same for all tarantulas since some posses more potent venom than others. And or the protiens in the venom if i understand the previous statement correctly could be completely different from one spicies to another
 

gumby

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I'm not sure if its martin tarcan it was just something I caught on TV. There was someone giving info that wasn't Martin on the program so I'm not sure how solid some of the info was
 

Bill S

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It's generally a good idea to NOT take sensationalist claims from TV adventure shows as scientific fact. Their purpose is to entertain, and are as likely to offer mythology and urban legend as scientific fact.
 

Sleazoid

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Ok this confuses me. It's been stated many times on here by high posters who most likely quoted experts (but I generaly don't recall people's names) taht T venum doesn't HAVE complete proteins which is why you can't be allergic to it. So the info posted in the op seems countradictory to me.


Anyone?
I think that all venom has protein in it. I think it might be peptides you are thinking of, I have heard some members say that tarantulas lack peptides and some say they do certainly have peptides.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=146635&highlight=allergic

This is a good read on the subject.
 
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Irfin

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I wouldn't be surprised if there were that many proteins in a T's venom. If you have even a basic background in biology you would be aware of the versatile role proteins play in organisms. For instance, your saliva alone contains more than 65 different versions of enzymes, the most commonly know being amylase, all for the purpose of initiating the process of digestion. Enzymes are proteins but not all proteins are enzymes. Enzymes are proteins that catalyze a specific chemical reaction, aka lower the activation energy allowing an otherwise unavailable increase in reaction rate. You will have to ask the biochemist studying T venom but my guess based on my background in chemistry is that there are probably even more than 65, rather that "they" have only identified and classified 65 to this date. The question is who is spending their time identifying the components of T venom. I can think of two purposes; medical treatment of T bites and, probably more funded, potential pharmaceutical applications.

So, my response as a professional chemist is, yes, it's highly likely.
 

Irfin

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Peptides = short chains of amino acids
Proteins = longer chains of amino acids usually with higher levels of conformation, sometimes including the combination of smaller peptide units.
 

Irfin

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You can be allergic to a variety of molecules; it has to do with your specific immune system. You can have allergic reactions to:
Proteins
Peptides (essential same thing)
sugars
fats
ionic salts
And...
Pretty much everything else under the sun. The lack of "peptides" does not confer a lack of an immune response. The immune system, however, does tend to respond quickly and intensely to the action of enzymes, specifically those that interfere with normal cellular and physiological processes. For instance, a bee sting will trigger the localized release of histamine causing inflammation. AKA take bendryl, an anti-histamine. There are too many levels of immune response to write about here. Realize that if a T bites you, your response, whether grand or minute, is an allergic response.

Anything that bites you will introduce:
Proteins / peptides
Sugars
Electrolytes, aka ions
lipids
nucleic acids (RNA / DNA)

My radioactive dog bit me and now I have a bruise; I can smell dog crap a mile away.
 

Travis K

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T venom supposedly has short(er) protein chains (ie, peptides) than spiders, bees, etc., and thus goes the theory that it is practically impossible for ones body to create a histamine response. I am not a biochemist and am also too busy at work or lazy(pick one) to search out prior threads and the internet for sources, but that is the basic 'word on the street' regarding T venom.

Cheers,
 

webbedone

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An allergic reaction is an abnormal reaction of the body to a previously encountered allergen introduced by inhalation, ingestion, injection, or skin contact, often manifested by itchy eyes, runny nose, wheezing, skin rash, diarrhea. In case of Tarantula bites - : inflamation, localized pain, joint pain, head aches, nausea, or in severe cases problems breathing and heart problems. Thusly by definition human body immune system responce to a tarantula's bite cannot be classified as an allergic reaction.

Histamine is an organic nitrogen compound involved in local immune responses as well as regulating physiological function in the gut and acting as a neurotransmitter(transmit nerve impulses across a synapse to a postsynaptic element, as another nerve, muscle, or gland).Histamine triggers the inflammatory response. As part of an immune response to FOREIGN PATHOGENS. Histamine increases the permeability of the capillaries to white blood cells and other proteins(Triggers Foreign Body Alert and tells the body to send white bloodcells to attack), in order to allow them to engage foreign invaders in the infected tissues. I would say that in case Tarantula's WET BITE, when T actually injects venom and T venum being a foreign pathagen the body will tigger a histamine responce!
 

Travis K

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Hey travis! I DISAGREE!!!
I do not agree or disagree with my previous post. I, in the simplest of terms, stated what the 'general' thought is on the subject.


Maybe a more defined question like... "Can one develop Anaphylaxis in response to tarantula envenomation?" In which most people I would consider 'knowledgeable' in the hobby would say "no". Nor am I aware of any instance of Anaphylaxis or anaphylactic type reactions after one has been bitten by any species of tarantula.

Which brings me to the point of 'venom allergies'. Personally I consider one 'allergic' to any type of injectable toxin(venom) if they react to said envenomation with Anaphylaxis. Again most of the knowledgeable persons in the hobby are under the impression that do to the simplicity of the protein chains or peptides the human body is not able to create a response that would bring on Anaphylaxis.

Kind regards,
 
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