Really big problem, need help!

[cheetah13mo]

No flies at all. Nothing living in the room that should not be. Yep only pokies. Nothing else seems phased by this at all. And nothing above 2.5". Most of them are much smaller around 1".

I've also noticed that it takes longer for the larger T's to show the full blown signs of D.S. The syndrome will attack and render the smaller T's helpless, quicker. As a consiquence, by the time the larger T's are showing D.S., it seems to be too far gone. Like I said, I was able to pull a small, penney sized sling out of it but that was the only one. Good luck with this.

 

[Talkenlate04]

The more I think about it the more it does not seem like DS. From start of symptoms to death it is about a day. That seems fast for DS right?

 

[fantasticp]

I just have never seen T's bite off their legs like this. It's disturbing and sad at the same time.

They weren't eating the cocofiber mushrooms that show up sometimes in tanks were they? Ok, bad joke.

I have never seen something like that. They attack moslty on movement, right? I mean T's don't feel itchiness or other sensations like that as far as I know, so what would be going on in its head to make it do that?:?

 

[saminthemiddle]

It does sound fast for DS.

The more I think about it the more DS sounds like exposure to neurotoxins, which makes sense for two reasons:

1) The spiders seem to get it from exposure to feeder animals.

2) Many pesticides act on the animal's nervous system.

I'm betting what you got is tainted food, it's probably showing up in your slings first because the effective dose of a bioaccumulated toxin is lower for the smaller animals.

With any luck by changing your feeders you can minimize the risk that you will loose your larger animals. With any luck the larger animals will be able to purge their system of the sub effective dose that they have already ingested.

I'm not sure why other people with DS report deaths as I would assume that the first course of action for DS would be a change of feeders. Possibly by the time the symptoms show up it's too late.

I just know that this sounds a LOT like pesticide exposure, likely through crickets that have ingested a sub lethal dose, likely from a cropdusted grain feed.

 

[Talkenlate04]

I just know that this sounds a LOT like pesticide exposure, likely through crickets that have ingested a sub lethal dose, likely from a cropdusted grain feed.

There are 1000's of spiders in the room. I would think if there was some high level of pesticide more then just one area of slings would be affected. My feeders are also from a long standing colony of roaches that have been feeding my collection for 3 years now ever since I switched from crickets to roaches.

 

[cheetah13mo]

The more I think about it the more it does not seem like DS. From start of symptoms to death it is about a day. That seems fast for DS right?

None of the D.S. I've experienced took less than 2 months from start of symptoms to death. Some took more than 6 months from start to finish. I don't think your issue is D.S. either. Whatever it is, it does show the same effects.

 

[RottweilExpress]

Is D.S even a fact so to speak? Isn't it just a name for a bunch of symtoms that keepers has been observing? As you are, I'm starting to doubt that D.S is a real culprit here. For all I know D.S is something heavily medicated psychiatric patients can develope. Also rats exposed to a certain virus developed this syndrome.

Dysfunctional movement before death in a spider could mean lots of things. I guess we're back at poisoning, bacteria or virus. I also doubt Cheeta's stress explenation.

 

[saminthemiddle]

I'm thinking possible nematodes but I'm not ready to rule out pesticides just yet.

I was just about ready to rule out pesticides due to Talkenlate's use of home brew feeders but I was thinking and realized that there is another vector for toxins to reach the spiders: water. Nematodes can also be spread though water easily.

What is your water source Talken?

 

[Talkenlate04]

Boiled tap water.

 

[UrbanJungles]

Hey Ryan, the deaths yo are describing sound alot like pesticide poisoning.
I hope this gets resolved fast for you....

 

[Talkenlate04]

Hey Ryan, the deaths yo are describing sound alot like pesticide poisoning.
I hope this gets resolved fast for you....

I wish I could find something to blame if that was the case. But there are no chemicals in my place not even for storage. I guess we shale see if there are more cases when I get off work in an hour.

 

[crpy]

I'm thinking possible nematodes but I'm not ready to rule out pesticides just yet.

