Looking it up, suggests it may be A. metallica, but some of the threads and posts are confusing, stating the mettalica may be the gray ones and the Avic, avic can sometimes be blue. I’m not really into pink toes so help would be appreciated! Thanks!
Ive owned many localities of Avics, including this. This is a A avic Morphotype 6, aka metallica. You can tell the difference between these normal A avics, by the presence of white setae, dorsolateral on the abdomen. A avic would have reddish tint to them.
One more thing, DO NOT breed this unless it's with a M6!!! No one wants FrankenTs
The other major feature of M6 unlike many other Avics, is the white tipped setae, A avic doesn't present this way at all. A few others have fiber optic setae too, but they all look different than M6. Only A avic look similar in the hobby that is commonly found.
Ive owned many localities of Avics, including this. This is a A avic Morphotype 6, aka metallica. You can tell the difference between these normal A avics, by the presence of white setae, dorsolateral on the abdomen. A avic would have reddish tint to them.
Wow! Very helpful and specific!
So I just read about morphotypes basically being the same species, but from different geographical locations and having different visual traits. So if they’re the same species, does that make the different morphotypes like dog breeds? (As in same species but different color and body traits? Since I’ve heard these grow bigger than the standard Avic. acic.) Also, if they are the same species and you breed 2 different morphotypes together, is that considered a hybrid? Or is a hybrid only from breed 2 different species? (which I wouldn’t do, I’m definitely not a fan of hybrids, I’m just curious as to the specific distinctions of a morphotype) At first actually, I was kind of afraid this T was a hybrid, and made to look that way because of human involvement, but from reading, it sounds like they evolved different morphotypes on their own? Sorry, I don’t mean to hound you with questions, but this is all very fascinating to me as I’ve never come across this before. Or perhaps I have? Is the difference between P. subfusca highland and lowland a species difference, or morphotype difference?
That's what I have in M6. When I first got it, it took quite a bit of research to figure out what that meant. At the time I didn't know Arachnoboards existed though. Afterwords I was going to get one from a local breeder but when I asked what morphotype it was his answer was "What's that".
That's what I have in M6. When I first got it, it took quite a bit of research to figure out what that meant. At the time I didn't know Arachnoboards existed though. Afterwords I was going to get one from a local breeder but when I asked what morphotype it was his answer was "What's that".
Wow! Very helpful and specific!
So I just read about morphotypes basically being the same species, but from different geographical locations and having different visual traits. So if they’re the same species, does that make the different morphotypes like dog breeds? (As in same species but different color and body traits? Since I’ve heard these grow bigger than the standard Avic. acic.) Also, if they are the same species and you breed 2 different morphotypes together, is that considered a hybrid? Or is a hybrid only from breed 2 different species? (which I wouldn’t do, I’m definitely not a fan of hybrids, I’m just curious as to the specific distinctions of a morphotype) At first actually, I was kind of afraid this T was a hybrid, and made to look that way because of human involvement, but from reading, it sounds like they evolved different morphotypes on their own? Sorry, I don’t mean to hound you with questions, but this is all very fascinating to me as I’ve never come across this before. Or perhaps I have? Is the difference between P. subfusca highland and lowland a species difference, or morphotype difference?
It has to be specific, esp with these animals as many Ts can be confused by many people.
You are making some wrong assumptions.
As you may know science is always learning new things. Many species currently have been switched over time (smithi - hamorii). With that said, your "basically same species" is not exactly accurate.
While Fukishima did an excellent Avic revision, much needed, there was no DNA work done to compare the species. There are some arachnologists which believe cladistics is the most important part, and some think the only part of T taxonomy. However DNA analysis in conjunction with cladistics has been used by a wide variety of scientists. The best example I can think of is the Apho revision by Hamilton and Bond- google it's free. They are not the only scientists who believe in using DNA analysis as a tool towards identification of Ts.
