2nd moult in 3 months...

[rcc52]

Hi,
I posted early March about my Chilean rose who was stuck in moult. I was advised to turn her over. I did. She completed her moult with 1 front leg missing and the one behind it had the top part in tact, but the (majority) lower part was withered.

She seems to have been fine since.. but she's now moulting again!?
At first I thought she was dying. But on closer inspection I could see loads of legs, that I couldn't figure out, then I saw her abdomen shell on the floor. That scared me a bit, I really thought she was dying, dropping to bits
But now, day 2, I can see clearly her abdomen and back legs are free, there's a bunch of empty legs there, but I can't make out her head...
Should I leave her or help her?

 

[Mustafa67]

Hi,
I posted early March about my Chilean rose who was stuck in moult. I was advised to turn her over. I did. She completed her moult with 1 front leg missing and the one behind it had the top part in tact, but the (majority) lower part was withered.

She seems to have been fine since.. but she's now moulting again!?
At first I thought she was dying. But on closer inspection I could see loads of legs, that I couldn't figure out, then I saw her abdomen shell on the floor. That scared me a bit, I really thought she was dying, dropping to bits
But now, day 2, I can see clearly her abdomen and back legs are free, there's a bunch of empty legs there, but I can't make out her head...
Should I leave her or help her?

WAIT

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

I see her old carapace laying there on the left of the photo. Which part appears to be stuck? Are her fangs out?

 

[viper69]

WAIT!!

 

[rcc52]

WAIT

I'm shocked she's gone into moult again so very soon after her last one? Thats why i thought she was dying...

I see her old carapace laying there on the left of the photo. Which part appears to be stuck? Are her fangs out?

I don't know if she's actually stuck right now, but I can't see her head, so no idea about her fangs... this is day 2 or 3 not sure

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

I don't know if she's actually stuck right now, but I can't see her head, so no idea about her fangs... this is day 2 or 3 not sure

When you say head are you referring to her chelicerae? The top part where her eyes are has already popped off.

 

[rcc52]

When you say head are you referring to her chelicerae? The top part where her eyes are has already popped off.

I can't see that seems to be underneath a shedded part. It's like her abdomen and back end are free, but the rest is covered with her moulted exoskeleton.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Has she moved at all now? Is it possible to get a different angle on her? Stick your phone to her other side? You said it’s been a couple of days, correct?

 

[rcc52]

Has she moved at all now? Is it possible to get a different angle on her? Stick your phone to her other side? You said it’s been a couple of days, correct?

She's moved... so got this photo but I still can't make out if her head is free.. though it looks like most of her is now free. Perhaps you can make more out of it? I tried a photo from the outside but she's covered a lot of the area with webs so only got a photo of web, and dug the sort of channel you can see... so not easy

 

[fcat]

If she's not free she is stuck at the sternum, I think her carapace is out

I can't see L3 and L4 on her left side... Could you tell us what legs you can see, if any are already broken at the trochanter

I'm shocked she's gone into moult again so very soon after her last one

They can speed up the molting process to repair internal injuries, with a species like this, at her size, you would've surprised me with 2 molts in one year. I would have to dig for this but I've seen some old info that the fastest they can possibly molt again is about 3 weeks

It's a safe assumption that something was wrong, but this is her attempt at fixing it

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

I agree with fcat about the sternum. Can you open the lid and stick your phone in facing her for a pic? After 3 days, I would gently intervene, but without seeing where she is stuck for sure that makes it hard to know what to do. Do you have a soft paintbrush?

 

[rcc52]

I agree with fcat about the sternum. Can you open the lid and stick your phone in facing her for a pic? After 3 days, I would gently intervene, but without seeing where she is stuck for sure that makes it hard to know what to do. Do you have a soft paintbrush?

I was thinking about using a very large spoon and maybe scoop her out and see? We have soft paintbrushes.
But.. she's moved again.. pics attached. I still can't make out the jumble by her head. Rear end and left side look free?
I'm a bit worried for her..

 

[fcat]

Any chance you can quickly get your hands on some glycerin? Maybe from a pharmacy?

 

[rcc52]

Any chance you can quickly get your hands on some glycerin? Maybe from a pharmacy?

I think we may have some glycerin in. What would I do with it?

I think we may have some glycerin in. What would I do with it?

We also have syringes, no needle.

 

[fcat]

I think we may have some glycerin in. What would I do with it?

