Sting Kit

[Cowin8579]

How about dipping the envenomed part to very hot water? Will that break down the protein or will it speed up its effects?

I have heard this, it works with marine venoms usually, and if we could stung on the finger this is an interesting concept.

In milk protein, whey is broken down and killed by heat, casein is not effected. Meaning some will break down, some won't.

If it doesn't work, it will increase blood circulation... moving the venom around. I believe the point in the blood not moving around, is not having it hit your sensitive areas so early, and allow your body time to fight the venom.

 

[Sarcastro]

I have heard this, it works with marine venoms usually, and if we could stung on the finger this is an interesting concept.

it's a common misconception that it works with the venom of marine animals, all it's used for... is the placebo effect to sooth nerves.It's mainly used by lifeguards on jellyfish stings and it actually can cause a rise in blood pressure speeding up the rate & intensity of the symptoms of other venoms

 

[cacoseraph]

i'm pretty sure it does something to some venoms. i am not much of a placebo kind of guy


of course, to get your blood to 110*F locally means you are going to cook bits of yourself. sometimes it is the lesser evil, though

i've only successfully used heat on centipede bites to manage the grotesque swelling boneache pain


i heard the killer scorpions don't have all that much in the way of venom pain... they just do organic and random toxic damage and stuff =P

 

[Cowin8579]

It is prescribed for sting ray envenoms, but isn't mentioned for the stone fish. :}

 

[cacoseraph]

my bro is a little tougher but less educated (about venom) and zenny than me... and he fully believes it helped him when he got stuck by a sting ray down in San Diego. he actually cried hehehee =P

 

[Sarcastro]

there's no way it can help on sting ray venom or any barbed sting. period. Because by the time you submerge or run hot water over the site the venom is already in your bloodstream doing it's thing, and another reason is that in 90% of ray sting cases the barb is detached and left in the wound..and if you pull it out yourself (which is not a good idea*look what happed with Steve Irwin*)you'll have blood loss if you heat up the blood vessels they expand which causes even more blood loss.

 

[cacoseraph]

well, whatever the mechanism it does help. you can't placebo that much relief. i never really got how something could be so finely heat labile that just a few degrees up (which as you say is really all you can do, short of cooking yourself) breaks it

but rest assured, for certain intense pains it feels markedly better


better in a way that alcohol, otc analgesics, and everything else i have tried just doesn't do.



btw, you are a dumb dumb DUMB person to self medicate fairly heavy CNS depressants (i.e. alcohol) in quantity for something like a gnarly scorpion sting. medicos might treat you symptomatically with CNS deps... but they kinda know what they are doing =P

i did a lot of research on CENTIPEDE venoms and never found anything to lead me to think it would be a big issue there. i did enough research on scorpion venom to know 1) and epipen can not help you and can only hurt you and 2) i don't want to get stung by a heavy scorpion. 3) alcohol is NOT to be taken for a serious sting and 4) if you mix alcohol and epinephrine AND a serious sting it could be really bad. really really bad. (*Ahem* do be sure to youtube it, if you do, though)


i always get the feeling a lot of ppl that keep hot scorps have not done anywhere near the reading and researching i did. scary. cuz i decided *not* to keep them after i did my learnins

 

[Irene B. Smithi]

duh thats right lol I remember reading about you having C. Sculp.'s in your house, by the way would you be able to sell off the ones that you find in your house?

I don't. I have someone that I send all my little guys to...

 

[Irene B. Smithi]

well, whatever the mechanism it does help. you can't placebo that much relief. i never really got how something could be so finely heat labile that just a few degrees up (which as you say is really all you can do, short of cooking yourself) breaks it

but rest assured, for certain intense pains it feels markedly better


better in a way that alcohol, otc analgesics, and everything else i have tried just doesn't do.



btw, you are a dumb dumb DUMB person to self medicate fairly heavy CNS depressants (i.e. alcohol) in quantity for something like a gnarly scorpion sting. medicos might treat you symptomatically with CNS deps... but they kinda know what they are doing =P

i did a lot of research on CENTIPEDE venoms and never found anything to lead me to think it would be a big issue there. i did enough research on scorpion venom to know 1) and epipen can not help you and can only hurt you and 2) i don't want to get stung by a heavy scorpion. 3) alcohol is NOT to be taken for a serious sting and 4) if you mix alcohol and epinephrine AND a serious sting it could be really bad. really really bad. (*Ahem* do be sure to youtube it, if you do, though)


i always get the feeling a lot of ppl that keep hot scorps have not done anywhere near the reading and researching i did. scary. cuz i decided *not* to keep them after i did my learnins

I thought I read somewhere (may not be this forum) that you've taken lots of hits from some nasty little creatures... (I think that was on a discussion on someone(the nature boy) getting bite from an H. Mac and they talked about someone with your screen name taking some nasty bites) Is that only from Centipedes? Or have you played with all kinds of bugs and gotten bite?
(sorry if I went off topic, just came to mind )

 

