TKG Points of Discussion

[shawno821]

This seems like a lot of hearsay and conjecture. Germany has really relaxed laws and a good deal of smuggling. People are assuming they're not using smuggled WC adults. It's also a numbers game. More spiders to start = more spiders produced. Does anybody have any idea what percentage of slings in Europe end up living a full life cycle and reproducing? Wouldn't surprise me if it's similar to ours in the states.
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---------- Post added 01-11-2015 at 09:03 AM ----------

The only way to accurately guage humitity is with a dry and wet bulb thermometer and math. Unless we're sticking probes down burrows we have little idea what that microclimate is like. They don't exactly experience the weather the way a non ground dwelling animal would

No,it's not.I keep the humidity IN MY T ROOM to strict parameters,and use fully vented cages instead of tupperware with holes drilled in it.This is just the type of thinking holding this hobby back here in the states.I will do things my way and at least attempt to further this hobby.If I don't get my red legged brachys to breed,then I'll be just like everyone else who's trying to breed them.If I do,maybe the hobby moves a little forward.In the meantime there's some very pampered and happy T's in my T room,so what's the harm in trying,seeing as not too many other people in this country are getting them to breed? Ignorance is not bliss.

 

[BobGrill]

No need to get defensive. Humidity really isn't all that important for the majority of species.

 

[TroyMcClureOG82]

No,it's not.I keep the humidity IN MY T ROOM to strict parameters,and use fully vented cages instead of tupperware with holes drilled in it.This is just the type of thinking holding this hobby back here in the states.I will do things my way and at least attempt to further this hobby.If I don't get my red legged brachys to breed,then I'll be just like everyone else who's trying to breed them.If I do,maybe the hobby moves a little forward.In the meantime there's some very pampered and happy T's in my T room,so what's the harm in trying,seeing as not too many other people in this country are getting them to breed? Ignorance is not bliss.

I'll say it again unless you have a wet bulb and dry bulb thermometer in the enclosure you do not know what the humidity is. Do you truly believe the humidity inside those boxes is equal to the rest of the room??????

 

[shawno821]

I'll say it again unless you have a wet bulb and dry bulb thermometer in the enclosure you do not know what the humidity is. Do you truly believe the humidity inside those boxes is equal to the rest of the room??????

No,the humidity is about 5%ish higher than the rest of the room,10% higher in the cages for my T's that like 80% humidity,without keeping them swamped.BTW,I've had good success breeding birds,too.Just keep doing things the old way,your T's will be healthy and fine,even if they don't reproduce.Stay in your comfort zone.I'll be happy to sell you babies down the road.

---------- Post added 01-11-2015 at 02:54 PM ----------

No need to get defensive. Humidity really isn't all that important for the majority of species.

You're just parroting information passed on to you.You've done no research to determine whether or not it's important.You have no idea whether it's important or not.What are you doing to further the hobby? At least I'm trying some different techniques,which succeed or fail,will move the hobby forward just a tiny bit.I'm not just trying to keep them alive,that's easy,I'm trying to breed.And I don't take offense on random people's opinions on the interwebs.

 

[TroyMcClureOG82]

No,the humidity is about 5%ish higher than the rest of the room,10% higher in the cages for my T's that like 80% humidity,without keeping them swamped.BTW,I've had good success breeding birds,too.Just keep doing things the old way,your T's will be healthy and fine,even if they don't reproduce.Stay in your comfort zone.I'll be happy to sell you babies down the road.

---------- Post added 01-11-2015 at 02:54 PM ----------
Mi

You're just parroting information passed on to you.You've done no research to determine whether or not it's important.You have no idea whether it's important or not.What are you doing to further the hobby? At least I'm trying some different techniques,which succeed or fail,will move the hobby forward just a tiny bit.I'm not just trying to keep them alive,that's easy,I'm trying to breed.And I don't take offense on random people's opinions on the interwebs.

