Sting Kit
- Thread starter DireWolf0384
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2009
- Messages
- 520
I guess I'm most interested in venomous creatures in my neck of the woods. I'm in Las Vegas, NV and keep forgetting who has what kind of Venom... I just need something put together for my self so if there is a bite/sting here I'm armed with information.
An example, I'm a nursing mother and was stung by a C. Sculpt (they run wild in my yard and house). I called poison control and asked if it was still safe to nurse after being stung. They had no information available on the scorpions. I've asked about the Cicada Killers that like my yard, poison control has no information on a sting or their reaction (dept. of agriculture has info and an Entomologist, but he's always out in the field studying Mormon Crickets lol). I've asked about the local recluse bites, no information on anything from them except one lady who said that if I digested the venom that the stomach acids would break it down??? (huh?? lol) (I even have a picture of a bite that I'm not too sure of, got it walking around my house after a break in, so lots of stuff stirred up, wasn't sure due to the area being numb and call poison control to ask for symptoms to watch for)
Anyway, I was hoping to find/buy something premade to keep at home or share with other moms on play dates... Or, if I can find information that's easy(for me to understand) and factual put together a chart to keep at home. I want to have/make/buy something that has a picture, lay and scientific name, venom type and basic information relating to it. I don't want a book, I want to make/buy something that is fast and easy to read in an emergency or panic type of situation.
I keep trying to remember everything I learn on here, but... I'm not perfect...
Does anyone have an example of a sheet like I mentioned so I could model it after it??
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2002
- Messages
- 4,341
Just thought I'd add a bit here. First off, less than a minute of searching online reveals:
http://www.eaaci.net/attachments/900_Nomenclature.pdf
Definitions vary? Surprise, surprise. A large panel of doctors decided to take a broader definition and toss the anaphalactoid definition? Doesn't surprise me either but it could have gone either way. It also doesn't surprise me that the mechanisms go beyond the simple textbook/edoc IgE mechanism. In effect, they have based their definition on the results rather than the mechanism and expanded into separate terms to differentiate the mechanism side of things. That being said, is there a better reference out there providing a different definition? Possibly.
In the end, though, this is all rather pointless debate. Since both your textbook sting-sensitize-sting-shock allergy and all of the other variations basically result in the same effects. This all started based on the epipen or no epipen side of things The epipen does not release an anti-allergen (though it wouldn't surprise me if they've got combo versions or whatnot now) It releases a vasoconstrictor to keep you alive. Sort of the difference between open heart surgery and CPR. The epinephrine does nothing to actually counter the allergic reaction .. like CPR the point is to get you to the hospital alive. So let's use the term "boogerhead" reactions to refer to severe, life-threatening "allergic" reactions to whatever that may or may not result from previous exposure. It is a good playground term to along with the playground credentials argument (I saw one extremely weak reference vs no references .. may play-by-play says that everyone slacked off on that one).
So is an epipen any good? I'm not going to say definitively because I don't really know much about the subject. My take based on my readings in university and since would be that for someone who knows how to use it and has had a legitimate anaphylactic reaction in the past or has reason to suspect that they might develop one, it may not be a horrible idea. Certainly they do save lives. That being said, I have known at least one person to confuse basically an anxiety attack (and not a particularly severe one) with anaphylactic shock. I've seen a lot of people freak out and claim to have severe reactions when all evidence is to the contrary. Sort of like the guy who flailed around for 15 minutes yelling at the top of his lungs that he couldn't breathe (that was a coke-related "choking" incident, not allergic .... but same deal). As has been noted, there is a lot of potential for misuse and damage from the treatment itself. I know one level-headed guy who has a severe bee allergy and carries an epipen in the field in part for scorpions and I think he is right to do so. Probably not for everyone, though. I may be missing something. As previously stated, not my area of expertise.
Cheers,
Dave
http://www.eaaci.net/attachments/900_Nomenclature.pdf
Definitions vary? Surprise, surprise. A large panel of doctors decided to take a broader definition and toss the anaphalactoid definition? Doesn't surprise me either but it could have gone either way. It also doesn't surprise me that the mechanisms go beyond the simple textbook/edoc IgE mechanism. In effect, they have based their definition on the results rather than the mechanism and expanded into separate terms to differentiate the mechanism side of things. That being said, is there a better reference out there providing a different definition? Possibly.
