Guys seriously these are deffo Hysterocrates Hercules!! I grew these on from small spiderlings I found in a large imported plant 6 years ago. I have studied them and I am 100 % on this and I plan to breed them, just need a male. Please see the comments for a link to some very exiting reasearch..
Years ago, I mean decades, I remember H. gigas was like yours, they seemed to be bigger and more brown than the H. gigas we are used to see this days.
I think it was around 2015 that Marcus Porter (if I remember correctly, that was his name) made a thread on a Facebook group (AB or TK) with a pic of two individuals side by side stating that one, was the "old" H. gigas and the other, was the "new" one.
I remember that a long debate about them being different species started, with people supposing that the "old" one could be H. hercules.
A couple of people with a lil bit more scientifical knowledge said that Hysterocrates genus needed a revision and there were chances that not even researchers knew how the real H. hercules looked like so, H. hercules in the hobby was a myth.
With all that said, it's important to remember that such revision is still in need so, I don't believe you can state that yours is the "true" H. hercules since you found it in a plant and all you are supposing its locality. Maybe it is the real deal, maybe it isn't.
Yours looks like the "old" H. gigas Marcus posted on Facebook, though, now what this really could be, it's still a mistery, going even further, even the "new" ones might be with the wrong ID in pet trade.
If you want to know more about your specimens, I suggest you email Ray Gabriel or Danniella Sherwood, specially the second one. She knows a lot about african species and have been studied them for years now.
Years ago, I mean decades, I remember H. gigas was like yours, they seemed to be bigger and more brown than the H. gigas we are used to see this days.
I think it was around 2015 that Marcus Porter (if I remember correctly, that was his name) made a thread on a Facebook group (AB or TK) with a pic of two individuals side by side stating that one, was the "old" H. gigas and the other, was the "new" one.
I remember that a long debate about them being different species started, with people supposing that the "old" one could be H. hercules.
A couple of people with a lil bit more scientifical knowledge said that Hysterocrates genus needed a revision and there were chances that not even researchers knew how the real H. hercules looked like so, H. hercules in the hobby was a myth.
With all that said, it's important to remember that such revision is still in need so, I don't believe you can state that yours is the "true" H. hercules since you found it in a plant and all you are supposing its locality. Maybe it is the real deal, maybe it isn't.
Yours looks like the "old" H. gigas Marcus posted on Facebook, though, now what this really could be, it's still a mistery, going even further, even the "new" ones might be with the wrong ID in pet trade.
If you want to know more about your specimens, I suggest you email Ray Gabriel or Danniella Sherwood, specially the second one. She knows a lot about african species and have been studied them for years now.
Ah brilliant! Thanks for your input! I really enjoy unravelling mysteries and this has to be one of the most fascinating ones.. I did try to search for the f.b page but couldn't see "marcus porter" or anything on the gigas old/new differences. I do actually have a large female w/c gigas that is certainly a similar color to this one prehaps a tad lighter in color. But it definately has longer leg 3 and 4 and thickness to it. The carapace also a bit narrower at the front and longer. I did sketch the H. Hercules and in fact all Hysterocrates that Pockock describes to gain an insight into its body shape/ size. On my y.t channel the clip "this has to be hercules" shows the sketches. I guess that's a start with what it looks like, but it certainly has short back legs, darker coloring, carapace a little longer than the patella and tibia of first leg and big "tubular chelicerae" or spotted chelicerae (taken from latin tubercular / nodules or lumps on surface). I will definitely try to seek out Daniella sherwood to gain her insight. Maybe someone will chime in with more on the old/new gigas pictures as that sounds ab interesting lead.. what did the facebook group AB or TK mean sorry?.. thanks my friend hopefully we can solve this one!
Ah brill, It's nice you are interested in them. Hopefully I can get some babies over to you in the coming years. There was about 20 big plants and smaller ones. From "west Africa" so that narrows it down slightly I guess. It's obviously difficult finding the plant specimen location. I'm just going with Nigeria as that's where the suspect spider is located.. not sure otherwise.. I know the males are huge for Hysterocrates so it could be Hercules's I guess..
That would be awesome! Hope this is a big big beginning!
