okay. something is seriously wrong. i need help fast.

[freedumbdclxvi]

Butterfingers with a deli cup. Not a far drop but the LP sling was around 24 hrs post molt. Seemed fine for a bit and them began displaying odd movements and spasms til finally passing not long after. No pesticides nor chemicals used in its vicinity or on any pets. The only thing I figured was internal injuries. As I have on other rare occasions had bouts of clumsiness without causing such an issue to the spider, I asume this sling was a bit more vulnerable due to its recent molt.

 

[klawfran3]

So what do I do now that I put it in an ICU? I am very worried and it seems to keep getting worse.this morning when I Awoke he was flipped on his back. I immediately righted him, and I noticed his abdomen was a bit larger, possibly full of the water. Maybe it has dehydration?

 

[advan]

Butterfingers with a deli cup. Not a far drop but the LP sling was around 24 hrs post molt. Seemed fine for a bit and them began displaying odd movements and spasms til finally passing not long after. No pesticides nor chemicals used in its vicinity or on any pets. The only thing I figured was internal injuries. As I have on other rare occasions had bouts of clumsiness without causing such an issue to the spider, I asume this sling was a bit more vulnerable due to its recent molt.

A fall is a fall, it can injure a fully hardened spider just as easily as a 24 hours post molt spider. I wouldn't beat yourself up about it, stuff happens. I still don't see how your incident compares to the OP's situation though.

So what do I do now that I put it in an ICU? I am very worried and it seems to keep getting worse.this morning when I Awoke he was flipped on his back. I immediately righted him, and I noticed his abdomen was a bit larger, possibly full of the water. Maybe it has dehydration?

Don't do anything. Just check on it twice a day and hope for the best. Quit disturbing it by flipping it back over. Good luck!

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

I liken it to the OP's situation in that disturbing a recently molted spider can have disastrous consequences.

 

[klawfran3]

so I got home today, and it was right side up, albeit still moving drunk. that's a start, right? i will try feeding in a day or two and see if that helps. I'm worried about the little guy.

now that I'm not rushing, I would like to put my side of the story in. when bruce molted, his legs were in a strange position so he got stuck in the molt. luckily, I got it off without injuring his legs AT ALL. quite a feat for such a small spider. I decided to just rehome it now, since i have it out, it was too large for it's last home anyways, and it's old burrow was completely wrecked from me trying to get it out without hurting a molting spider. so I set up a nice new home, with a pre made burrow (that was quite roomy for the little guy) and waited a day to introduce him, so he wasn't completely freaked out, and could harden up a just tiddle bit so it was less risky. he took straight for the burrow, and made a new home. he webbed it up nicely, and his fangs turned black, so I decided that it was time to eat, judging by how this OBT went a month and a half without food, and was already a little underfed to begin with. and he ate. he ate the entire cricket and there was no bolas to be found. the next day, I noticed him hanging on the side, to which i chalked up to him thinking the substrate is a little too moist. and then, yesterday, i found him drunkenly wandering around. I then posted this question, moved him to and ICU, and hoped for the best while people freaked out about me rehoming a recently molted spider. so there. hopefully that's enough back story for spiderengineer and P. Novak and freedumb, and anyone else yelling at me about it. although I admit I should have left him in the ICU for a little bit longer.

 

[prairiepanda]

so I got home today, and it was right side up, albeit still moving drunk. that's a start, right? i will try feeding in a day or two and see if that helps. I'm worried about the little guy.

now that I'm not rushing, I would like to put my side of the story in. when bruce molted, his legs were in a strange position so he got stuck in the molt. luckily, I got it off without injuring his legs AT ALL. quite a feat for such a small spider. I decided to just rehome it now, since i have it out, it was too large for it's last home anyways, and it's old burrow was completely wrecked from me trying to get it out without hurting a molting spider. so I set up a nice new home, with a pre made burrow (that was quite roomy for the little guy) and waited a day to introduce him, so he wasn't completely freaked out, and could harden up a just tiddle bit so it was less risky. he took straight for the burrow, and made a new home. he webbed it up nicely, and his fangs turned black, so I decided that it was time to eat, judging by how this OBT went a month and a half without food, and was already a little underfed to begin with. and he ate. he ate the entire cricket and there was no bolas to be found. the next day, I noticed him hanging on the side, to which i chalked up to him thinking the substrate is a little too moist. and then, yesterday, i found him drunkenly wandering around. I then posted this question, moved him to and ICU, and hoped for the best while people freaked out about me rehoming a recently molted spider. so there. hopefully that's enough back story for spiderengineer and P. Novak and freedumb, and anyone else yelling at me about it. although I admit I should have left him in the ICU for a little bit longer.