In the end, though, this is all rather pointless debate. Since both your textbook sting-sensitize-sting-shock allergy and all of the other variations basically result in the same effects. This all started based on the epipen or no epipen side of things The epipen does not release an anti-allergen (though it wouldn't surprise me if they've got combo versions or whatnot now) It releases a vasoconstrictor to keep you alive. Sort of the difference between open heart surgery and CPR. The epinephrine does nothing to actually counter the allergic reaction .. like CPR the point is to get you to the hospital alive. So let's use the term "boogerhead" reactions to refer to severe, life-threatening "allergic" reactions to whatever that may or may not result from previous exposure. It is a good playground term to along with the playground credentials argument (I saw one extremely weak reference vs no references .. may play-by-play says that everyone slacked off on that one).
So is an epipen any good? I'm not going to say definitively because I don't really know much about the subject. My take based on my readings in university and since would be that for someone who knows how to use it and has had a legitimate anaphylactic reaction in the past or has reason to suspect that they might develop one, it may not be a horrible idea. Certainly they do save lives. That being said, I have known at least one person to confuse basically an anxiety attack (and not a particularly severe one) with anaphylactic shock. I've seen a lot of people freak out and claim to have severe reactions when all evidence is to the contrary. Sort of like the guy who flailed around for 15 minutes yelling at the top of his lungs that he couldn't breathe (that was a coke-related "choking" incident, not allergic .... but same deal). As has been noted, there is a lot of potential for misuse and damage from the treatment itself. I know one level-headed guy who has a severe bee allergy and carries an epipen in the field in part for scorpions and I think he is right to do so. Probably not for everyone, though. I may be missing something. As previously stated, not my area of expertise.
Cheers,
Dave
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2005
- Messages
- 8,325
i couldn't resist seeing what SHD said. he's generally got great input, as is the case here
i am more than willing to do a more in depth cite thing... but i think it was kind of pointless. it was sort of terminal apples and oranges.
further, i am not 100% positive i am right... but i have read it in a number of places and provided a cite and a brief explanation of what SHD said: definitions vary, and i provided my working definition, with cite. *THAT* is what i wanted... a cite war would have been AWESOME for the thread. i sort of glanced through and saw someone else cited something? if so i would be down for reading up and coming back to this thread at some point... but i don't mess around with dangerous scorpions and have a zillion other things that are more important to be researching (like potato bugs =P )
my main point has pretty much always been this: an epipen is a 10-15 minute life extender for severe severe allergic reactions. full stop. it does not help in scorpion envenomations UNLESS you are also experiencing allergic reaction. when you get bit by something heavy, as SHD said, it is easy to panic and psychosomatize symptoms... and you need to KNOW that you are experiencing a severe anaphylactic reaction before injecting yourself with epinephrine is a good idea. injecting yourself with an epipen while you are experiencing scorpionism induced tachycardia and/or elevated blood pressure COULD POTENTIALLY KILL A PERSON or "just" give them the cerebral hemorrhage mentioned much earlier inthe thread!
i think i have generated cites for virtually all of that in the past, too, btw =P
i am more than willing to do a more in depth cite thing... but i think it was kind of pointless. it was sort of terminal apples and oranges.
further, i am not 100% positive i am right... but i have read it in a number of places and provided a cite and a brief explanation of what SHD said: definitions vary, and i provided my working definition, with cite. *THAT* is what i wanted... a cite war would have been AWESOME for the thread. i sort of glanced through and saw someone else cited something? if so i would be down for reading up and coming back to this thread at some point... but i don't mess around with dangerous scorpions and have a zillion other things that are more important to be researching (like potato bugs =P )
my main point has pretty much always been this: an epipen is a 10-15 minute life extender for severe severe allergic reactions. full stop. it does not help in scorpion envenomations UNLESS you are also experiencing allergic reaction. when you get bit by something heavy, as SHD said, it is easy to panic and psychosomatize symptoms... and you need to KNOW that you are experiencing a severe anaphylactic reaction before injecting yourself with epinephrine is a good idea. injecting yourself with an epipen while you are experiencing scorpionism induced tachycardia and/or elevated blood pressure COULD POTENTIALLY KILL A PERSON or "just" give them the cerebral hemorrhage mentioned much earlier inthe thread!
i think i have generated cites for virtually all of that in the past, too, btw =P