hybrid pic

[Talkenlate04]

I think that you can have a corrupt motive to do something. And from my standpoint I don't have one. I am not trying to make money, I am not trying to be famous, I am not trying to do any of that. And to further that point they are already 5 and 6th instar and this is the first I have spoke of it. Because its just my study.

So EricFavez you point is not valid in my eyes because I am not flaming him for wanting to do it, I am flaming him for his reasons for doing it. He has the star struck I want too because its "cool" outlook, and even hints and trying to see what the bid would be for one. And that to me is the wrong motive.

 

[EricFavez]

Ok how does anyone have the right to decide what reasons are right or wrong??? Is there a rule book here? The reasons for doing this are completely irrelevant! Im not against you doing it, Im against you doing it and then telling someone else that they shouldnt! You said you had not revealed this because of criticism, If you feel so strongly that you have a valid purpose than why would you be worried about criticism?..I mean its for your own study, remember?

 

[Talkenlate04]

Oh brother, you should listen to yourself.
Re read what I just said. I DON'T have a problem with him doing it. Never did I say don't do it. EVER! I don't know how else to get that point across to you.
What I don't agree with is the flashy just do it for what ever reasoning. I have a point to why I am doing it, And nowhere did I say my point is right and his is wrong, I simply stated that I did not agree with it. You cannot invalidate my opinion no matter how hard you try, because it is only my opinion.

Take this for example. I can be pro choice, but in the same token I believe it should not be something that is done just for the hell of it as a casual form of birth control.

See what I am getting at?

 

[metallica]

I'm going to combine M. mesomela an... M. mesomelas looks nothing like M. robustum.

 

[Talkenlate04]

Best of luck with them! the chance of succes is hmmmm 0.0%. A picture comes to mind from a lecture of Stuart Longhorn, showing the DNA of M. mesomelas looks nothing like M. robustum.

Can you point me to written articles on this? Maybe not the specific species mentioned above, but anything DNA related? I'd be very interested in reading anything you can point me to.

 

[metallica]

here is his home page, complete with contact info:
http://web.pdx.edu/~stul/

i'm pretty sure he will be at the BTS lectures in February. this should be extra interesting for you, as Andrew Smith will do a lecture on the redleg Brachypelma species. (due to a recent trip he and Stuart made to Mexico.)

do we really have B. baumgerteni in the hobby............?

 

[ballpython2]

If I don't get batter rammed over and over publicly for my decision, then yes I might be willing to post some pics in the future and make more of my findings public.

If you dont put em on here I'll gladly give you my email address so i can see em. (Actually i think you are on myspace friends list so if you put em in ya pictures ill check em out there)

 

[arachnophoria]

The problem with hybrids isn't that the animals involved are viewed as abominations.Hybrids,in some instances,have there place.For example,many plant hybrids have createdbeautiful and hardy variants of vegetables and flowers,but much of this is also selective breeding at work.The problem I see with hybrids,is that it is not only ''stupid'' people who mislable things that wreck havoc.This world is full of instances,where true T species are mislabled and sold as different T....how does one ensure this won't happen with hybrids?You can't and now there is the risk of contaminating a fixed captive gene pool.I think it is an excellent idea to ''experiment'' with common species,as TALKENLATE is doing,b/c it stnads to answer some age old questions about the possibility of fertile hybrids and may tell us if some ''species'' really are polluted gene pools of hybrid animals.It serves a purpose,rather than just one more human manipulation of the living world,that we don't need.Personally,I don't look in disgust at potential hybridizers,I just wonder quietly how anyone could be so bored or curoius to see these blended mutants,when nature as provided such a huge array of colorful,interesting Ts,with more popping up all of the time.I won't stone anyone to death or curse them in open forums,but for the sake of the captive gene pools,keep you hybrids to yourself and LABLE them.

 

[Moltar]

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=6346&postid=2496#post2496

i heard a lot of people don't like hybrid and most people thinks that hybrids are ugly. I used to agree to people that hates hybrid but after i saw this pic i had a change of heart. now i kinda like hybrids, im going to start a hybrid project for my own personal use. I'm going to combine M. mesomela and M. robustum ...when i have enough money to buy them

Omfg... do you even know WHY experienced breeders think hybrids are bad?

Hint: It's not because they're ugly.

 

[imjim]

no i just want the hybrid to be appreciated by people. i seen some tread where people talk a lot of negative thing about hybrids and i just realised now that hybrids ts are just the same as regular ts. they wont destroy the hobby, the irresponsible people that mislabel stuff will. my main goal on hybrid is to produce a one of a kind rainbow t and not making money.

also i have a question about the fragility of hybrid, some hybrids of other animal are stronger,one example is the mule. I even heard of a chicken x eagle that some stupid people use for cock fighting. anyways how come when it comes to the hybridation of ts, instead of becoming strong the slings are weaker.

Many here seem to get all wound up about hybrids as its something new just now.

Just casually reading I've read of others experimenting with hybrids since at least 1970 and probably before then.

Hybrids are nothing new just now and "who knows what" has been bred and sold since 1970?

 

[cacoseraph]

Many here seem to get all wound up about hybrids as its something new just now.

Just casually reading I've read of others experimenting with hybrids since at least 1970 and probably before then.