So what I'm telling are the following:
1. Avics have not been given the same treatment as the Apho genus. This means M6 could very well be a different species, or the same species, or even a sub-species of A. avic. There's another T A. sp. Kwitara Rivera, it's highly similar to M6, yet it's greenish. Could be the same species, could be different etc.
2. Not a sane soul on the planet is interested in getting muts for a T. If one breeds them M6 with another A. avic morphotype, one will have taken a significant step in screwing up the hobby for everyone on the planet.
3. IF M6 is found to be the same species as M1 after DNA analysis by SCIENTISTS, then the hobby arrives at a cross-roads as these would be the same species, and not technically hybrids in a genetic sense if bred Some will breed them, and some will keep the bloodlines clean. The worst is people who will cross them and NOT be honest about their muts. The poison dart frog hobby doesn't really have this issue of "can I make a hybrid", but over in T world tons of people ask this all the time. I have my own reasons why I think this is the case, but I keep them to myself.
I would keep the blood-lines clean myself. Unfortunately humans play god all too frequently.
3. 2 different species, that's what is commonly referred to as a hybrid in science.
I did google. The problem is finding a place where I trust the info. I'm very scientifically minded and like info with citations as this limits what people can "make up". Plus, following research citations down the rabbit hole can be a lot of fun. Try it sometime.
I did google. The problem is finding a place where I trust the info. I'm very scientifically minded and like info with citations as this limits what people can "make up". Plus, following research citations down the rabbit hole can be a lot of fun. Try it sometime.
You have lost me. If you google you will find Fukishima's peer-reviewed paper with PLENTY of citations. I provided you the means to find exactly what you are looking for
Perhaps you didn't find it yet.
It has to be specific, esp with these animals as many Ts can be confused by many people.
You are making some wrong assumptions.
As you may know science is always learning new things. Many species currently have been switched over time (smithi - hamorii). With that said, your "basically same species" is not exactly accurate.
While Fukishima did an excellent Avic revision, much needed, there was no DNA work done to compare the species. There are some arachnologists which believe cladistics is the most important part, and some think the only part of T taxonomy. However DNA analysis in conjunction with cladistics has been used by a wide variety of scientists. The best example I can think of is the Apho revision by Hamilton and Bond- google it's free. They are not the only scientists who believe in using DNA analysis as a tool towards identification of Ts.
So what I'm telling are the following:
1. Avics have not been given the same treatment as the Apho genus. This means M6 could very well be a different species, or the same species, or even a sub-species of A. avic. There's another T A. sp. Kwitara Rivera, it's highly similar to M6, yet it's greenish. Could be the same species, could be different etc.
2. Not a sane soul on the planet is interested in getting muts for a T. If one breeds them M6 with another A. avic morphotype, one will have taken a significant step in screwing up the hobby for everyone on the planet.
3. IF M6 is found to be the same species as M1 after DNA analysis by SCIENTISTS, then the hobby arrives at a cross-roads as these would be the same species, and not technically hybrids in a genetic sense if bred Some will breed them, and some will keep the bloodlines clean. The worst is people who will cross them and NOT be honest about their muts. The poison dart frog hobby doesn't really have this issue of "can I make a hybrid", but over in T world tons of people ask this all the time. I have my own reasons why I think this is the case, but I keep them to myself.
I would keep the blood-lines clean myself. Unfortunately humans play god all too frequently.
3. 2 different species, that's what is commonly referred to as a hybrid in science.
I agree with you on hybrids being bad, for all the same reasons. I love that there are beautiful Ts out there that look the way they do because of nature. I just worded my question the way I did because I thought it might help explain it a little better by comparing it to a topic I’m a little more familiar with. And I agree and don’t like it when humans play God with animals. Also I’m no breeder, just a hobbiest that really enjoys these animals. Your response was better than anything I could have hoped for and extremely informative! Looks like I’ve got some reading to do, as this is more complex than I had initially thought, and is very interesting! I can’t thank you enough for your help and time on this. My google search results were making things more confusing, but you’ve told me what to search for specifically, and told me a great deal of information to help answer my initial question above and beyond! Thank you kindly!
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