Poecilotheria metallica spiderling's

[phormingochilus]

I have made two sacs recently of "Chilocosmia? sp. 'cebuensis' " (sorry for the "fuzzy" name - it's getting sorted out by qualified persons allready) - a little but impressively productive LOL brown jobbie from the Philippines, that looks like a small and dull version of Selenocosmia dichromata - they go cheap if you are interested ;-)

Søren

for the true hobbyist LBJ's are the real deal.

 

[Immortal_sin]

I certainly wasn't pointing fingers at US dealers either.... in fact, I was thinking in such general terms, that it could include even the long time hobbyists too. I know Kelly has written some great articles on breeding (C cyaneopubescens comes to mind). Charlie (Botar) and Scott (Scott's Tarantulas) do breeding loans with me back and forth regularly.
I'm not even neccessarily talking about being not willing to help, it just seems rather fragmented here for some reason. Of course, I'm not in Europe, so I can only guess what it's like over there.
I think that the US breeding scene has come a long way in even 3 short years. I now see at least double to triple adverts for breeding loans. I don't remember seeing that many at all when I first started. I think it's fantastic that even a new hobbyist can contribute something to the overall hobby. The fact that ANYONE can attempt to breed a pair of spiders, and is encouraged to do so, is a positive thing IMO.

 

[Martin H.]

Hi Søren,

...But who knows?

you don't expect from me to tell names here, do you!? =;-)

Cheers,
Martin

 

[phormingochilus]

True it will but it may take years and years before the first babies are seen again. Take into account the collecting of firewood and deforestation and the full damage is done.

Yup - those humans are horribly destructive - worse than feral cattle, pigs, dogs and goats combined ;-)

This is true but remember for who they are collecting... It's mainly for us, the tarantula keepers. The prices paid for specimens by the exporters are relatively so high that a weeks work will get them a months pay.

Again the real danger is the humans, those who support the trade and those who support the destruction of habitats to generate money in one way or the other. Spot collecting by hobbyist is not the main problem in my eyes.

I gather you have this from personal observations and did a full study on the area?

LOL - I wish I could have covered and mapped and charted the the full distribution of theraphosids in this area, but my info is gathered from triangulating the different known localities and interpolating the spread range from there. It's not that difficult if you have sound info.

Nope, one specimen will not destroy the colony but say you take a gravid female, you take also the eventual off-spring. That's not one animal anymore. A lot of other animals benefit from these, by eating them or by being eaten (and so to stop these from overpopulating).

Yep - and every step you take has an impact on some being, even observing something has an impact on that thing. It's a matter of where you draw the line. Limited non destructive impact is not bad, but non sustainable destructive impact is of course a bad thing no matter how you look at it.

Well, maybe we should stop sending all these medicines...

Actually much of the help from the western world to these parts of the world are restraining the development of the same countries. But that's a whole other story that doesn't sound really good in humanistic ears. So let's leave it here.

Sorry but here I don't agree. How can you tell you are keeping the stronger genes out of the nest? If you sell spiderlings from the start you might sell the stronger animals. If you want to do it like this I would keep everything back till they are juvenile and are able to being sexed. That way you keep the strong healthy ones for breeding and you get to keep the sex you want. Now I'm not implyng that you should sell of the weaker ones. They would have died by that time anyway.
Getting an eggsac, keeping some behind for yourself and then sell off the rest without knowing what you sell and what you keep back is not the way to start captive breeding groups.

Don't be sorry - different points of view are allowed ;-) I believe we have different approach (or definitions?) on what is a healthy and sustainable breeding group. For once I never even considered sorting the gene pool? I usually keep 20 unsexed spiderlings from each batch, and depending on species there will be 50/50% - 80/20% males - which with a delaying scheme makes males available for me over a period of two years - starting roughly 2 years after - depending again on species and feeding. Usually the death ratio - again depending on species is between 10 - 50% so I usually ends up with at least 5-10 adult males. From the female surplus I choose the most beautifully coloured or patterned to become the next generation of breeders, and then sell or give away the rest, so when the very big and old females start to breed badly, the next female generation will be ready. True - this is not big big time breeding schemes with around 100 breedable specimen cycles, but it works for me ;-)

I must admit I think the same about you. I know how you work and most of my comments weren't directed at you but I know you know that.