I was just about ready to rule out pesticides due to Talkenlate's use of home brew feeders but I was thinking and realized that there is another vector for toxins to reach the spiders: water. Nematodes can also be spread though water easily.

What is your water source Talken?

This is a stupid question but oh well, I was thinking nematodes also, and if so would'nt it be possible to get a vet to do a necropsy? Somebody has to know a vet out there that would do this:?

 

[Talkenlate04]

I have had a few nematode occurrences in the past and one thing is for certain, nematodes did not kill anywhere near as quickly as these guys are dying. I had a smithi take 6-7 months to finally give and die from them. These guys are dying within a few days tops.
Are nematodes known to kill that fast?

 

[saminthemiddle]

Okay, for me I think the most important thing to do is to isolate the disease vector. Here's where we stand so far:

Foodborne: No
Waterborne: No
Airborne: Highly unlikely but possible

I'm now thinking it might have something to do with the substrate or decorations/hides. So:

1) what kind of substrate do you use?

2) what kind of hides and/or decorations do you use?

3) how do you prepare them?

Personally, I'm thinking they are probably infected with nematodes. It makes sense for a number of reasons:

1) The new spiders would be infected first as they would be on new substrate that (according to our hypothesis) is infected, unlike the old substrate.

2) Spiderlings are being infected first. Spiderlings, unlike most of their bigger cousins spend their time burrowed in the substrate thus increasing their exposure to the disease.

3) Spiderlings are kept at increased moisture which provides a better disease vector for nematode infection.

4) We already have proof positive of nematode infected spiders exhibiting these symptoms.

 

[crpy]

Okay, for me I think the most important thing to do is to isolate the disease vector. Here's where we stand so far:

Foodborne: No
Waterborne: No
Airborne: Highly unlikely but possible

I'm now thinking it might have something to do with the substrate or decorations/hides. So:

1) what kind of substrate do you use?

2) what kind of hides and/or decorations do you use?

3) how do you prepare them?

Personally, I'm thinking they are probably infected with nematodes. It makes sense for a number of reasons:

1) The new spiders would be infected first as they would be on new substrate that (according to our hypothesis) is infected, unlike the old substrate.

2) Spiderlings are being infected first. Spiderlings, unlike most of their bigger cousins spend their time burrowed in the substrate thus increasing their exposure to the disease.

3) Spiderlings are kept at increased moisture which provides a better disease vector for nematode infection.

4) We already have proof positive of nematode infected spiders exhibiting these symptoms.

And my respect grows deeper

My girl friend is a vet tech, im inquiering now, im also gonna talk to my vet friends at Disney they treat anything and have treated "T"s.
This may take awhile but I got into this thread.

 

[Talkenlate04]

1) what kind of substrate do you use?

2) what kind of hides and/or decorations do you use?

3) how do you prepare them?

Peat moss bought in a large bag that gets baked before used.

Cork bark, but that is not present in any of the affected slings setups. No other deco used.

1) The new spiders would be infected first as they would be on new substrate that (according to our hypothesis) is infected, unlike the old substrate.

New spiders? I am confused.

 

[AubZ]

How long have you have the slings before they started this behaviour?
I really hope we can try figure this out.

My T took about 3 days max after I noticed the symptoms and was not like your vid. She never moved as actively, just kept touching the sub and lifting her legs continuosly until stopped. Then would start again.

 

[Talkenlate04]

How long have you have the slings before they started this behaviour?
I really hope we can try figure this out.

My T took about 3 days max after I noticed the symptoms and was not like your vid. She never moved as actively, just kept touching the sub and lifting her legs continuosly until stopped. Then would start again.

Most of the slings affected are cb regalis slings all from the same sac bred by me. Only two other Ts not from that sac have been affected. So far at least. Ill have an update here in about an hour when I get home.

 

[SPDRgod]

Karma maybe? ha ha

 

[AubZ]

What about the rest of the sac? Do you still have them or were they sold off? If so contact the other people you sold to and ask them if they have noticed any symptoms? If it is just about the whole sac, then maybe there was a problem with it and the other 2 T's were just conincidence? I hope so for your sake as I know you have a huge collection. Let's see the update in an hour. I am holding thumbs NO new cases.