Anything suspicious about that batch of crickets? Abnormal death frequencies? Have you fed other crickets from the same batch to other Ts without issues?

That's the only thing I can pick out from your story that hasn't been addressed already.

 

[fromeasttowes]

I would wait a little longer to feed him. Trying to feed him now will most likely only bother him more, especially if he doesn't have his full mobility. Ts can go months without feeding and this guy has obviously been through hell the past week or so. Keep him in the ICU for now. Once he is moving around the ICU normally then take him out and place him back in the enclosure. Then wait a week after that so he can acclimate to his new home and then try feeding him. After all he did just eat a few days ago. I know things like this are stressful, believe me I've been there, and all you want to do is anything and everything you can to make your OBT better but these things take time and do not happen over night. The best thing you can do is put him in the ICU and let nature takes its course, thats the most and best you can do, no need to rush it. I'm sure he will be fine just give him the time he needs to recover.

On the subject of what is actually going on with your OBT, I have read before that the possibility exists of bad food being the cause here. The bad molt definitely plays in but from what you are saying he was moving around fine after the bad molt in the new enclosure, ate fine, then was on the enclosure side and then started walking around all goofy and drunk. There is no telling what the crickets have come in contact with in during their lives before their untimely fate between your OBT's fangs. Who knows it may have been carrying something on it that has adversely affected your T but that is a subject I'm not knowledgeable on, I have just read before that tainted meals can have harmful affects on tarantulas. Then there is the possibility that several others have noted of household cleaners, pesticides, flea controls for mammals, etc, etc that can harm Ts. I don't think dehydration is the problem here, I purchased an L. klugi not too long ago that was dehydrated when i picked it up from the LPS and it did not demonstrate any of the behavior your OBT is displaying. Just kinda sat curled up in the wet corner of the enclosure and was entirely unresponsive to stimuli, a few days in the ICU solved the problem fine so there is hope here that your OBT will recover. Just don't rush things.

Hope your OBT gets better.

 

[klawfran3]

Anything suspicious about that batch of crickets? Abnormal death frequencies? Have you fed other crickets from the same batch to other Ts without issues?

That's the only thing I can pick out from your story that hasn't been addressed already.

now that I think about it, that batch of crickets literally died over night. all fifty of them. I mean, I fed them to the other tarantulas, and I know that crickets die off quickly, but I got them sunday and all fifty have died.

ohh and I just realized that I got them from a new dealer, too. this may be going in a bad direction... maybe the crickets had something in them.

 

[Galapoheros]

I would've done what Silberucken suggested. You could throw something together real fast that is cleaner. It can't grab with it's scopulae, sometimes a sign of bad conditions that have damaged the scopulae, but not always of course. Good to crowd containers with sticks and other things with those, dry things.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

Nobody is "yelling" at you. People are just giving advice. This is the first you mentioned the stuck molt - you didn't in your other thread. I feel that's more reason to believe the issue started with disturbing it after the molt. It was stressed from getting stuck, and the legs seem to have been damaged, as it wasn't able to climb very well and had odd movements. It is very possible it was forcing another molt so soon to try and heal itself. For now, leave it alone in the icu aside from checking it a couple times a day.

 

[Aviara]

Each of the falls in the video could have injured that tarantula. The next time one of your arachnids is falling onto its back and struggling, don't take time to post, take video or let it continue falling, move it to an ICU container without height. If a human dropped to the floor having a stroke, would you immediately start taking video to show the doctor, or call 911? Furthermore, the point of an ICU is to provide the tarantula with A.) humidity and B.) a quiet, dark place where it can be left alone to hopefully recover. Once a tarantula is in ICU, it should be put in a quiet, still, dark place and not disturbed more than necessary for care (ie. adding humidity every few days). The more you disturb the tarantula, the more you stress it out and the less chance it is going to recover. Tapping on that P. murinus and letting it fall did nothing to help the situation. Further, please do not feed it days after you take it out of an ICU. Truly, I would leave it in the ICU for a week to two weeks, even if it looks healthy before then, to let it rest undisturbed.