;-)

Of course I will! The taxonomist that I work with gives the lecture so I just have to go and see if he makes mistakes

LOL!!!

I am mostly looking forwards to the dinner the day before - it's usually the most relaxed atmosphere to talk and discuss with like-minded people - something that is usually almost impossible during the show itself ;-)

Anyways I'm looking forwards to see you (and all you other guys coming) again this year ;-)

Regards
Søren

 

[phormingochilus]

Well - I for one could care less, but maybe the implied persons may get a wee bit disappointed with you ;-)

Hint me - is it any of the three known groups or are they from the eastern europe? If any at all?

Regards
Søren

Hi Søren,

you don't expect from me to tell names here, do you!? =;-)

Cheers,
Martin

 

[Lopez]

The price will first drop when the monopoly is broken - either by some of the other collectors or when the first batch is big enough to breed. I saw a mating of two adults from the first batch in another thread on this site, so I guess that the price decline is close at hand if they succeed in breeding them, though I suppose the first batch from such small specimens will barely be enough to split among friends ;-)

Søren

But for the monopoly to be truly broken it needs to be done so consistently and with much repetition or the lower priced competitor will just be passed off as bargain "rogue" low-price specials...... Martin I think we discussed this on arachnid_world around the time of the first P.metallica spiderlings??

 

[Martin H.]

Hi Henrik,

... I forgot.... I just came back from India with a new poke species( hopefully P. Wesseli)... who will deciede the price ??? come on

Should I sell it cheap and no one will be interested in breeding it... and it will disapear from the hobby in 2 years almost like P. Smithi (6 -8 years ago P. Smithi was introduced to europe but the price was lower than fasciata and everybody wanted fasciata.. where are all the smithis now)

do you really think that the low price is the reason why P. smithi is almost gone!? I ask, because in another thread you mentioned that there are big problems with breeding this species: >>click here<<

...and aren't there a lot of species (e.g. B. smithi, B. vagans, B. albopilosum, L. parahybana, A. geniculata, A. versicolor, P. cambridgei, P. irminia, P. fasciata, P. regalis, ...) which are very cheap and even they are so cheap a lot of people are breeding them! Or because they are so cheap? On the other hand there are species which are expensive, but only few people are breeding them (M. mesomelas, Xenesthis spp., P. smithi, P. subfusca, P. metallica, ....). So the price can't be the main factor if a species is bred enough to get established in the hobby!

or should I sell it expensive... so only experinced breeders will buy the spider and they will breed it and it will not disapear from the hobby....

experienced breeders or the ones with money!? Or is having enough money equal to be experienced!? Help me =;-)

all the best,
Martin

 

[Hendriks]

Hi Henrik,

do you really think that the low price is the reason why P. smithi is almost gone!? I ask, because in another thread you mentioned that there are big problems with breeding this species: >>click here<<

...and aren't there a lot of species (e.g. B. smithi, B. vagans, B. albopilosum, L. parahybana, A. geniculata, A. versicolor, P. cambridgei, P. irminia, P. fasciata, P. regalis, ...) which are very cheap and even they are so cheap a lot of people are breeding them! Or because they are so cheap? On the other hand there are species which are expensive, but only few people are breeding them (M. mesomelas, Xenesthis spp., P. smithi, P. subfusca, P. metallica, ....). So the price can't be the main factor if a species is bred enough to get established in the hobby!



experienced breeders or the ones with money!? Or is having enough money equal to be experienced!? Help me =;-)

all the best,
Martin

Well I am not saying that price is the main factor... but is for sure a factor... all the species you mention above were very high priced when they were introduced to the Hobby... and all the species were bread a lot in the beginning but today nobody is interested in breeding them( or ofcourseonly some of them)... where do I find a B. Vagans spiderlings today ???.