You'll be using it as lubrication the second someone gives you the go ahead to intervene

I'm looking for a post about stuck molts brb


Edit

Tarantula Stuck in Its Molt? Look Here for Advice

Tarantulas sometimes get stuck during molting – it happens, nobody really knows why. Accordingly there are a lot of threads that go “Help, my tarantula is stuck, what should I do?” More often than not the advice is to do nothing because ‘the tarantula knows best how to be a tarantula’. I think...

arachnoboards.com

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

It looks like she is trying to dislodge it. Don’t scoop her out, she’s soft and easily damaged. If you can lightly get a paintbrush with warm water on her stuck part or maybe even in the sub in front of her, maybe she can unstick herself.

 

[rcc52]

You'll be using it as lubrication the second someone gives you the go ahead to intervene

I'm looking for a post about stuck molts brb


Edit

Tarantula Stuck in Its Molt? Look Here for Advice

Tarantulas sometimes get stuck during molting – it happens, nobody really knows why. Accordingly there are a lot of threads that go “Help, my tarantula is stuck, what should I do?” More often than not the advice is to do nothing because ‘the tarantula knows best how to be a tarantula’. I think...

arachnoboards.com

Thank you
I think I'll need to lift her out, I can't really see where her sticking points are the way she is... but I'm sure I can try this.

It looks like she is trying to dislodge it. Don’t scoop her out, she’s soft and easily damaged. If you can lightly get a paintbrush with warm water on her stuck part or maybe even in the sub in front of her, maybe she can unstick herself.

Hmmm ok, I'll have a go without moving her. Thank you.

Hmmm ok, I'll have a go without moving her. Thank you.

Right, I think we're in a bit of a mess again....
She's moved. But it looks like a right side leg is over her back, broken? I can see one eye, and pedipalps, I think they're called? But cannot see where she's stuck because it looks like it's underneath her. It looks like legs are our but she's in a very strange position? So I don't know where to apply any water? I've cleared the area round her to get a better look. I don't think it looks good Took more pics...

 

[fcat]

Right, I think we're in a bit of a mess again....
She's moved. But it looks like a right side leg is over her back, broken? I can see one eye, and pedipalps, I think they're called? But cannot see where she's stuck because it looks like it's underneath her. It looks like legs are our but she's in a very strange position? So I don't know where to apply any water? I've cleared the area round her to get a better look. I don't think it looks good Took more pics...

You aren't going to drown her with water, but you should be very generous with it

If it were me, I would set up a barrier within her enclosure, something to contain her from bolting too far and ripping something. Even an extra generously sized clear catch cup would do.

Here's the catch. Shes still soft but is actively hardening and her new exoskeleton doesn't finish expanding until it hardens. So she's getting more trapped the longer she stays in. She also may still be pumping hemolymph in an effort to lubricate between the layers.

Larger specimens take longer to harden. Like weeks. Remember back to the last time she molted, how many days her fangs stayed white. I would assume you have that much time to act.

She moves, and tears something, she's could bleed out. You tear something trying to help, she will bleed out.

They can amputate their legs safer than we can, but the worst molts I've ever seen make it on this site, legs were lost in the process of trying to remove the exuvia. Usually post mature males molting again, the emboli get stuck.

Tarantulas can survive without fangs. They can't survive without a sternum, carapace, an intact cardiovascular system (the opposite of bleeding out), blocked book lungs, or blocked spinnerets. I don't think she can survive with an extra sternum...it would be a matter of making it to the next molt without food or water...but hey, it's a G rosea so she actually could. I mean you couldn't have picked a better specimen to not be able to eat or drink. The mouth parts started separating early in the process (they should have already anyway) so she would not be able to drink or eat. Rehydrating her is useless currently and until her new mouth parts are exposed.

WHEN you do decide to intervene/ are instructed to do so.... Gentle gentle, gentle with the water. It's going to scare her I imagine and she's going to bolt. No spraying (so be mindful when your syringe is almost empty). Start with a test drop or twelve, gradually getting near her first to see how she will react. Keep in mind she knows shes extremely vulnerable too. She should be more skittish than usual as a result. You don't want her moving to avoid you and you definitely do not want her running! The closer she gets to exhaustion, the less of a reaction she will have.

