Help Please: Tarantula Illness Spreading Through Collection

[Teal]

Do you use any air freshening sprays/oils/incense/etc?

If you live in an apartment, they most certainly spray for pesticides.

Topical flea/tick treatments for pet mammals can transfer to Ts through physical contact... i.e. if you touch your cat and then work with your collection.

 

[Nepenthe56]

Update.
I corralled my P metallica into a catch cup and did a thorough inspection for mites. None on her. She was returned to her enclosure.

Then I busted out the microscope and inspected the obt spiderling carefully, both ventral and dorsal sides, no mites. The OBT seems to be regaining some motor function, it has been moving its legs more when disturbed than it has in previous days, but still unable to walk.

Finally I moved the GBB to an ICU, but first I examined it under the microscope. I noted there were a few mites, but nothing excessive. I counted 6 or 7 on the spider. The GBB did have a milky white liquid around its mouth. I swabbed some with cotton swab and it has the same color and texture of tarantula faces. Perhaps the spider is regurgitating? Anyways, I'm going to keep it in the ICU, keep it watered, and hope it recovers.

My current best explanation is flea medication got transferred from my cat by my hands, to my feeder insects which were fed to my spiders. Why these 3 seem to be the only ones affected, I have no idea, but I'll keep you updated. For now, enjoy some close up microscope pics.

 

[Nepenthe56]

OBT Dorsal view.

 

[ErinM31]

Update.
I corralled my P metallica into a catch cup and did a thorough inspection for mites. None on her. She was returned to her enclosure.

Then I busted out the microscope and inspected the obt spiderling carefully, both ventral and dorsal sides, no mites. The OBT seems to be regaining some motor function, it has been moving its legs more when disturbed than it has in previous days, but still unable to walk.

Finally I moved the GBB to an ICU, but first I examined it under the microscope. I noted there were a few mites, but nothing excessive. I counted 6 or 7 on the spider. The GBB did have a milky white liquid around its mouth. I swabbed some with cotton swab and it has the same color and texture of tarantula faces. Perhaps the spider is regurgitating? Anyways, I'm going to keep it in the ICU, keep it watered, and hope it recovers.

My current best explanation is flea medication got transferred from my cat by my hands, to my feeder insects which were fed to my spiders. Why these 3 seem to be the only ones affected, I have no idea, but I'll keep you updated. For now, enjoy some close up microscope pics.

Glad to hear your OBT seems to be recovering! Hopefully your GBB will too and none of your other T’s will be unwell! It is frustrating and nerve-wracking to not know what could be wrong with one’s pets! It sounds like you’re doing everything you can!

 

[Darth Molt]

Glad to hear your OBT seems to be recovering! Hopefully your GBB will too and none of your other T’s will be unwell! It is frustrating and nerve-wracking to not know what could be wrong with one’s pets! It sounds like you’re doing everything you can!

I heard ICU

Update.
I corralled my P metallica into a catch cup and did a thorough inspection for mites. None on her. She was returned to her enclosure.

Then I busted out the microscope and inspected the obt spiderling carefully, both ventral and dorsal sides, no mites. The OBT seems to be regaining some motor function, it has been moving its legs more when disturbed than it has in previous days, but still unable to walk.

Finally I moved the GBB to an ICU, but first I examined it under the microscope. I noted there were a few mites, but nothing excessive. I counted 6 or 7 on the spider. The GBB did have a milky white liquid around its mouth. I swabbed some with cotton swab and it has the same color and texture of tarantula faces. Perhaps the spider is regurgitating? Anyways, I'm going to keep it in the ICU, keep it watered, and hope it recovers.

My current best explanation is flea medication got transferred from my cat by my hands, to my feeder insects which were fed to my spiders. Why these 3 seem to be the only ones affected, I have no idea, but I'll keep you updated. For now, enjoy some close up microscope pics.

take your gbb out of icu

gbbs tend to get worse in an ICU not better.

 

[Nepenthe56]

I heard ICU

take your gbb out of icu

gbbs tend to get worse in an ICU not better.

I will, I was wondering about that since GBB's are such arid climate spiders. I'll just return it to it's enclosure and water it with a cotton swab.

 

[Darth Molt]

Sorry it’s late where I’m at and I’m forgetting how to use this site lol

I will, I was wondering about that since GBB's are such arid climate spiders. I'll just return it to it's enclosure and water it with a cotton swab.

make sure you have a water bowl near by I’m sure you do keep us posted

 

[Nepenthe56]

Yup, have a water bowl about an inch from the spider, but as it doesn't seem to be able to move, I'll still be hand watering it for the time being.

 

[boina]

Tarantulas don't carry communicable diseases like many other animals do. Yes, you do run the risk of introducing parasites into your collection - mites, nematodes, maybe even parasitic fungi like Cordyceps - but they do not carry bacterial or viral 'diseases' that can be spread to other tarantulas.

