What do you think?

[NightCrawler27]

And when are these studies dated?

What year do you want?
I got them from 1972-2003

If you want to start on this book, it was 1972-and later editions from B.J Kaston

Jerry G. Walls-2003

John Coote-1996

Or I can pull up some more recent from John Coote if you like.

 

[BakuBak]

WRONG
a bald patch is not indicitive of anything but a tarantula kicking off hairs. A bald BLACK or very dark patch is indicitive of a tarantula, that kicked off hairs, and is going to molt soon.

WRONG

It dont have to be kicking off hairs the reson of loosing hairs ..
it could be molting as well ..

when she become so plumby and skin is stretched hairs tend to fall of without kicking them out ..

 

[Crotalus]

"books from jerry g. walls who have dedicated their lives to herpetological studies"

Herpetology isnt arachnology.
And besides, if his tarantula book have the same standard as his book on rattlesnakes then I would not use that as a reference. His work is based on personal opinion, not on solid facts.
As shown with that quote you wrote there. Personal opinion, not a fact. Bald patch are NOT a sign of a umcoming molt.

/Lelle

 

[Sheri]

"books from jerry g. walls who have dedicated their lives to herpetological studies"

Herpetology isnt arachnology.
And besides, if his tarantula book have the same standard as his book on rattlesnakes then I would not use that as a reference. His work is based on personal opinion, not on solid facts.
As shown with that quote you wrote there. Personal opinion, not a fact. Bald patch are NOT a sign of a umcoming molt.

/Lelle

Thanks Lelle.... :worship:

I have give as much of an area for some mental acrobatics in this discussion as possible... I can't give anymore! :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

I will however, ask Rick West. Does anyone not feel he is a current and respected source with which to get this kind of information?

 

[BakuBak]

Their not a sign of a umcoming molt !! but THEY MAY BE EVOKE BY PREMOLT !!

ITS BOT HAPPEN EVERYTIME BUT SOMETIMES IT HAPPENDS

 

[Spider-man 2]

Their not a sign of a umcoming molt !! but THEY MAY BE EVOKE BY PREMOLT !!

ITS BOT HAPPEN EVERYTIME BUT SOMETIMES IT HAPPENDS

I will give my opinion about this, after I can decifer your English. ;P jk

 

[BakuBak]

it in not so bad ,, so ;P ;P ;P

I wanted to say that it can be reason of fall-out of hair approximating molt but versions must not have from electronic dictionary here - better? P

:wall:

 

[NightCrawler27]

Jon Coote "over the years, Jon has published books and a substantial number of scientific papers." So therefore Jon Coote's books are based on all scientific studies.

Jerry G. Walls book resources are from: Charpentier, Phillip..DeVosjoli, Phillippe..Foeliz, Rainer..Gurley, Russ..Kaston, B.J..Moore, Mary Edith..Smith, Andrew N..Tinter, Andreas..Verdez, J.M.,F. Cleton & P. Gerarad.

And the Societies are American & British Societies

That is where all his information for his book came from. And if you want names and address to contact him, I am willing to give them too.

Also, here is the pictures of the book, just incase.

 

[NightCrawler27]

Thanks Lelle.... :worship:

I have give as much of an area for some mental acrobatics in this discussion as possible... I can't give anymore! :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

I will however, ask Rick West. Does anyone not feel he is a current and respected source with which to get this kind of information?

nothing against rick west but i think the studies of 10 different people and 2 societies is plenty ....thats like a majority vote kinda 10 people and 2 societies agree on the same thing...you all do the math

 

[Crotalus]

Jon Coote "over the years, Jon has published books and a substantial number of scientific papers." So therefore Jon Coote's books are based on all scientific studies.

Jerry G. Walls book resources are from: Charpentier, Phillip..DeVosjoli, Phillippe..Foeliz, Rainer..Gurley, Russ..Kaston, B.J..Moore, Mary Edith..Smith, Andrew N..Tinter, Andreas..Verdez, J.M.,F. Cleton & P. Gerarad.

And the Societies are American & British Societies

That is where all his information for his book came from. And if you want names and address to contact him, I am willing to give them too.

Also, here is the pictures of the book, just incase.

I never mentioned Jon Coote cos i never read anything hes been written.

A few of those mentioned have written books that dont have the best of info.
Besides, he might have some valuable info in those tarantula books - but that quote wasnt one of them.

I read JGW´s snake books and thats enough for me thanks. I dont need to contact him.

