‘Rare’/Uncommon Tarantula Woes/Rant

[antinous]

To preface this, I’ve been in the hobby for around 10+ years, but I’ve never actually bred any animals due to a variety of issues.

The species I tend to keep are uncommon within the U.S. hobby (such as 𝘗𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘩𝘰𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘦𝘶𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘴𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘪𝘴, 𝘟𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 sp. ‘Bright’, 𝘗𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘩𝘰𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘦𝘶𝘴 𝘰𝘳𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘶𝘴, etc.). Although I love keeping them and watching them grow, I’m usually quite disappointed when I sex them to be male. Main reason is because in the U.S., not many people have been able to figure out how to properly breed them and it’s trail and error due to not knowing. And then comes the issue with having to trust the other keeper you send them off to. I’ve heard too many horror stories about people who take a male and just drop off the face of the earth or not hold up their side of the deal (and to prevent this I’ll likely write up a breeding contract). I do have friends working with some of the species, but the timings are off and even then it isn’t always a guarantee that they’ll produce (when compared to a species with a much much higher chance such as 𝘔𝘰𝘯𝘰𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘰𝘱𝘶𝘴 𝘣𝘢𝘭𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘪, etc.). At least with having a female I’d be able to hold on to them for longer until more information regarding breeding is available or try my hand at breeding once I have more experience under my belt.

I know that this is me just ranting about what other veteran keepers already know, but it’s just a drag and wanted to vent a bit.

 

[pongdict]

I don't breed but I have a friend here who does. He only sells males he doesn't need and will not do breeding loans for reasons you mentioned above.

 

[antinous]

I don't breed but I have a friend here who does. He only sells males he doesn't need and will not do breeding loans for reasons you mentioned above.

Thought about selling, but I’d love to end up with slings of the species I have on the off chance that they produce. Hope that my optimism doesn’t end up biting me in the rear…

 

[Liquifin]

Well, getting a hold of some Pamphobeteus and Xenesthis species is difficult as most are EU imported into the US. I remember A story from one vendor I asked who went to the EU as a break vacation. He just said they kept it like most other females with egg sacs when he went to the EU for a visit. I don't know what "like most other females" mean, but I guess it implies that maybe we are probably over doing it I guess. But who knows?

Xenesthis is a genus I would like to try and breed, but sadly my X. immanis male isn't eating because of a sucking stomache issue, so he's most likely not going to make it since he's thin. It sucks because he's at suspect Pen-ultimate as well. But I have my hopes up as long as I'm trying and looking around.

Pamphobeteus are a mess. A lot of Pamphobeteus are mislabeled, "suspected", Cf., or just a random locale. I love some of the Pamho's, but it truly is a mess of a genus. There are still some people who argue that the P. antinous isn't the true P. antinous in the hobby and same for the many others that are brought in. EU collectors be grabbing every cool looking spider in Brazil and throwing labels on them. I know I sound like I'm ranting, but I question the Pamphobeteus and Phormictopus genus a lot with these labels nowadays.

Thought about selling, but I’d love to end up with slings of the species I have on the off chance that they produce. Hope that my optimism doesn’t end up biting me in the rear…

Everyone's first egg sac produced, whether it be a generic T. albo or a rare species, will always be a welcoming and burning passion. The "biting in the rear" comes in from people becoming delusional later on thinking they're the next big tarantula dealer, seller, breeder, etc. I've seen some people invest thousands of their savings into their "tarantula business" and then they just end up hating their lives from it 2-7 years later on down the road. Selling tarantulas is something anyone can start, but it's not a job everyone can do, especially long term.

Now, I always recommend everyone to give it a shot if they're willing to take a few years of their lives away pursuing it. I don't know your background, connections, or skills in the tarantula market. But if you decide to join in on the business side now, you've entered into the market at its hardest and most competitive time. I truly wish you the best, but I tell new vendors that making it long term is highly unlikely since the market is absolutely at a peak competition. You either need the connections or spends a ton of money to even have a fighting chance to succeed "long-term". I believe everyone has potential, but it doesn't everyone will or can be successful in this market.

The same quote I've given to those coming into the market:
"The people who are going to succeed in this are the ones who are more dedicated, more passionate, and more hard-working than anyone else in the entire hobby and are willing to risk years of their lives doing so."

 

[antinous]

Well, getting a hold of some Pamphobeteus and Xenesthis species is difficult as most are EU imported into the US. I remember A story from one vendor I asked who went to the EU as a break vacation. He just said they kept it like most other females with egg sacs when he went to the EU for a visit. I don't know what "like most other females" mean, but I guess it implies that maybe we are probably over doing it I guess. But who knows?

Xenesthis is a genus I would like to try and breed, but sadly my X. immanis male isn't eating because of a sucking stomache issue, so he's most likely not going to make it since he's thin. It sucks because he's at suspect Pen-ultimate as well. But I have my hopes up as long as I'm trying and looking around.

Pamphobeteus are a mess. A lot of Pamphobeteus are mislabeled, "suspected", Cf., or just a random locale. I love some of the Pamho's, but it truly is a mess of a genus. There are still some people who argue that the P. antinous isn't the true P. antinous in the hobby and same for the many others that are brought in. EU collectors be grabbing every cool looking spider in Brazil and throwing labels on them. I know I sound like I'm ranting, but I question the Pamphobeteus and Phormictopus genus a lot with these labels nowadays.

Yea, I'm fully aware that Pamphobeteus is a mess, which is why I tend to buy them from friends who import them themselves so they come directly from those in Europe who have had them properly labeled. Even within Xenesthis immanis, there's a few locales they've been collected from, which can also pose an issue when it comes to breeding.

