Guys seriously these are deffo Hysterocrates Hercules!! I grew these on from small spiderlings I found in a large imported plant 6 years ago. I have studied them and I am 100 % on this and I plan to breed them, just need a male. Please see the comments for a link to some very exiting reasearch..
Hi, thanks for asking that question. I did see that Andrew Smith said something like "if its not the beast.. prehaps it could be related to the beast?". I have tried to message Scolopeon many times on here, f.b and y.t but no replies unfortunately. I have forwarded all the research onto R. Gallon, thats on the online drive. I'm trying to convince it is or should be labelled at the very least - "Hysterocrates C.f Hercules". So even it doesn't match the holotype, the matching features are too distinct for it not to be H.Hercules. Pocock described a specimen pre-preservation and the distinct 4th leg patella and tibia features are described in his works. They are a unique feature true only to H. Hercules. This could have been overlooked, missed or mis-interpreted from his works when compared to the holotype as the wording is fairly difficult to follow and may not have easily been seen or compared to on the swollen leg 4 of the holotype specimen. However I have explained this tibia and patella feature in the file 'basal half' thats easier to see on what I believe is the real H. Hercules. The file 'specimen discrepancies' explains why I think Leg four has swollen to make comparisons difficult as seen in the photos and recent measurements of the holotype.
No, I believe 99% Scolopeon's spider is 'TRUE HERCULES' and it IS very likely the same species as mine. There are some unique features present seen in the new file called "whiteys herc" on the shared drive to look at and it explains why it's unlikely to be H. Laticeps even though they gain a huge carapace with age but appear slightly more "leggy" than H.hercules and are lighter in color.. Pocock emphasises H. Hercules is the "darkest Hysterocrates Known to him".. You have to admit his spider is awsome.. just a massive body and short legs.. I hope this has answered your question my friend, Cheers V.
The above Korean guy is raising many Hysterocrates species. In his blog, if you type the word "Hercules" in the search bar located on the left side of the screen, You can find two Hercules. Hysterocrates cf "Hercules" and Hysterocrates cf hercules "Togo". He firstly bought the first one and then bought the "Togo". I think the "Togo" definitely not fit to the Hercules's characteristics.
As you can see, he owns 4 different Hyerocrates. H.laticeps, H.hercules, H.hercules "Togo" and H.gigas
I think the one which fit to your description is not the H.hercules but rather H.laticeps (especially the size of the carapace).
H.laticeps were sold in Korea as 'Nigerian RustRed' following the other oversee website's name.
Hi, thanks for asking that question. I did see that Andrew Smith said something like "if its not the beast.. prehaps it could be related to the beast?". I have tried to message Scolopeon many times on here, f.b and y.t but no replies unfortunately. I have forwarded all the research onto R. Gallon, thats on the online drive. I'm trying to convince it is or should be labelled at the very least - "Hysterocrates C.f Hercules". So even it doesn't match the holotype, the matching features are too distinct for it not to be H.Hercules. Pocock described a specimen pre-preservation and the distinct 4th leg patella and tibia features are described in his works. They are a unique feature true only to H. Hercules. This could have been overlooked, missed or mis-interpreted from his works when compared to the holotype as the wording is fairly difficult to follow and may not have easily been seen or compared to on the swollen leg 4 of the holotype specimen. However I have explained this tibia and patella feature in the file 'basal half' thats easier to see on what I believe is the real H. Hercules. The file 'specimen discrepancies' explains why I think Leg four has swollen to make comparisons difficult as seen in the photos and recent measurements of the holotype.
No, I believe 99% Scolopeon's spider is 'TRUE HERCULES' and it IS very likely the same species as mine. There are some unique features present seen in the new file called "whiteys herc" on the shared drive to look at and it explains why it's unlikely to be H. Laticeps even though they gain a huge carapace with age but appear slightly more "leggy" than H.hercules and are lighter in color.. Pocock emphasises H. Hercules is the "darkest Hysterocrates Known to him".. You have to admit his spider is awsome.. just a massive body and short legs.. I hope this has answered your question my friend, Cheers V.
The above Korean guy is raising many Hysterocrates species. In his blog, if you type the word "Hercules" in the search bar located on the left side of the screen, You can find two Hercules. Hysterocrates cf "Hercules" and Hysterocrates cf hercules "Togo". He firstly bought the first one and then bought the "Togo". I think the "Togo" definitely not fit to the Hercules's characteristics.