Hopefully it wont take too long to get some over to the states.. but since there's a lot of red tape.. it'll be a long time..
Not trying to be rough, but I'm not convinced it's a H. hercules. I'm not an arachnologists, but I am a hobbyists and from my knowledge, the Hysterocrates genus is one that cannot be easily identified by features alone as it may be the same or varies within different species of Hysterocrates specimens. Maybe @AphonopelmaTX may know something more on the side of taxonomy, but as far as I'm aware, no one has imported any true H. hercules into the hobby. The only WC imports brought into the US regarding Hysterocrates was H. gigas/ H. laticeps which was about 7 years ago and last year with H. crassipes that I know of. I've never been aware of H. hercules being brought into the US, but it's a game changer if it was the real deal H. hercules.
EDIT: Forgot to mention about H. sp. "Benin" brought into the US about a year or two ago.
I still have small ones.. I think they can get to 10 inches plus!! That was in a book by russ gurley.. this shows a "h. Hercules" but it may or may not be it, although from all description I have studied it looks to be same as type specimen or closely related to it..
Hello, Paul
I have one question to ask.
The guy 'Scolopeon' who operates 'Whitey Exotics' in Youtube said, in his channel, the female Hysterocrates sp. "hercules" (Nigeria)
which he owns is actually H. laticeps
(Source:
(someone asked "H.gigas?" and he answered "H.laticeps" in his comment section)
[arachnoboards.com/threads/af-hysterocrates-gigas-and-hysterocrates-sp-hercules-nigeria-compared.250509/]
Comparing your tarantula with above thread.
They look really similar.
I know that you have gathered information for your tarantula for long long time and i think you have certainly saw that thread for your research. Could you explain the difference between yours with his? Do you agree Scolopeon's is H. laticeps ? if so, why?
Hello, Paul
I have one question to ask.
The guy 'Scolopeon' who operates 'Whitey Exotics' in Youtube said, in his channel, the female Hysterocrates sp. "hercules" (Nigeria)
which he owns is actually H. laticeps
(Source:
(someone asked "H.gigas?" and he answered "H.laticeps" in his comment section)
[arachnoboards.com/threads/af-hysterocrates-gigas-and-hysterocrates-sp-hercules-nigeria-compared.250509/]
Comparing your tarantula with above thread.
They look really similar.
I know that you have gathered information for your tarantula for long long time and i think you have certainly saw that thread for your research. Could you explain the difference between yours with his? Do you agree Scolopeon's is H. laticeps ? if so, why?
Hi, thanks for asking that question. I did see that Andrew Smith said something like "if its not the beast.. prehaps it could be related to the beast?". I have tried to message Scolopeon many times on here, f.b and y.t but no replies unfortunately. I have forwarded all the research onto R. Gallon, thats on the online drive. I'm trying to convince it is or should be labelled at the very least - "Hysterocrates C.f Hercules". So even it doesn't match the holotype, the matching features are too distinct for it not to be H.Hercules. Pocock described a specimen pre-preservation and the distinct 4th leg patella and tibia features are described in his works. They are a unique feature true only to H. Hercules. This could have been overlooked, missed or mis-interpreted from his works when compared to the holotype as the wording is fairly difficult to follow and may not have easily been seen or compared to on the swollen leg 4 of the holotype specimen. However I have explained this tibia and patella feature in the file 'basal half' thats easier to see on what I believe is the real H. Hercules. The file 'specimen discrepancies' explains why I think Leg four has swollen to make comparisons difficult as seen in the photos and recent measurements of the holotype.
No, I believe 99% Scolopeon's spider is 'TRUE HERCULES' and it IS very likely the same species as mine. There are some unique features present seen in the new file called "whiteys herc" on the shared drive to look at and it explains why it's unlikely to be H. Laticeps even though they gain a huge carapace with age but appear slightly more "leggy" than H.hercules and are lighter in color.. Pocock emphasises H. Hercules is the "darkest Hysterocrates Known to him".. You have to admit his spider is awsome.. just a massive body and short legs.. I hope this has answered your question my friend, Cheers V.
Hello there, why not take a few seconds to register on our forums and become part of the community? Just click here.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