I remember the price on Geniculata when they were introduced.... and you should too Martin . .. but ofcourse the difficulti with breeding smithi has something to do with the small number of smithi's in the hobby... but still 7 years ago there were no problem in breeding smithis and if they were bread as much as the "highpriced"(7 years ago) rufilata I don't think we would have the same problem as we have today with smihi... (and as far as i can remember.. then there has been imported less rufilata than smithis into europe from India/sri Lanka)

Henrik

 

[Bearo]

are rufilata hard to breed? (wondring if it is why you compare smithi with rufilata)

have there been many sucessfull breedings with smithi earlier?

 

[Martin H.]

Hi Henrik,

... I forgot.... I just came back from India with a new poke species( hopefully P. Wesseli)...

same as this one >>click here<< />>click here<< or a different species?

all the best,
Martin

 

[surena]

Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. There are plenty of people more than willing to pay the price.
Quite simply, if you don't want to pay it then don't....but don't complain because others are willing to do so.

Well said in only a few words !!

 

[Martin H.]

Hi "Bearo",

as far as I know, no it's not...

please let us know what you know! => Why do you think it's not?

BTW, have you seen the P. sp. "wesseli" yet?

all the best,
Martin

 

[DR zuum]

Well said in only a few words !!

Yep like David Hannum said "Theres a sucker born every minute".Theres nothing wrong with taking full advantage of it.

 

[surena]

I can see where you get annoyed with Jeff buying things and selling them a few weeks later. It's not all his fault. He gets a lot of crap at home from his parents and that is part of the reason that he sells some of them. Not only that, but he has realized that at his age, there are more things to spend that kind of money on. I am not knocking the hobby at all... if you like spiders, then that's just your thing. I think they're kind of cool and I enjoyed coming down to your shop and looking around as well as playing with Taylor... but now Jeff feels that if he even wanted to come back down there to visit (because not only does he enjoy your shop, he enjoys you as a person because let's face it, you're a pretty cool guy) he feels like he can't because you don't like the way that he does business. It's a hobby. People get into it and people get out of it... he's still in it. But yes, there has been times when he has just gone all out and sold everything... is that a reason to cut all ties with that person permanently. See what I'm saying?! Well, we don't want you to not like us. Because as I said, I think that you are a really cool guy and I hope to be seeing more of you in the future... but that is basically up to you I guess. To everyone else, both of these guys are good guys so don't let anything on the computer make you think that one of them is an <EDIT> because they're not! Both of them are very well-liked and respectable guys! I don't know anything about spiders and I probably won't learn much more than what I learned in Biology and at Mr. Jacobi's shop. But I know people and both of these guys are great! Well, I guess I'm gone! This was fun, I should do it more often!

hmmmmm, Jeff that sound like I have heard that name somewhere before... I believe that I have in my position your previously owned Ephebopus Cyanognathus ! and Yes she is doing very GOOD

 

[Bearo]

Hi "Bearo",

please let us know what you know! => Why do you think it's not?

BTW, have you seen the P. sp. "wesseli" yet?

all the best,
Martin

Hi Martin..
I will PM you..

no I have not

 

[meatbeef]

Wow, that took some time to read.
I'm going to go make a snack now.

 

[Tarantulasse]

Yes...
Give me a break, and lay off the socialism, I get it enough in real life. Its threads like this that make the suppliers want to stop getting the rare species, the more expensive ones that take a lot of planning, a lot of paperwork, get a lot of hype and then as soon as people see the price tag they start complaining, only because they can't get one.

Here here!!! Hahahahahaha..... brilliantly said.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Hi Martin..
I will PM you..

I'd be interested in that information too Could you PM me as well???

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Andrew vV]

Oh!!! Me too!! me too!! It would be much appreciated Bearo :worship:

 

[DracosBana]

I'd like to know as well.