That is complete and utter nonsense. Every living organism on the planet can get bacterial and viral infections - hell, even bacteria get infections!

Unfortunately we don't really know what kind of infections tarantulas can get. Whenever there are symptoms like the ones the OP is describing people have this knee jerk reaction to blame pesticides/chemicals. I'm not so sure about that. The one time I know of that the deceased spiders have been pathologically evaluated the findings included unusual bacteria and microsporidia - but nothing toxicologically. Just because we don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Spiders die all the time without any obvious or clear and undisputed reasons - and in all those cases I'd always suspect an infection.

Then I busted out the microscope and inspected the obt spiderling carefully, both ventral and dorsal sides, no mites.

Mites are harmless and without consequence.

From what the OP is describing my bet is on a bacterial/viral infection.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Would I be nuts to suggest that communicable diseases would not be common in creatures that are mainly solitary? Seems like a sort of dead-end street, evolutionary speaking.

 

[mack1855]

creatures that are mainly solitary?

I agree with that idea...except in captive collections,of 20 or 30 T,s.they are no longer solitary.
I assume most T keepers don't keep separate tongs,tweezers for each of those animals.I know I don't.

At some point during rehousing, cleaning and routine maintance,there may be a chance of some
viral/bacterial exchange.

 

[Darth Molt]

I agree with that idea...except in captive collections,of 20 or 30 T,s.they are no longer solitary.
I assume most T keepers don't keep separate tongs,tweezers for each of those animals.I know I don't.

At some point during rehousing, cleaning and routine maintance,there may be a chance of some
viral/bacterial exchange.

Wash your tongs people

 

[ErinM31]

Would I be nuts to suggest that communicable diseases would not be common in creatures that are mainly solitary? Seems like a sort of dead-end street, evolutionary speaking.

I agree that we would expect them to be less common among largely solitary populations, although disease spread by vectors could still be prevalent. Another hypothetical opportunity for communicable disease among tarantulas would be sexually transmitted. The wandering male, long-lives female and potentially multitudinous offspring seem ideal for a retrovirus, especially one with long latency and/or low virulence.

 

[Nepenthe56]

Also there are generalist pathogens that will opportunistically infect anything they can. I don't think this is a case of infection, but if they do die I'll be dissecting them to see what happened.

 

[Vanessa]

Sure, it's a contagion. All those thousands upon thousands of tarantulas that are imported/exported across the world with no quarantine being observed, all those thousands upon thousands of tarantulas at expos across the world without any shred of quarantine, all those thousands upon thousands of tarantulas who are transferring from private collection to private collection across the world, even all those thousands of wild caught tarantulas entering collections across the world... and yet 99.99% of the hobby have never experienced the sudden death of multiple individuals in their collections.
All of a sudden one person out of thousands experiences a couple of sudden deaths in his collection and it isn't environmental... it's a pathogen. Some sort of unknown pathogen that we're all apparently playing Russian Roulette with. Some sort of deadly, yes deadly, pathogen that has the ability to wipe out entire collections, but nobody has a clue what it is, how it works, and there is not one source on the internet with any quarantine guidelines to ensure the safety of your collections when introducing new individuals.
This situation, and others like it, are not being caused by a communicable disease.

 

[ErinM31]

Also there are generalist pathogens that will opportunistically infect anything they can. I don't think this is a case of infection, but if they do die I'll be dissecting them to see what happened.

That is true. If it were an infection, I don’t think you would be able to determine that by dissection alone.

I would suspect that both T’s were perhaps made more vulnerable by separate causes — stress of relocation in one case perhaps — and that could be why whatever environmental factor has affected only them? I realize that is incredibly vague and unhelpful...

I hope that you are able to identify the cause and that your tarantulas recover!

Sure, it's a contagion. All those thousands upon thousands of tarantulas that are imported/exported across the world with no quarantine being observed, all those thousands upon thousands of tarantulas at expos across the world without any shred of quarantine, all those thousands upon thousands of tarantulas who are transferring from private collection to private collection across the world, even all those thousands of wild caught tarantulas entering collections across the world... and yet 99.99% of the hobby have never experienced the sudden death of multiple individuals in their collections.
All of a sudden one person out of thousands experiences a couple of sudden deaths in his collection and it isn't environmental... it's a pathogen. Some sort of unknown pathogen that we're all apparently playing Russian Roulette with. Some sort of deadly, yes deadly, pathogen that has the ability to wipe out entire collections, but nobody has a clue what it is, how it works, and there is not one source on the internet with any quarantine guidelines to ensure the safety of your collections when introducing new individuals.
This situation, and others like it, are not being caused by a communicable disease.

...