Hybrids are nothing new just now and "who knows what" has been bred and sold since 1970?

i think of this voguing (in style to knock hybriding) or parroting (just copying sounds). people seemingly just copy opinions without having done any actual thinking for themselves. pretty similar to why there are so many caresheets with RH% guidelines on them, even though they are useless and generally incorrect

 

[xhexdx]

Here's the part that made me disagree with you:

...i will only keep 10-15 slings (kill the rest)...

Creating life to destroy life for selfish purposes is horrible.

And although metallica stated that the odds are 0% of successfully cross-breeding those two species, they have small sacs anyway, so why not just keep them all? If you ever seriously get to that point where you're going to kill perfectly healthy spiders, I'd take them in a heartbeat to prevent it. I'm sure many of us would.

Anyway...unless it's for research purposes (and even that is a little sketchy to me), there's no reason to hybridize. It does ruin the hobby, as you can see by the whole Brachypelma crosses bullcrap.

 

[verry_sweet]

If I don't get batter rammed over and over publicly for my decision, then yes I might be willing to post some pics in the future and make more of my findings public.

I doubt you would be given a hard time since you are much more serious about this hobby than most :worship: I myself would be very interested in your personal experiment notes/outcome.

Disclaimer: I am also very much against hybridization unless it’s done by an extremely professional keeper…. that’s why I would never even consider the idea :8o and would blast anyone I deemed unworthy lol

 

[imjim]

Well I just want a Brachypelma sp. Red, White & Blue and do not care who does it or how it happens - I will buy it. . .

 

[cacoseraph]

Here's the part that made me disagree with you:



Creating life to destroy life for selfish purposes is horrible.

And although metallica stated that the odds are 0% of successfully cross-breeding those two species, they have small sacs anyway, so why not just keep them all? If you ever seriously get to that point where you're going to kill perfectly healthy spiders, I'd take them in a heartbeat to prevent it. I'm sure many of us would.

Anyway...unless it's for research purposes (and even that is a little sketchy to me), there's no reason to hybridize. It does ruin the hobby, as you can see by the whole Brachypelma crosses bullcrap.

dude, that is pretty much SOP in science world.

to not destroy more than he is comfortable keeping would be more irresponsible, imo.

plus, how is this very different from killing crickets and roaches for feeding? or the wars i wage on all the flies and german roaches in my apartment?

 

[xhexdx]

Are you breeding the german roaches just to kill them off? What about the flies? They're pests, not pets.

Killing crickets and roaches for feeding is exactly for that reason: Feeding. If he fed off the hybrids he didn't want to keep, that's not as bad, but I guess I just don't like the whole 'create to destroy' thing unless it's for a good reason. And I guess 'good' is my opinion.

And...what does SOP mean? Standard Operating Protocol? (Maybe I shouldn't have guessed at risk of being horribly wrong!)

 

[EricFavez]

I doubt you would be given a hard time since you are much more serious about this hobby than most :worship: I myself would be very interested in your personal experiment notes/outcome.

Disclaimer: I am also very much against hybridization unless it’s done by an extremely professional keeper…. that’s why I would never even consider the idea :8o and would blast anyone I deemed unworthy lol

See thats exactly what Im talking about....If your against it than there is no justifying it. Your either pro or con thats It! And who are you to determine who is the professional here and who is "Unworthy" ..Its a hobby not profession, probably 90% of us spend more money than we make on Ts!

 

[Truff135]

I have hybrids. But they will never be sold. Not to anyone. Not ever and not for any price. This test is not about making money. I am doing it purely to see if the second generation can reproduce, and what sort of effects occur if any in the second generation like mutations and deformities as well as color patterns, if I get that far. Even what I am seeing in this generation is really interesting. But that is where this ends. That is it. I am doing it to study.
And no I am not a scientist so this study really truly is just for me.

This, I have no problem with. I would also be interested in your findings. The only problem I have with hybridization is when it's done carelessly. At this point in time, I definitely think it's best (if you are going to attempt raising hybrids) to do it for a long time, document EVERYTHING, keep them to yourself, and do it for a few generations to make sure that they aren't going to self-destruct. It's one of those things that would take a LONG time to do right. I won't say I'm against it and I'm not necessarily for it, unless it's for experimental purposes that BENEFIT the hobby. So, kudos to you Ryan.

 

[Merfolk]

I don't think that hybrids are an abomination per see. If I had some cute ones, I'd appreciate them as much as the others. I'd just wouldn't involve them in any breeding#selling.

Some points to consider:

-Over the zillions combinations possible, only a handful would yield very nice animals. An hybrid that is lesser than either parent is not worth the effort and the risk.

-Species that are endangered or rare: we should focus on breeding true a sufficient population before thinking about any experiment.

-Like said, in many instance, there will be a lot of weak and dying offspring.

-There are no points in which hybridizing is truly useful. Like we crossbred and selected cows to have those chimera with milk glands dragging on the ground, meatier beefs etc

For the reasons above, I don't worry about hybrids becoming widespread and the natural version of the animals vanishing. We have plenty of watchdog breeders who won't touch hybrids with a ten foot pole and will only breed pure species, dealing only with like minded individuals. As long as we have a sufficient pool of pure bred of each species, and high profiled dealers to maintain them, experiments made by a handful seem less of a problem.

 

[verry_sweet]

See thats exactly what Im talking about....If your against it than there is no justifying it. Your either pro or con thats It! And who are you to determine who is the professional here and who is "Unworthy" ..Its a hobby not profession, probably 90% of us spend more money than we make on Ts!

Oh Eric don’t read so much into things I meant nothing by it except my own opinion, which by the way I’m allowed.