To set your expectations, in my opinion there are a few ways this could go:
1) you intervene too soon, she sustains injuries incompatible with life
2) you do nothing, and she makes it out on her own... How many hours since this started, and can you find a longer successful molt by searching here?
3) you do nothing, and she dies
4) euthanasia because someone here with lots of street credit told you she's definitely not going to make it
5) you maim her in the process of freeing her, and she survives without appendages
6) you intervene and the exuvia slides right off like a glove and you kick yourself for not doing it sooner
7) you do nothing and she drags that exuvia around for eternity if she can still eat, less time if prevents her from eating... Keep in mind you can negate her inability to capture food by prekilling it

My heart breaks for you friend. I know how helpless you feel, and the sense of futility...damned if you do, damned if you don't. No one has argued any advice here...not even to wait... Just turn your notifications on and be ready to act. The more pictures you post the merrier. I find the exposure is increased when I make them full size...make it easier for people to help you in between their full time engagements outside of the hobby.

This is the doubled edged sword of keeping Ts. In the grand scheme of of it all, there are very few things that can go wrong with them, but when they do go arwy it can be catastrophic.

 

[rcc52]

You aren't going to drown her with water, but you should be very generous with it

If it were me, I would set up a barrier within her enclosure, something to contain her from bolting too far and ripping something. Even an extra generously sized clear catch cup would do.

Here's the catch. Shes still soft but is actively hardening and her new exoskeleton doesn't finish expanding until it hardens. So she's getting more trapped the longer she stays in. She also may still be pumping hemolymph in an effort to lubricate between the layers.

Larger specimens take longer to harden. Like weeks. Remember back to the last time she molted, how many days her fangs stayed white. I would assume you have that much time to act.

She moves, and tears something, she's could bleed out. You tear something trying to help, she will bleed out.

They can amputate their legs safer than we can, but the worst molts I've ever seen make it on this site, legs were lost in the process of trying to remove the exuvia. Usually post mature males molting again, the emboli get stuck.

Tarantulas can survive without fangs. They can't survive without a sternum, carapace, an intact cardiovascular system (the opposite of bleeding out), blocked book lungs, or blocked spinnerets. I don't think she can survive with an extra sternum...it would be a matter of making it to the next molt without food or water...but hey, it's a G rosea so she actually could. I mean you couldn't have picked a better specimen to not be able to eat or drink. The mouth parts started separating early in the process (they should have already anyway) so she would not be able to drink or eat. Rehydrating her is useless currently and until her new mouth parts are exposed.

WHEN you do decide to intervene/ are instructed to do so.... Gentle gentle, gentle with the water. It's going to scare her I imagine and she's going to bolt. No spraying (so be mindful when your syringe is almost empty). Start with a test drop or twelve, gradually getting near her first to see how she will react. Keep in mind she knows shes extremely vulnerable too. She should be more skittish than usual as a result. You don't want her moving to avoid you and you definitely do not want her running! The closer she gets to exhaustion, the less of a reaction she will have.

To set your expectations, in my opinion there are a few ways this could go:
1) you intervene too soon, she sustains injuries incompatible with life
2) you do nothing, and she makes it out on her own... How many hours since this started, and can you find a longer successful molt by searching here?
3) you do nothing, and she dies
4) euthanasia because someone here with lots of street credit told you she's definitely not going to make it
5) you maim her in the process of freeing her, and she survives without appendages
6) you intervene and the exuvia slides right off like a glove and you kick yourself for not doing it sooner
7) you do nothing and she drags that exuvia around for eternity if she can still eat, less time if prevents her from eating... Keep in mind you can negate her inability to capture food by prekilling it

My heart breaks for you friend. I know how helpless you feel, and the sense of futility...damned if you do, damned if you don't. No one has argued any advice here...not even to wait... Just turn your notifications on and be ready to act. The more pictures you post the merrier. I find the exposure is increased when I make them full size...make it easier for people to help you in between their full time engagements outside of the hobby.

This is the doubled edged sword of keeping Ts. In the grand scheme of of it all, there are very few things that can go wrong with them, but when they do go arwy it can be catastrophic.

Thank you for your reply. That's very informative and I'm grateful.
I've just looked at her again and I'm shocked. I don't know what's happened but she looks like she's in two pieces with new legs attached to the discarded part... she is on her side, her legs keep waving around, but she's staying there... pics.. Is she dying?

 

[cold blood]

At day 2, its clearly stuck...waiting is the opposite of what you need to do...in fact, every hour you wait your chances of being able to help drop.