Edit: while we talk about quotes, heres from A. Tinter "Tarantulas Today" :
"The actual molt is announced by the refusal to eat and the desire to hide. In bombardier spiders, which have brushed "bald spots" on their abdomen, an imminent molt is particularly easy to recognize. The bald spot turns black from the underlying skin color."

Or from Ronald N. Baxter "Keeping and breeding tarantulas":
"Moulting is a gradual process. The first noticable sign being when the spider stops feeding. If it has a bare patch on its abdomen, this will gradually darken and turn black."

Or Samuel D. Marshall "Tarantulas and other arachnids":
"In the weeks prior to the shed you may notice that the spider loses interest in food and becomes less active, as the spider is growing a new skin beneath the old one. Just before the actual molt you can see the skin darken slightly."

Or Stanley A. Schultz "The tarantula keepers guide":
"During premolt, requiring several days to several weeks, a new exoskeleton is grown just inside the old. Along with this new exoskeleton, an entirely new set of bristles is produced. Thus, if the tarantula were going bald because of the loss of any of its bristles, they would be replaced at the next molt. Those New World tarantulas that shed their bristles frequently develop a bald patch on the rear, dorsal surface of their ophistosoma. The color of this bald area is an important harbringer of an impending molt."

Note: he use the word "shed" instead of kick off the hairs.

I could go on, but now my fingers are sore.

/Lelle

 

[becca81]

Has anyone yet to reason why some New World Ts shed without a bald abdomen? If the species if left undisturbed and has no reason to kick hair (other than to add it to the molting mat, perhaps), it will probably not have a bald spot.

Does anyone have any evidence / articles / etc. about this?

 

[Crotalus]

Has anyone yet to reason why some New World Ts shed without a bald abdomen? If the species if left undisturbed and has no reason to kick hair (other than to add it to the molting mat, perhaps), it will probably not have a bald spot.

Does anyone have any evidence / articles / etc. about this?

When its time to shed, they shed. Bald or not bald. Baldness has nothing to do with the fact their new exoskeleton is growing under the old one.

/Lelle

 

[becca81]

When its time to shed, they shed. Bald or not bald. Baldness has nothing to do with the fact their new exoskeleton is growing under the old one.

/Lelle

I agree with you 100%. I feel that the hairs are there for a purpose. It's their mode of defense. If they slowly lose their defense mechanism (one of them) during pre-molt (which can last months), why don't they web themselves up to stay away from predators? Why do they only web up just prior to a molt (depending on the species).

Also, why would the build up of exuvial fluid only cause a "patch" of hair to be missing? Why wouldn't the entire abdomen be bald? If the hairs were really "falling out," then I would expect to see Ts with COMPLETELY bald abdomens, not just a patch where their legs can reach...

 

[Boo]

"books from jerry g. walls who have dedicated their lives to herpetological studies"

Herpetology isnt arachnology.
And besides, if his tarantula book have the same standard as his book on rattlesnakes then I would not use that as a reference. His work is based on personal opinion, not on solid facts.
As shown with that quote you wrote there. Personal opinion, not a fact. Bald patch are NOT a sign of a umcoming molt.

/Lelle

This has more to do with the book then the topic....sorry
I have Jerry G. Walls 2003 book- The Guide To Owning a Tarantula. In my opinion, If I were someone doing research on T's before I went to buy one, this book would have made me change my mind. I feel it depics the T as a scarey monster. I am still looking up the resources to find the facts on people dying from and being hospitalized from the T's mentioned in this book. Oh thats how I ended up at these forums in the first place.

 

[Drachenjager]

this has been a nice long debate..ive been fllowing it and before i decided to post on this one ..i decieded to educate myself more on this ..and after reading books from one of the worlds foremost herpetological experts jon coote and books from jerry g. walls who have dedicated their lives to herpetological studies all of their books have stated ..quote..the bald patch on the abdomen indicates a molt comming soon ...there for im goin to have to argue this on Brachymad's behalf...but they do not just fall out they are pushed out due to a fluid that starts to build up in between the new and old layer of the exo..when the entire body has built up enough fluids it then molts that is the period from pre-molt to molt so yes urticating hairs are pushed out if they are not already been kicked at another predetor .and is the ost common to deterine an upcomming molt..its in the books and there has been lifetimes of studies that have been done on this issue..so regardless of any post that are made after this ..who are you goin to trust ..(and i say this with no disrespect to any keeper or anyone on this board ).....expert herpetologists or hobbists....there is a fine line between the two..1 does it for a living and has spent and dedicated their life to the studies ..the other loves the species but has other life issues at hand...thx for everyones time

no offense but why would a herpetologist be a reputable source of information about an arachnid? last time i checked herpetologist studied reptiles not arachnids.