As you can see, he owns 4 different Hyerocrates. H.laticeps, H.hercules, H.hercules "Togo" and H.gigas
I think the one which fit to your description is not the H.hercules but rather H.laticeps (especially the size of the carapace).
H.laticeps were sold in Korea as 'Nigerian RustRed' following the other oversee website's name.
Wow!!, this is some fantastic research and information!!.. A hidden gem amongst the rough!! Thank you so much!!. I would have never found this website! I will do some analysis of all his spiders and see what comes up.. please, you NEED to send him the online drive, especially all the sketches I drew from pococks original description on the drive and use these for comparison - don't the 'SWOLLEN' hercules pictured in "Andrew Smiths baboon spiders" book - common name "goliath baboon" on page 37, as the sketch and measurements are in-accurate.. see "specimen descrepancies" in online drive that explains and more or less proves there is and only ever was, one Hercules specimen. POCOCK'S measurements SHOULD and ONLY be used as these were pre-preservation. After 120 years in alchol, it looks to have swollen legs 3 and 4, obscuring the tibia features of leg 4 and lengthening these legs also and no spider would ever match these measurements.
I think you, him, gallon whitey, me and others could get to the bottom of this mystery once and for all, so long as we are all clear and open with each other and our objective is the same. Although from all my research I know at least my specimens match the many "unique" features of H. Hercules. However I feel confident to spot these features in other spiders.
Bear with me, I will give you some in depth feedback on his spiders.!
I can't stress enough the research on the online drive.. I posted in the comments a few pages back.
Please can you message him also please thanks very much.. V.
Also, in that blog, he used this website: https://hysterocrates.weebly.com/ for genuineness of his
(RustRed baboon (Hercules?) --> sent to Danni sherwood ---> identified as H.laticeps).
In the website description, website owner Danni sherwood is solely? or mainly breeding multiple pure species of Hysterocrates
in order to properly label them. It would be great progress for this genera if you communicate with him.
I really want to encourage you to send the photos of yours and then tell us what happened afterwards.
Hope everything goes well. V.
Wow!!, this is some fantastic research and information!!.. A hidden gem amongst the rough!! Thank you so much!!. I would have never found this website! I will do some analysis of all his spiders and see what comes up.. please, you NEED to send him the online drive, especially all the sketches I drew from pococks original description on the drive and use these for comparison - don't the 'SWOLLEN' hercules pictured in "Andrew Smiths baboon spiders" book - common name "goliath baboon" on page 37, as the sketch and measurements are in-accurate.. see "specimen descrepancies" in online drive that explains and more or less proves there is and only ever was, one Hercules specimen. POCOCK'S measurements SHOULD and ONLY be used as these were pre-preservation. After 120 years in alchol, it looks to have swollen legs 3 and 4, obscuring the tibia features of leg 4 and lengthening these legs also and no spider would ever match these measurements.
I think you, him, gallon whitey, me and others could get to the bottom of this mystery once and for all, so long as we are all clear and open with each other and our objective is the same. Although from all my research I know at least my specimens match the many "unique" features of H. Hercules. However I feel confident to spot these features in other spiders.
Bear with me, I will give you some in depth feedback on his spiders.!
I can't stress enough the research on the online drive.. I posted in the comments a few pages back.
Please can you message him also please thanks very much.. V.
Also, in that blog, he used this website: https://hysterocrates.weebly.com/ for genuineness of his
(RustRed baboon (Hercules?) --> sent to Danni sherwood ---> identified as H.laticeps).
In the website description, website owner Danni sherwood is solely? or mainly breeding multiple pure species of Hysterocrates
in order to properly label them. It would be great progress for this genera if you communicate with him.
I really want to encourage you to send the photos of yours and then tell us what happened afterwards.
Hope everything goes well. V.
Wow, I can't thank you enough for the links to all this material.
I have gone through his Hysterocrates but none are the same as mine I'm affraid. For both your efforts and passion for the species I am willing to sell you and your friend who owns the Korean site a real h. Hercules in the near future.. I'm 100% sure mine are hercules even with no direct comparison to the holotype..
I hope you find the analysis interesting..