How do you know what the humidity is? Are you using a wet bulb thermometer?
Are you artifically incubating your bird eggs? If so, what percentage successfully hatched? I already stated how I kept my spiders when I kept dozens of species. It was hardly old school

---------- Post added 01-11-2015 at 12:29 PM ----------

Have you produced any spiders? I attempted breeding one time and provided many members here with slings

 

[Poec54]

Germany has really relaxed laws and a good deal of smuggling. People are assuming they're not using smuggled WC adults. It's also a numbers game. More spiders to start = more spiders produced.

And we all better be thankful that Germans do whatever it is they do, or else many of the species wouldn't be in the US, because we get them as CBB from Europe. If you're concerned about w/c imports impacting the populations in the wild, look no further than G rosea; it's criminal what the pet trade in the US has done to such a slow growing species. Also, are you under the impression spiders are somehow safe in the wild? Habitat destruction is by far the biggest threat to almost every species of tarantula. What should be happening is the flora and fauna in areas being leveled, is that they're relocated and/or brought into captivity. For them to be killed in huge numbers like that is a disgrace.

---------- Post added 01-11-2015 at 04:59 PM ----------

How is this hobby supposed to change and catch up to the Europeans when anytime anyone does something a little different they get jumped on in these forums for being a "newb" and scoffed at? I get it for strictly controlling the humidity in my T room.Most people on here scoff for even having a humidity gauge,even though I use a few digital ones,and not the old dial type.Poec,you are part of this group.Things will never change if people aren't allowed to branch out and try different things.

Because beginners aren't pioneering, they're usually blundering and killing animals. We're trying to help get them past that point. Very few of them are attempting to breed anything.

 

[TroyMcClureOG82]

I gave zero input as to whether using WC specimens was good bad moral immoral ect. You're letting your imagination run wild. I'm stating that there is a lot that allows Germans to produce more spiders that has zilch to do with husbandry. So yall can quit with the we don't know anything compared to the Germans. I see the same crap with working dogs.

 

[BobGrill]

No,the humidity is about 5%ish higher than the rest of the room,10% higher in the cages for my T's that like 80% humidity,without keeping them swamped.BTW,I've had good success breeding birds,too.Just keep doing things the old way,your T's will be healthy and fine,even if they don't reproduce.Stay in your comfort zone.I'll be happy to sell you babies down the road.

---------- Post added 01-11-2015 at 02:54 PM ----------

At least I'm trying some different techniques,which succeed or fail,will move the hobby forward just a tiny bit.I'm not just trying to keep them alive,that's easy,I'm trying to breed.And I don't take offense on random people's opinions on the interwebs.

And you know this how? You don't consider loaning out MMs or breeding tarantulas to be contributing to the hobby? You're sure making a lot of assumptions. And we're not just random people, we're ALL fellow hobbyists. We are here because we all have a similar interest and there's no reason for you to attempt to prove you've contributed more to the hobby than others, besides to fuel your own ego.

 

[Poec54]

I gave zero input as to whether using WC specimens was good bad moral immoral ect. You're letting your imagination run wild. I'm stating that there is a lot that allows Germans to produce more spiders that has zilch to do with husbandry. So yall can quit with the we don't know anything compared to the Germans. I see the same crap with working dogs.

Well the Germans are producing more CBB's than anyone, and we're buying more of them from them than anyone. This isn't like domestic dogs that have been domesticated for 15,000 years, where things have been figured a long time ago. This is new territory and the Germans are ahead. Once it's all figured out, the US will be equally as good, but we're not there yet.

 

[TroyMcClureOG82]

If we had the sheer volume of spiders that are in Germany concentrated into a geographical area the size of Germany combined with lax laws and smuggling do you believe they would be outproducing us?

 

[Poec54]

If we had the sheer volume of spiders that are in Germany concentrated into a geographical area the size of Germany combined with lax laws and smuggling do you believe they would be outproducing us?

