1000 spiders in a suitcase

[pinktoe23]

That's a huge fine they levyed against him though, considering he had all the paperwork.

A member from another uk forum brought up a good point that I have a feeling is the reason why they fined him so heavily and confiscated everything, despite knowing well enough that some of the species he had were not even native to Brasil. So far it seems he messed up by not following air regulations for shipping live animals in authorized packaging.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/spiders-inverts/411019-1000-spiders-suitcase-4.html

"Why has he transported them in a suit case? Is it not the case that you have to follow IATA regulations when transporting animals by air? This means then that he must have tried to get them over by the normal tourist luggage means, so if it was all legit why do this? Like I would think in 99% of all major Airports, an incoming flight that was then either meant to go to somewhere else or, the payload was meant to go on to somewhere else, and if the paper work was there all that would have happened is the manifest and the animals welfare would have been checked and then sent on no bother.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/IATA_Shippers_Certification.pdf
https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/IATA_Shippers_Instructions.pdf

Although I, much like many of you and clearly the BTS, do not condone such a large collection from the wild I still hope it all works out for him (I didn't see it actually documented that they were actually wild caught as I know some countries, like Australia, do enforce captive breeding programs).

According to the BBC, the brasilian police have said "with certainty they were not created in captivity"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8360438.stm

"The export of Brazilian animals without authorisation is banned....Police said his luggage was inspected at random after Mr Ardern arrived on a flight from Paraguay. He said he was passing through Brazil on his way back to London.

Brazilian police said he did not have authorisation from the Brazilian Institute for Environment and Renewable Resources. Carlos Magno, from the institute, said: "He said 600 spiders were of a species which is common in Paraguay but does not live in Brazil...The other 300 were of a sort which is found as much here as there. The only certainty is that they were not created in captivity..."

 

[arachnorama]

Idiot. That idiot shouldn't have done that.

 

[vvx]

Wait, he wanted to charge thousands for a single T? Get REAL dude! For a herp, yes that would work but not for tarantulas(maybe, but you'd be hanging on to those things for a while..)

In a lot of the world, the comma is used in place of the period. So 50,00 dollars is 50.00 dollars. Not 50,000.00 dollars.

 

[Jmugleston]

P.metallica too. I'd bet the originals came from smuggling. If anyone in the USA has an Australian frilled lizard, it's a decendant of a smuggled one. All of those are.

I suppose you have data to support this? More evidence supporting smuggling than descendants of legally acquired specimens before Australia closed its borders? I'm not trying to start an argument, please don't misinterpret my questions. I know smuggling occurs, but to say the limited bloodlines in the US are all smuggled? Unless you're also counting the New Guinea frilled dragons. They are the same species, they have a very small but noticeable morphological difference than the Australians,but they are from a different county (PNG). There are some "pure" Australian bloodlines here, but most are mixed from what I've seen.

 

[Bill S]

In a lot of the world, the coma is used in place of the period for currency. So 50,00 dollars is 50.00 dollars. Not 50,000.00 dollars.

I'm glad you pointed this out. I'm used to seeing this in European notations, and recognized it in the Brazilian reference, but didn't catch that some of the readers here misunderstood it. Should have been obvious that nobody will have a suitcase full of $50k tarantulas.

 

[xhexdx]

I wasn't aware that comas surved that purpose. A comma, on the other hand...

Ok, ok. Seriously though, I seem to remember reading/learning that somewhere, and I was pretty sure they didn't mean $50k in that post. Heh.

 

[rasputin]

Ok, clearly no one read Mark Pennel's post on the T Store forum: http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=14895&view=findpost&p=97094

He was then arrested and the tarantulas confiscated. He is still in Brazil and seemed in a good and pleasant mood. He was fine £1500 pound.

So when I say that's a lot of money to be fined for not actually breaking any real law but rather being a victim of circumstance - yes, that's a big number. It is exactly $2,505.30 - that may not seem like a big number but for doing nothing it is.

 

[burmish101]

P.metallica too. I'd bet the originals came from smuggling. If anyone in the USA has an Australian frilled lizard, it's a decendant of a smuggled one. All of those are.