[cacoseraph]

mostly just exotic centipedes and random local bugs of all kinds. nothing that any of the lit indicated was particularly dangerous. and so far, ten fingers ten toes still...

despite what it might seem like to some ppl, *i* research the hell out of stuff before i do it and i have a pretty good idea of what to expect. and heavy scorps are right out, in my book. crazy, slow acting neurotoxins just aren't my thing, apparently


i... don't like things you might only get to mess up once with.


when i can devote a whole, lockable room to my bugs and caged animals i do want to get a few crazy things... but not until then.















oh, here is a fun little q for those of you playing along at home: if you get stuck by your Lq how many hours do you need to pass before you know you are out of the hairy part of the woods and how many need to pass before you know there was no affect? and uh... when should you spike yourself with your precious epipens? and when should you NEVER spike yourself?

oh... and *where* should you spike yourself? cuz you can do skin, fat, muscle, vein, artery, bone, or...?

oooh... not so simple is it? no, it's not

 

[Irene B. Smithi]

mostly just exotic centipedes and random local bugs of all kinds. nothing that any of the lit indicated was particularly dangerous. and so far, ten fingers ten toes still...

despite what it might seem like to some ppl, *i* research the hell out of stuff before i do it and i have a pretty good idea of what to expect. and heavy scorps are right out, in my book. crazy, slow acting neurotoxins just aren't my thing, apparently


i... don't like things you might only get to mess up once with.


when i can devote a whole, lockable room to my bugs and caged animals i do want to get a few crazy things... but not until then.















oh, here is a fun little q for those of you playing along at home: if you get stuck by your Lq how many hours do you need to pass before you know you are out of the hairy part of the woods and how many need to pass before you know there was no affect? and uh... when should you spike yourself with your precious epipens? and when should you NEVER spike yourself?

oh... and *where* should you spike yourself? cuz you can do skin, fat, muscle, vein, artery, bone, or...?

oooh... not so simple is it? no, it's not

when you get one they just tell you to slam it into your thigh, oh and it does have directions on it. not with scorps. and use it basically when you're on you way to greener pastures only.

Never plan to own an LQ or anything of the like and I do have a lockable room. The hottest and nastiest I have, two OBTs (by choice) and the C. Sculpts, but that is due to them running wild here, not by choice!

 

[cacoseraph]

oh, that last bit of my last post wasn't directed at anyone in particular



i just get the VERY bad feeling that some ppl think an epipen is a get out of jail free card for any bad scorpion sting. it is pretty much the opposite. but just the psychological affect that *thinking* it is could dramatically change how a person treats their animals.




plus, the funny thing for me that i don't see brought up very often... those things have what... a one year shelf life? and they ain't cheap, as i recall. AND each one from the USA should have a serial number on it... so if you get it illegally from your grandma... well, that could get her into legal trouble after it gets you into physical trouble

 

[Irene B. Smithi]

oh, that last bit of my last post wasn't directed at anyone in particular



i just get the VERY bad feeling that some ppl think an epipen is a get out of jail free card for any bad scorpion sting. it is pretty much the opposite. but just the psychological affect that *thinking* it is could dramatically change how a person treats their animals.




plus, the funny thing for me that i don't see brought up very often... those things have what... a one year shelf life? and they ain't cheap, as i recall. AND each one from the USA should have a serial number on it... so if you get it illegally from your grandma... well, that could get her into legal trouble after it gets you into physical trouble

Yep, it's a one year shelf life... My copay for them is $5 and that's for two of them, but then I also have very good health insurance. And looking at mine right now, I only see a lot number, no serial number..

And I'll admite, and you know based on an "old argument" I got mine due to fear of the C. Sculpts, brown recluse (though I've found that most likely it's the L. Deserti (sp?) recluse) and loads of brown/black widow, not to mention the killer bees we do have here.

My daughters been stung by a bee (poor little girl lol but as soon as I pulled the stinger out it was like nothing had happened to her other then a bump for a few days) My son, who has very serious "Intolerance's" I don't know his reaction yet... so, plan to keep it on hand till I know.





AND it says on the EpiPen to... "1. pull off gray cap safety release. 2. Jab black tip firmly into thigh so it 'clicks' AND HOLD on thigh approx. ten seconds 3. Seek medical attention!"

It also states to NOT inject intravenously. "large doses or accidental intravenous injection of epinephrine may result in cerebral hemorrhage due to sharp rise in blood pressure.. Rapidly acting vasodilators can counteract the marked pressor effects of epinephrine if there is such inadvertent administration." it goes on and on, lots of very serious warnings...

Yeah, I think that you may be right, people 'might' think they have a cure all with it, which it is not. I saw that on Animal Planet.. This guy is going after a very dangerous snake, is deathly allergic to antivenom and said to get his EpiPen ready just in case... Not smart.