We have a lot of species in the US, and long enough for many of them to mature; what's our excuse for not being able to breed many of them? The first thing you did here was complain at the reduction of species that are available now versus when you were collecting: evidently we failed to keep them going. Maybe smuggling gets species started in Europe. We get the slings after they've bred them, and we can't seem to produce slings from a lot of them. I don't know why the resentment at Germany; we wouldn't have nearly as many species here if it wasn't for them. We keep buying them from Europe, and getting more and more chances to breed, and we still don't have a lot to show for it. As far as smuggling, there's so many things coming into the US illegally, including huge amounts of drugs and millions of illegal aliens. Spiders are coming in under the radar here too. The difference is we don't seem to be reproducing them like the Europeans do. Maybe they appreciate them more than we do, maybe they're not as complacent. With us importing hundreds of thousands of their slings over the last two decades, you'd think we'd be self sufficient by now. If the European pipeline ever gets shut off, the hobby here will take a big hit. We've got a handful of people here breeding some of the rare species, they can't breed everything and with what they are breeding, they can't supply the whole country.

 

[bscheidt1020]

No,the humidity is about 5%ish higher than the rest of the room,10% higher in the cages for my T's that like 80% humidity,without keeping them swamped.BTW,I've had good success breeding birds,too.Just keep doing things the old way,your T's will be healthy and fine,even if they don't reproduce.Stay in your comfort zone.I'll be happy to sell you babies down the road.

---------- Post added 01-11-2015 at 02:54 PM ----------


You're just parroting information passed on to you.You've done no research to determine whether or not it's important.You have no idea whether it's important or not.What are you doing to further the hobby? At least I'm trying some different techniques,which succeed or fail,will move the hobby forward just a tiny bit.I'm not just trying to keep them alive,that's easy,I'm trying to breed.And I don't take offense on random people's opinions on the interwebs.

This is a sign for you to decompress a little. We all have a common interest and want the best for this hobby. I am not ready to breed but if I decide to take the step I hope I am a bit more humble in my approach. Whether you believe your techniques are better than everyone else or not, there is more than one way to skin a cat. If you are as on the cutting edge as you say you are, then you should be doing it for the hobby and fellow hobbyists, not to show your superiority....OK Kobe Bryant? Nobody cares if you drop 40 a game if your team is still losing. Explain your methods for everyone to examine and adopt to the degree they see fit, or stop ranting about how much your doing for the hobby. Poec is a long time keeper with loads of experience and I don't see him tooting his own horn here....nor Stan Schultz.....show some respect to this hobby and recognize the company your in when your talking yourself up.

 

[TroyMcClureOG82]

We have a lot of species in the US, and long enough for many of them to mature; what's our excuse for not being able to breed many of them? The first thing you did here was complain at the reduction of species that are available now versus when you were collecting: evidently we failed to keep them going. Maybe smuggling gets species started in Europe. We get the slings after they've bred them, and we can't seem to produce slings from a lot of them. I don't know why the resentment at Germany; we wouldn't have nearly as many species here if it wasn't for them. We keep buying them from Europe, and getting more and more chances to breed, and we still don't have a lot to show for it. As far as smuggling, there's so many things coming into the US illegally, including huge amounts of drugs and millions of illegal aliens. Spiders are coming in under the radar here too. The difference is we don't seem to be reproducing them like the Europeans do. Maybe they appreciate them more than we do, maybe they're not as complacent. With us importing hundreds of thousands of their slings over the last two decades, you'd think we'd be self sufficient by now. If the European pipeline ever gets shut off, the hobby here will take a big hit. We've got a handful of people here breeding some of the rare species, they can't breed everything and with what they are breeding, they can't supply the whole country.

I suspect if all of the slings we were importing were coming into an area say the size of the state of New York that we would see a much different outcome. I think it has as much to do with logistics as anything

 

[jigalojey]

As someone who watches the American hobby instead of actually being involved in it I have come to the conclusion about why I think the hobby is so far behind the Europeans. I bet if I gave half of you a map you couldn't even point out where your tarantulas come from, you don't have any idea what the temperatures are like where they're from let alone seasons etc so you're left with trying to breed an Indian spider in American conditions or some 20th hand passed down info. Lets take a look at the Europeans, whats the famous saying?? Whenever there is a new species discovered there is two Germans packing their bags with vials and heading to the location?? These people have hands on experience, these people study the environment and the spiders surroundings, the spiders temperatures and the seasons, they didn't just click a finger and magically make sacs appear, they drew up a game plan, added in facts and rinse and repeated until they got it right. The only tarantula us Aussies have trouble breeding is the Rattlesnake tarantula and guess what?? We don't know sh*t about them, coincidence isn't it?