I thought frilleds get imported all the time, they occur in new guinea as well? People market them as wc on kingsnake.com lists sometimes.

 

[vvx]

I wasn't aware that comas surved that purpose. A comma, on the other hand...

Fine! A comma. I edited my post.

 

[Bill S]

I wasn't aware that comas surved that purpose. A comma, on the other hand...

I don't know... If I got charged $50k for a tarantula, that could induce a coma. :}

 

[UrbanJungles]

I thought frilleds get imported all the time, they occur in new guinea as well? People market them as wc on kingsnake.com lists sometimes.

Forget the Frills, where do you think the first Bearded Dragons came from?
They weren't legally exported to this country...
Nothing of Australian origin arrived here (or in Europe) legally-there hasn't been legal fauna trade for many decades. Shingleback skinks, some monitors, even many geckos all originating from OZ all have illegal roots. Indo was used as a crossing point for smuggling alot of stuff over especially in the early 90's.

On Average, the pet industry is responsible for probably only about 25% of the known Tarantula species currently available to us - usually bread and butter stuff. The vast majority of the most popular tarantulas, Poecilotheria (various Sp. including metallica), Nhandu, Lasiadora, some Avicularia, Iridopelma, etc...all got a foothold in the hobby from those crafty smugglers.

 

[pinktoe23]

Ok, clearly no one read Mark Pennel's post on the T Store forum: http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=14895&view=findpost&p=97094

So when I say that's a lot of money to be fined for not actually breaking any real law but rather being a victim of circumstance - yes, that's a big number. It is exactly $2,505.30 - that may not seem like a big number but for doing nothing it is.

I have read Mark Pennel's accounts on what Lee told him, i just don't think he might have given the whole story to Mark as he probably fears he could be banned from the BTS and blacklisted in the hobby. You can't believe the media sometimes, but when Dr. Rogerio Bertani is who's stepping in and confirming the BBC news, I can't believe this guy would do something so reckless to stuff 900 tarantulas in 2 suitcases violating all air shipping regulations on live animals. I can understand why he was arrested even if he had the legal paperwork, shipping live animals in suitcases is very much illegal in every country. Quite sad really.

Steve Nunn has written on behalf of Dr. Rogerio Bertani from the Butatan Institute, you can click here to read his full post:

http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=14895

"The media can be deceiving, however the response that Mark related directly from Lee, is not accurate either (read for yourselves the accurate number taken from the wild, counting those in eggsacs and it is clearer why Lee might have taken such a risk, thousands of entities is accurate). This is no attack on Mark or the BTS and is not to be treated as such, but taken for truth on the matter about an illegal activity carried out in Brazil....I was asked to relay this from Dr. Rogerio Bertani at Instituto Butantan, Sao Paulo, Brazil, on his behalf...

"I can tell you the following information from both wildlife authority IBAMA and Museu Nacional researchers, that Lee Arden was caught with TWO BIG suitcases completelly filled with small boxes consisting of multiple cartons and adesive tape. Many spiders had enlarged the holes made in the cartons (of course) and were loose in the suitcases. MANY were dead and many were also with eggsacs. The researchers that received the spiders gave me a call and were both furious and saddened to see so many specimens (900), and eggsacs in so such bad condition.

If this man is not a smuggler, what is him then? I read the posts in this link and someone has already said: What about the IATA regulations? And I agree, yes, IF he had permits to import so many spiders, they should have been shipped via air cargo, not carried inside personal luggage that is not suitable or humane for live animals! Sometimes, I import live spider via air cargo when coming in with permits and many from my fieldwork, but I strictly adhere to the IATA regulations!

Why were Arden's tarantulas inside two suitcases and inside badly made carton boxes tied with adesive tape, if he had permits? There are specific air transport regulations for transporting live animals. I have seen the official photos of these seized tarantulas and have spoken with the people who have the seized tarantulas and have helped with their identification. If you have any further questions, you may contact me directly at; rbert@butantan.gov.br

On behalf of Rogerio,
Steve

"

 

[UrbanJungles]

I have read Mark Pennel's accounts on what Lee told him, i just don't think he might have given the whole story to Mark as he probably fears he could be banned from the BTS and blacklisted in the hobby. You can't believe the media sometimes, but when Dr. Rogerio Bertani is who's stepping in and confirming the BBC news, I can't believe this guy would do something so reckless to stuff 900 tarantulas in 2 suitcases violating all air shipping regulations on live animals. I can understand why he was arrested even if he had the legal paperwork, shipping live animals in suitcases is very much illegal in every country. Quite sad really.