 

[cacoseraph]

no no, the AP guy is doing ok. some ppl have anaphylactic reactions to the horse serum type antivenom. if he has an ana shock reaction the epi can stave off death until he can be hooked into the proper life extending equipment



also, your copay is only a tiny portion of the actual cost of the pen. i believe they are somewhere in the $100-200 range on the er, free market =P



HA! based on my research i thought the blood pressure spike could be bad mixed with certain bug neurotoxins. i didn't realise mainlining that stuff by itself could kill you. i was/am so absolutely right it makes me want to dance a jig =P



you following that guys... not even talking about stings... just administering the epipen incorrectly COULD MAKE YOUR BLOODY BRAIN BLEED!!





also, orchid... you know you need to get stung twice to have an ana reaction, right? your daughter techincally isn't out of the woods yet. the next bee sting she takes will actually be the critical one. same with your boy, except it sounds like he hasn't had his "freebie" sting yet

only problem is i am not sure how much cross over there is with sensitization from all the hymenoptera (bees, ants, wasps, etc). i know i am not allergic to them... but there are harvester ants stings that make almost all the other bites and stings i take worse for a few days. well, i don't *know*... but it does seem to be the case. i need to research it and start carefully documenting my deal before i write it up

 

[AzJohn]

I think people are looking for a middle ground when it comes to scorpion stings. If you get a bad sting an epipen or anything in your sting kit is useless. There is no silver bullet, go to the hospital. I mentioned it earlier, discussing possible treatments with your doctor and having treatment info available at your house is your best bet. Rememer in most places you wont have antivenom avaiable, at least for exotic species.

John

 

[Irene B. Smithi]

no no, the AP guy is doing ok. some ppl have anaphylactic reactions to the horse serum type antivenom. if he has an ana shock reaction the epi can stave off death until he can be hooked into the proper life extending equipment

really? sounded off to me, but okay!

also, your copay is only a tiny portion of the actual cost of the pen. i believe they are somewhere in the $100-200 range on the er, free market =P
yep, that's why I love my health insurance...


HA! based on my research i thought the blood pressure spike could be bad mixed with certain bug neurotoxins. i didn't realise mainlining that stuff by itself could kill you. i was/am so absolutely right it makes me want to dance a jig =P

don't forget to 'youtube it' I want to see the jig

you following that guys... not even talking about stings... just administering the epipen incorrectly COULD MAKE YOUR BLOODY BRAIN BLEED!!





also, orchid... you know you need to get stung twice to have an ana reaction, right? your daughter techincally isn't out of the woods yet. the next bee sting she takes will actually be the critical one. same with your boy, except it sounds like he hasn't had his "freebie" sting yet

has any one ever told you that you are incredible annoying lol

So, I've only ever been stung once, does that mean I'm still at risk lol, just based on that I'd go get my self stung on purpose and get it overwith.

only problem is i am not sure how much cross over there is with sensitization from all the hymenoptera (bees, ants, wasps, etc). i know i am not allergic to them... but there are harvester ants stings that make almost all the other bites and stings i take worse for a few days. well, i don't *know*... but it does seem to be the case. i need to research it and start carefully documenting my deal before i write it up

the ant thing. there is one kind of ant that if it stings me, I can run my nail across the sting site and write my name in my skin!! does that make sense? the bite will follow the nail... I don't know how to explain it... I just drag the nail along the skin and a raised elongated bite follows.. what would that be?

 

[cacoseraph]

has any one ever told you that you are incredible annoying lol

all the time =P

i do genuinely want to make sure you know that, though. BAD mistakes could be made

the ant thing. there is one kind of ant that if it stings me, I can run my nail across the sting site and write my name in my skin!! does that make sense? the bite will follow the nail... I don't know how to explain it... I just drag the nail along the skin and a raised elongated bite follows.. what would that be?

that's pretty crazy. i have no idea. does it hurt? i believe i can picture roughly what you are saying. i kind of think that might be a histamine thing, but i am not sure

you could try taking an antihistamine pill after you get stung (or actually, take it an hour before, if you are psychic =P ) and try that again

 

[DireWolf0384]

So basically I am hearing that you should either ride the storm out or go to the ER? I just did not know if there was anything on the market work getting. I heard Benedryl and Tylenol or Ibprofen works for mild stings but that's pretty much it.

 

[Sarcastro]

also, orchid... you know you need to get stung twice to have an ana reaction, right? your daughter techincally isn't out of the woods yet. the next bee sting she takes will actually be the critical one. same with your boy, except it sounds like he hasn't had his "freebie" sting yet

I don't know where you got that tidbit of information but it's incorrect.Anaphylaxis can surface at anytime from the 1st sting to when ever..the people whom are more sensitive it can surface sometime or every time stung...I've been stung 1000+ of times through the year by just bee's,and I could be stung right now and go into shock.my nephew had a severe reaction on his very first sting..he swelled like a balloon turned red like a boiled lobster and had breathing difficulty.some people may go there whole lives with out having a reaction

 

[cacoseraph]

could you cite that?

i am almost certain you need a sensitizing sting



just cuz your nephew got some kind of reaction on his "first" sting does not mean anything. he could have been stung and not told anyone... or been sensitized by ants.