Tarantulas live much slower lives than we do, so it can be easy to feel that you need to mess with or check in on the tarantula a few times a day. In reality, tarantulas do well being checked (when healthy) at most a few times a week, and can go weeks to months without eating with no ill effects. I have a G. rosea who will stay in the exact same spot without moving for over a week, it's just how these animals are.

 

[PlaidJaguar]

I'm sorry you're having problems! I hope your T pulls through ok.

Have you contacted the dealer who sold you the crickets? I imagine he'd like to know if something's wrong with them, and the sooner you tell him the less chance he will sell more tainted crickets to other people and possibly hurt more Ts.

 

[klawfran3]

well, today I woke up and the little guy was dripping clear liquid from his mouth, on his back, and starting to death curl.

it seems as though there could have been three things that caused this.... the bad molt, the switch into a new home, or the crickets. I guess I will have to learn from my mistakes and try again. I am very sorry if I have done anything to cause this, and I guess now I will just have to leave things alone and hope it recovers. thanks for yout help guys, but I don't think there's any way to save this one. sorry.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

Sorry to hear that he seems to have gotten worse.

 

[pperrotta03]

I have had great experience with zoo meds wipe out. You just have to be VERY careful with it. Dont spray it even in a room with any of your pets. Even after it is totally dry I take a brand new razor blade and scrape all the glass to make sure there is no residue on it. Works great though! And good luck getting him healthy again.

tappy tappa taparoo

 

[klawfran3]

Sorry to hear that he seems to have gotten worse.

It's a shame. He was one of my favorites. Hopefully this doesn't happen again. Poor thing. I don't expect him to last the day.

---------- Post added 09-26-2013 at 11:02 AM ----------

Sorry to hear that he seems to have gotten worse.

It's a shame. He was one of my favorites. Hopefully this doesn't happen again. Poor thing. I don't expect him to last the day.

 

[klawfran3]

well, Bruce is in a near unresponsive death curl, and probably doesn't have more than an hour to live. it's a real shame I couldn't do anything about it to help. i feel pretty bad, like this is my fault. the crickets must have had something wrong with them becuase some of the living ones are actually having the same symptoms as him. drunken stumbling and flipping to their backs. thanks for all your help guys, but I don't think we're gonna save this one.

 

[Antivenom]

now that I think about it, that batch of crickets literally died over night. all fifty of them. I mean, I fed them to the other tarantulas, and I know that crickets die off quickly, but I got them sunday and all fifty have died.

ohh and I just realized that I got them from a new dealer, too. this may be going in a bad direction... maybe the crickets had something in them.

All fifty died within a few days? Something had to be wrong there, crickets dying that quickly is ridiculous. Maybe that was a reason for the problem? Otherwise, I'm sorry things turned out the way they did. It may have been the crickets, but we will probably never know why what happened happened, so good luck in the future, hope nothing bad like this happens again.

 

[klawfran3]

Sorry to hear that he seems to have gotten worse.

It's a shame. He was one of my favorites. Hopefully this doesn't happen again. Poor thing. I don't expect him to last the day.

---------- Post added 09-27-2013 at 08:01 AM ----------

Well, this morning when I woke up, I have lost him. It's a real shame. He is the first tarantula I have ever had in my possession to die. Thanks for you help guys, too bad we couldn't save him. Now next thing. Should I report this DKS like symptom to the DKS thread?

 

[Aviara]

The liquid dripping from his fangs could have been hemolymph from physical damage due to the falls he endured. Regardless of whether the P. murinus died of pesticide exposure from the feeder crickets, another disease or internal damage from those falls, please learn a lesson from this and treat your tarantulas more carefully, especially when they are ill. Next time immediately set up an ICU with very shallow walls and moist paper towels and let the tarantula be alone in a quiet area of your house for a few days before you check up on it again. Our human tendency is to want to intervene and do as much as possible for these creatures when they are unwell, and to check on them frequently when they are in ICU, but there isn't much we can do to help a sick or wounded tarantula other than to leave it undisturbed in an ICU container to recover.