You're 100% right, I was thinking about this last night and I couldn't understand why the cardboard boxes & suitcase instead of deli cups and styros...there might be even more to this....

 

[joshuai]

Wow that guy should be locked up for a while. and banned from flying, or searched every time. he clearly had no care for the Ts just the cash they will make him. im glad it backfired on him.

 

[WelshTan]

I wonder why Dr. Rogerio Bertani did not submit his post himself and why Steve Nunn had edited his post at 07:58.....

 

[ZergFront]

In a lot of the world, the comma is used in place of the period. So 50,00 dollars is 50.00 dollars. Not 50,000.00 dollars.

Oh, LOL OK. I thought those were errors. Thanks.

Learned something new today.

 

[pinktoe23]

I wonder why Dr. Rogerio Bertani did not submit his post himself and why Steve Nunn had edited his post at 07:58.....

Um, I'm puzzled why you think that has any meaning whatsoever. He posted at 07:56 am and edited his post at 07:58 am, just 2 minutes later and probably to fix typos. Precisely what is wrong with Steve Nunn posting what Dr. Bertani stance in this matter is? They might have spoken in pms or emails and Bertani could've just asked Steve a favor to pass on his message in the forums and let Mark Pennell know the truth, just as everyone is entitled to know.

Lee already lied to Mark about the numbers, presumably knowing Mark's strict stance on importing WC and in such high quantities. I'm very interested in hearing what he has to say but wouldn't surprise me if we might never hear the whole truth from the horse's mouth as he has everything to lose. He has a reputation and a pet shop business that can't go bankrupt.

Dr. Rogerio Bertani is not the Brasil media or The Sun exaggerating the news, he's seriously as credible and reliable as it gets and so is Steve Nunn. They have absolutely no reason to lie.

Lastly, I know he's your friend and you must defend him but you should be frowning at him for putting himself and the hobby up like this for the bad press. He wouldn't be in this mess if he hadn't tried transporting 900 live animals and fragile eggsacs very poorly packed and illegaly in 2 suitcases. There's little difference between a negligent or newbie seller that ships you a tarantula so poorly packed it barely survives or arrives doa, and what your friend tried to do with over 900 specimens.

 

[Xian]

I wasn't aware that comas surved that purpose. A comma, on the other hand...

Did you mean 'served'?

 

[joshuai]

Did you mean 'served'?

LOLLOLLOLLOL

 

[Bill S]

Dr. Rogerio Bertani is not the Brasil media or The Sun exaggerating the news, he's seriously as credible and reliable as it gets and so is Steve Nunn. They have absolutely no reason to lie.

I don't know either Dr. Rogerio Bertani or Steve Nunn, so have no feelings one way or the other about how honest they are. But neither appears to have direct information about the case - both heard about it from other people. And only one has posted, although in the other's name. I can see why some people may not completely accept the statements as accurate. It would be nice to get information from a documented first person account. I have no doubt that a LOT of spiders were involved - but nobody has posted a true count of the numbers, just rounded off figures. And there seems to be a discrepency in those numbers. I'm not saying that Mr. Nunn is being dishonest or misleading - but he got the story from someone who got the story from someone who....etc. The only "first person" account we have is Arden's (which isn't really a first person account by the time it got relayed to this board), and he may be biased in what he presents.

In any case, while there may be questions over the legal aspects of the situation, and discrepencies over the actual numbers, it's a safe bet that some large-scale commercial collecting went on. I'm less concerned about the minor legal details than with the large-scale commercial collecting. Collecting a few specimens, legally or illegally, in order to start captive breeding projects does no real damage to the environment and in the end can take some of the pressure off the wild population if breeding is successful. But large scale commercial collecting, legal or otherwise, is very destructive.