 

[TroyMcClureOG82]

whats the famous saying?? Whenever there is a new species discovered there is two Germans packing their bags with vials and heading to the location?? These people have hands on experience,

That's a joke derived from the fact that they smuggle a lot of T's. There isn't a team of entomologist with lear jets just waiting the discovery of a new species. Do you watch a lot of Bruce Willis movies? Because you appear to be living in a fantasy. You just keep observing the American hobby from your island *yawn*

 

[jigalojey]

That's a joke derived from the fact that they smuggle a lot of T's. There isn't a team of entomologist with lear jets just waiting the discovery of a new species. Do you watch a lot of Bruce Willis movies? Because you appear to be living in a fantasy. You just keep observing the American hobby from your island *yawn*

And you just keep buying your European CB's and proving me right every time.

 

[TroyMcClureOG82]

And you just keep buying your European CB's and proving me right every time.

At this point in time I'm not sitting on any European stock. I think we need to call the jelly school

 

[Poec54]

I suspect if all of the slings we were importing were coming into an area say the size of the state of New York that we would see a much different outcome. I think it has as much to do with logistics as anything

We overnight spiders across the country every day, I don't see that the size of the country is a factor. It's sounding like you're making up excuses for America's meager results in breeding. We've had a couple decades and can ship spiders the next day to anyone in the continental 48. Any other theories?

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 06:05 AM ----------

At this point in time I'm not sitting on any European stock.

No species that originally entered the US as CBB from Europe? That's pretty rare.

 

[bscheidt1020]

As someone who watches the American hobby instead of actually being involved in it I have come to the conclusion about why I think the hobby is so far behind the Europeans. I bet if I gave half of you a map you couldn't even point out where your tarantulas come from, you don't have any idea what the temperatures are like where they're from let alone seasons etc so you're left with trying to breed an Indian spider in American conditions or some 20th hand passed down info. Lets take a look at the Europeans, whats the famous saying?? Whenever there is a new species discovered there is two Germans packing their bags with vials and heading to the location?? These people have hands on experience, these people study the environment and the spiders surroundings, the spiders temperatures and the seasons, they didn't just click a finger and magically make sacs appear, they drew up a game plan, added in facts and rinse and repeated until they got it right. The only tarantula us Aussies have trouble breeding is the Rattlesnake tarantula and guess what?? We don't know sh*t about them, coincidence isn't it?

I get your point but you are another "intellectual superior" with a poor approach. Condescending and ridicule are no way to help other hobbyists. It almost seems as if you take pleasure in perpetuating the idea of American stupidity. Fact is, it varies across the population, like any other country. Our system may be flawed(education) but our people are no weaker than Europeans or you Aussies. I think your point is valid and yet your delivery is that of a stuck up suburban couch quarterback. Visit the American southeast and maybe you will learn some manners. Pick your words carefully, as they have the power to do more harm than good. Then again, flexing your "muscle" over the keyboard is far to easy for those that are passive and submissive in their daily lives. My first conflict on these boards was about how people choose to speak to each other....and you are exactly the type I was referring to.

 

[TroyMcClureOG82]

We overnight spiders across the country every day, I don't see that the size of the country is a factor. It's sounding like you're making up excuses for America's meager results in breeding. We've had a couple decades and can ship spiders the next day to anyone in the continental 48. Any other theories?

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 06:05 AM ----------



No species that originally entered the US as CBB from Europe? That's pretty rare.

Comparing having a bunch of Ts in a small area to the ability to overnight them is a false analogy. I think there are a lot of factors such as smuggling and less young people buying a killing spiders among other things that lead to their success. Right now my collection is small. I have 3 WC adult females 2 CB adult females and a few various CB slings. I bought all the CB stuff from a local hobbyist breeder who was getting out. When I asked why he didn't sell his collection here for more money his response was "I always hated that place" lol