As far as the antinous part, they're right. The antinous we have that are most common in the hobby hail from Peru and have a different amount of larval stages (similar to how sp. Arana Pollito has a different amount of stages) when compared to the type species found in Bolivia. Hence why they should be labeled as 'cf.' as if there is ever a revision done focusing on the Peruvian species, they would be given a separate species name. If you want the true antinous, you'll need to fork over almost four figures. Not trying to sound cocky, but I'm pretty well versed in the locales and species of Pamphobeteus and Xenesthis.

Everyone's first egg sac produced, whether it be a generic T. albo or a rare species, will always be a welcoming and burning passion. The "biting in the rear" comes in from people becoming delusional later on thinking they're the next big tarantula dealer, seller, breeder, etc. I've seen some people invest thousands of their savings into their "tarantula business" and then they just end up hating their lives from it 2-7 years later on down the road. Selling tarantulas is something anyone can start, but it's not a job everyone can do, especially long term.

Now, I always recommend everyone to give it a shot if they're willing to take a few years of their lives away pursuing it. I don't know your background, connections, or skills in the tarantula market. But if you decide to join in on the business side now, you've entered into the market at its hardest and most competitive time. I truly wish you the best, but I tell new vendors that making it long term is highly unlikely since the market is absolutely at a peak competition. You either need the connections or spends a ton of money to even have a fighting chance to succeed "long-term". I believe everyone has potential, but it doesn't everyone will or can be successful in this market.

The same quote I've given to those coming into the market:
"The people who are going to succeed in this are the ones who are more dedicated, more passionate, and more hard-working than anyone else in the entire hobby and are willing to risk years of their lives doing so."

I'd like to think I'm pretty well connected within the hobby. Don't know all of the newcomers/new sellers, but I've maintained a solid group of sellers/importers/breeders as friends for the past number of years. I have no intention of becoming a seller, I'm doing this as a hobby and if I was to produce slings, they would be 'wholesaled' off to a friend as I don't want to deal with randoms. I'm adamant on keeping this as a hobby as I travel quite a bit to see these animals in situ.

 

[pongdict]

Sucks that the timing for your mature male is off. Most secure breeding loan would be to friends. Maybe one of your friends knows someone who knows someone. It is better to do a breeding loan with someone with some sort of personal connection. Not saying its not gonna bite you in the butt, but it is less likely. Hope you will be able to find someone. Best of luck.

 

[antinous]

Sucks that the timing for your mature male is off. Most secure breeding loan would be to friends. Maybe one of your friends knows someone who knows someone. It is better to do a breeding loan with someone with some sort of personal connection. Not saying its not gonna bite you in the butt, but it is less likely. Hope you will be able to find someone. Best of luck.

It's just the name of the game I guess. And thanks! I'll looking into some environmental data in the areas they're found in if I end up with some females. Fingers crossed one of the insignis turns out of the be female, would hate if they all turned out to be male aha.

 

[Edan bandoot]

Yea, I'm fully aware that Pamphobeteus is a mess, which is why I tend to buy them from friends who import them themselves so they come directly from those in Europe who have had them properly labeled. Even within Xenesthis immanis, there's a few locales they've been collected from, which can also pose an issue when it comes to breeding.

As far as the antinous part, they're right. The antinous we have that are most common in the hobby hail from Peru and have a different amount of larval stages (similar to how sp. Arana Pollito has a different amount of stages) when compared to the type species found in Bolivia. Hence why they should be labeled as 'cf.' as if there is ever a revision done focusing on the Peruvian species, they would be given a separate species name. If you want the true antinous, you'll need to fork over almost four figures. Not trying to sound cocky, but I'm pretty well versed in the locales and species of Pamphobeteus and Xenesthis.




I'd like to think I'm pretty well connected within the hobby. Don't know all of the newcomers/new sellers, but I've maintained a solid group of sellers/importers/breeders as friends for the past number of years. I have no intention of becoming a seller, I'm doing this as a hobby and if I was to produce slings, they would be 'wholesaled' off to a friend as I don't want to deal with randoms. I'm adamant on keeping this as a hobby as I travel quite a bit to see these animals in situ.

Europe is no better at properly labeling them than the rest of us, the only way you can safely breed pamphos is by purposely inbreeding from the same sac. Which is hard due to the rate they mature at, and debatably bad for the hobby gene pool, depending on who you ask

 

[antinous]

Europe is no better at properly labeling them than the rest of us, the only way you can safely breed pamphos is by purposely inbreeding from the same sac. Which is hard due to the rate they mature at, and debatably bad for the hobby gene pool, depending on who you ask

Depending on who the source is, they're quite great with labeling with Pamphobeteus/Xenesthis (as they're the ones bringing them into the hobby in the first place). That isn't the only way either, obtaining individuals of the same collection location from the same source is another way of 'safely' breeding Pamphobeteus.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

Sell the male off and start off breeding something more predictable and easy. If you can’t handle the woes of sexing out a male imagine the woes when a female eats a MM, waits a year to lay, and then consumes the entire sac the next day.. then chooses to wait a year to molt. The loaner just sits back and waits for the breeder to do all the work and split the sac. This is why I personally don’t do loans outside a very slim close network of people. It’s a lot of work to be successful.

 

[antinous]

Sell the male off and start off breeding something more predictable and easy. If you can’t handle the woes of sexing out a male imagine the woes when a female eats a MM, waits a year to lay, and then consumes the entire sac the next day.. then chooses to wait a year to molt. The loaner just sits back and waits for the breeder to do all the work and split the sac. This is why I personally don’t do loans outside a very slim close network of people. It’s a lot of work to be successful.

Yea, I'd only do loans with a small number of people. But only a few of those work with Pamphobeteus/Xenesthis and/or have bred them successfully. Either way it is frustrating.