Thanks again my friend
Please both of you subscribe to my "double oo venom" y.t channel..
Wow, I can't thank you enough for the links to all this material.
I have gone through his Hysterocrates but none are the same as mine I'm affraid. For both your efforts and passion for the species I am willing to sell you and your friend who owns the Korean site a real h. Hercules in the near future.. I'm 100% sure mine are hercules even with no direct comparison to the holotype..
I hope you find the analysis interesting..
Thanks again my friend
Please both of you subscribe to my "double oo venom" y.t channel..
Ok, I have prity much finalized everything on the shared drive. I have added some conclusions ( the "Please read last files") and they need to be read last after familiarizing with the files before. Thanks, let me know what you think..
From my understanding, there were no real imports of H. hercules ever brought into the hobby. The only import of "supposed" H. hercules that were imported that came in were actually H. gigas and were mislabeled/misidentified. Unless you have solid proof, I don't believe you have the real H. hercules.
Ah brilliant! Thanks for your input! I really enjoy unravelling mysteries and this has to be one of the most fascinating ones.. I did try to search for the f.b page but couldn't see "marcus porter" or anything on the gigas old/new differences. I do actually have a large female w/c gigas that is certainly a similar color to this one prehaps a tad lighter in color. But it definately has longer leg 3 and 4 and thickness to it. The carapace also a bit narrower at the front and longer. I did sketch the H. Hercules and in fact all Hysterocrates that Pockock describes to gain an insight into its body shape/ size. On my y.t channel the clip "this has to be hercules" shows the sketches. I guess that's a start with what it looks like, but it certainly has short back legs, darker coloring, carapace a little longer than the patella and tibia of first leg and big "tubular chelicerae" or spotted chelicerae (taken from latin tubercular / nodules or lumps on surface). I will definitely try to seek out Daniella sherwood to gain her insight. Maybe someone will chime in with more on the old/new gigas pictures as that sounds ab interesting lead.. what did the facebook group AB or TK mean sorry?.. thanks my friend hopefully we can solve this one!
Years ago, I mean decades, I remember H. gigas was like yours, they seemed to be bigger and more brown than the H. gigas we are used to see this days.
I think it was around 2015 that Marcus Porter (if I remember correctly, that was his name) made a thread on a Facebook group (AB or TK) with a pic of two individuals side by side stating that one, was the "old" H. gigas and the other, was the "new" one.
I remember that a long debate about them being different species started, with people supposing that the "old" one could be H. hercules.
A couple of people with a lil bit more scientifical knowledge said that Hysterocrates genus needed a revision and there were chances that not even researchers knew how the real H. hercules looked like so, H. hercules in the hobby was a myth.
With all that said, it's important to remember that such revision is still in need so, I don't believe you can state that yours is the "true" H. hercules since you found it in a plant and all you are supposing its locality. Maybe it is the real deal, maybe it isn't.
Yours looks like the "old" H. gigas Marcus posted on Facebook, though, now what this really could be, it's still a mistery, going even further, even the "new" ones might be with the wrong ID in pet trade.
If you want to know more about your specimens, I suggest you email Ray Gabriel or Danniella Sherwood, specially the second one. She knows a lot about african species and have been studied them for years now.
Yours definitely looks different from the hysterocrates sp benin or sp laticeps.
I was told or read H hercules leg V bend inwards somewhat like the king baboons.
Where exactly did you get this specimen?
Hi,
Oh I haven't heard of leg 4 bending inwards like the king baboon, but it does look to do that slightly now you mention it! Or do you mean the palp femur (leg V)
These spiders were found as spiderlings in a root base of a plant import 7 years ago. The plants came from 'west africa'. One other person had this exact same species 8 years ago and his came from near to where the holotype was found. I would say these are from the same area too.
Here, I posted some of my research in thos comments, you may have to register with this group,
Is it possible that H laticeps is actually the real hercules species mix ups who knows with hysterocrates H laticeps do fit the bill somewhat.
From what I see from pictures I think sp. Benin is Sp. Laticeps. I am hoping to examine a moult from an owner to confirm this. This and hercules are very alike, but with a few differences.
Here is a comparison of these two Species on my y.t channel.
Hello there, why not take a few seconds to register on our forums and become part of the community? Just click here.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