I never said that a communicable disease was the cause here, only that it is a possibility and even if an infection were secondary, it seems a sensible precaution to take care not to inadvertently transmit anything to the healthy tarantulas.

Since when does communicable disease equal 100% virulent deadly disease??? Such a disease would quickly go extinct along with its host(s)! Tarantulas do have innate immune systems. It is reasonable to assume that an otherwise healthy tarantula would be able to fight off many diseases even as we do.

I do not know why you are reacting so to my statements. I meant no insult. I am not saying everyone’s collection is in danger from some sudden epidemic. I am simply saying that it makes sense to take extra precautions with any sick animal especially when the cause is unknown.

 

[mack1855]

@boina
If you rule out the feeders,and then rule out environmental issues,then no possible contagion..
whats left?

If,and only if,the apartment next to the OP was sprayed for roaches/ants,whatever,then
that's suspect.The OP was looking into it.

So I ask,the folks who may know...does an insectiside/pesticide need to make physical contact
with a T,to cause harm?Can it be brought through the air ducts,be absorbed through the brook lugs
and cause problems?
The other thing is,was his apartment sprayed or treated without his knowledge,in which case his
entire collection would be exhibiting issues.
Bottom line is,i don't think anyone is saying its a new contagion.But its something to think
about as all other possibilities are eliminated.
@boi,would a pesticide/insecticide need to make physical contact with a
T to do damage.Direct contact?

 

[Darth Molt]

@boina
If you rule out the feeders,and then rule out environmental issues,then no possible contagion..
whats left?

If,and only if,the apartment next to the OP was sprayed for roaches/ants,whatever,then
that's suspect.The OP was looking into it.

So I ask,the folks who may know...does an insectiside/pesticide need to make physical contact
with a T,to cause harm?Can it be brought through the air ducts,be absorbed through the brook lugs
and cause problems?
The other thing is,was his apartment sprayed or treated without his knowledge,in which case his
entire collection would be exhibiting issues.
Bottom line is,i don't think anyone is saying its a new contagion.But its something to think
about as all other possibilities are eliminated.
@boi,would a pesticide/insecticide need to make physical contact with a
T to do damage.Direct contact?

He has cats with flea medication thus petting the cats then handling the feeders T eats feeder digesting flea medication. I’m not an expert just a thought

 

[boina]

Some people have strange ideas about infections...

'Infection' doesn't mean something that wipes out whole collections. Just take measles in humans - most times it's completely harmless, but sometimes people die from it. It's always about statistics and chance - you need the right pathogen meeting the right (or wrong, however you look at it) animal (including tarantulas) and then that animal may die - or it may not. Infections always happen - why would tarantulas even have an immune system if infections weren't a threat? I'm really astonished that people are so opposed to consider such an obvious and overall well proven idea. Even if we don't know the specific pathogens, we absolutely know they are there.

If it were an infection, I don’t think you would be able to determine that by dissection.

Of course you can. Why ever not? There are staining methods to demonstrate bacteria and fungi (microsporidia) in histology. Maybe I misunderstood - cutting open the tarantula isn't enough, you need to do an actual histology and I've only seen that once, as I said, but that one clearly demonstrated bacteria and microsporidia.

RE: Flea medication. Well, there's flea medication and then there's flea medication. If it kills only fleas (and not ticks/mites) then it's pretty safe. If it is advertised for ticks and mites, too, don't use it. Overall, your tarantulas need to get in pretty close contact with it, so most flea medication will still be fine because they only work short range. There are some new ones, though, that are specifically made to also target those pest not directly on your cat/dog and you should really, really stay away from those. I use Advantage and have used it for years on plenty of rescue cats without any ill effects.

 

[viper69]

Update.
I corralled my P metallica into a catch cup and did a thorough inspection for mites. None on her. She was returned to her enclosure.

Then I busted out the microscope and inspected the obt spiderling carefully, both ventral and dorsal sides, no mites. The OBT seems to be regaining some motor function, it has been moving its legs more when disturbed than it has in previous days, but still unable to walk.

Finally I moved the GBB to an ICU, but first I examined it under the microscope. I noted there were a few mites, but nothing excessive. I counted 6 or 7 on the spider. The GBB did have a milky white liquid around its mouth. I swabbed some with cotton swab and it has the same color and texture of tarantula faces. Perhaps the spider is regurgitating? Anyways, I'm going to keep it in the ICU, keep it watered, and hope it recovers.

My current best explanation is flea medication got transferred from my cat by my hands, to my feeder insects which were fed to my spiders. Why these 3 seem to be the only ones affected, I have no idea, but I'll keep you updated. For now, enjoy some close up microscope pics.

Assuming it’s chemicals, not all Ts are the same. Different species may have different tolerances, even within species too.

Some people have lost 1/2 a collection due to chems, but the other half was fine.

I see some people making absolute statements, and neither has supported their claims.. this is funny.