Help Please: Tarantula Illness Spreading Through Collection

[Nepenthe56]

HELP PLEASE
So about a week ago, I found one of my 3/4" obt spiderlings in a death curl. I bought it and one other about 2 weeks ago. I left it alone in case it was molting. After 3 days of nothing I flipped it onto it's back hoping that would help. The spider is still alive, moving slightly when I disturb it. It's been on it's back for several days now. I've been giving it water with a Q-tip by placing a drop on it's mouthparts. I can see it moving it's mouth parts when I do this. I assume it's drinking water.
Now today I was feeding the rest of my spiders and I found my 2.5" GBB in a death curl. I've left it alone and misted one side of it's enclosure and hopefully it's just molting. I noted some odd behavior with it the other day though. I was feeding it as usual, and it didn't want to eat, making me assume it was in premolt, but it was acting really erratic, running in bursts around it's cage, flipping itself over... etc.
I also noted in weird running spastic behavior in my subadult female 4.5" P. metallica. It's usually a little skittish, but this is different, it kept falling of the wall of it's enclosure, struggling to flip over. Once it flipped upright, it would run up the wall and fall again. Really freaking me out. She's also been seen randomly extending her fangs one at a time in odd motions. She's also has been refusing food for about a week now. The strange running and falling behavior was first observed in her 2 days ago.
Any insight or information as to what's going on and what I can do would be much appreciated. For now the suspect spiders are going to be quarantined and closely monitored and watered until they either die or get better.

 

[The Seraph]

Maybe it is not a disease but instead a toxic chemical. Could they have come into contact with any such substance?

 

[mack1855]

Were all the T,s feeders recently from the same source?.Unless the enclosures came in contact some how
and that's unlikely,correct?Enviromental sources seem most likely.Did you change any substrate recently?
Its going to be a process of elimination.Hope you find out,our best to you.

 

[Darth Molt]

HELP PLEASE
So about a week ago, I found one of my 3/4" obt spiderlings in a death curl. I bought it and one other about 2 weeks ago. I left it alone in case it was molting. After 3 days of nothing I flipped it onto it's back hoping that would help. The spider is still alive, moving slightly when I disturb it. It's been on it's back for several days now. I've been giving it water with a Q-tip by placing a drop on it's mouthparts. I can see it moving it's mouth parts when I do this. I assume it's drinking water.
Now today I was feeding the rest of my spiders and I found my 2.5" GBB in a death curl. I've left it alone and misted one side of it's enclosure and hopefully it's just molting. I noted some odd behavior with it the other day though. I was feeding it as usual, and it didn't want to eat, making me assume it was in premolt, but it was acting really erratic, running in bursts around it's cage, flipping itself over... etc.
I also noted in weird running spastic behavior in my subadult female 4.5" P. metallica. It's usually a little skittish, but this is different, it kept falling of the wall of it's enclosure, struggling to flip over. Once it flipped upright, it would run up the wall and fall again. Really freaking me out. She's also been seen randomly extending her fangs one at a time in odd motions. She's also has been refusing food for about a week now. The strange running and falling behavior was first observed in her 2 days

Did you have any pest control done in your house? Could be the feeders

 

[Vanessa]

That is some sort of environmental factor. Causes can include, but are not limited to...
Pesticides and Insecticides
Extreme Heat
Exposure to other toxic chemicals
Do you have snakes that you have given mite treatment to? Do you have cats, or dogs, who receive flea/tick/parasite treatment? Do you live in an apartment where your unit, or one close by, have recently been sprayed? Are people spraying for wasps/hornets close by?
Anything that would affect your tarantulas that quickly would kill feeders almost instantly. This has nothing to do with a bad batch of feeders.

 

[l4nsky]

That is some sort of environmental factor. Causes can include, but are not limited to...
Pesticides and Insecticides
Extreme Heat
Exposure to other toxic chemicals
Do you have snakes that you have given mite treatment to? Do you have cats, or dogs, who receive flea/tick/parasite treatment? Do you live in an apartment where your unit, or one close by, have recently been sprayed? Are people spraying for wasps/hornets close by?
Anything that would affect your tarantulas that quickly would kill feeders almost instantly. This has nothing to do with a bad batch of feeders.

This. It could be something that you recently changed like substrate or it could be something you have no control over like your landlord spraying pesticides. Do you have another place you can move them to without the potential exposure, like a friends?

 

[Nepenthe56]

I haven't changed any substrate, feeders have been coming from the same pet store for 2 years. The only things that have recently changed are 1) I've begun feeding more often, and 2) I recently acquired some new spiders, 7 in the last month. The first spider to become ill was one of the new spiders, the other ones have been kept in the same enclosures for about 2 years. All of my 15 spiders are kept in a bookcase in my bedroom. I live in an apartment. I will ask my landlord but neither I nor any of my roommates have observed any use of pesticides around our building. I do have a cat that receives a monthly preventative flea treatment, but the cat has very limited access to our bedroom, and it's last dose was weeks ago. We've also been giving it that flea treatment for years. If it were environmental, I would assume the sick OBT's sibling would have been affected similarly, but it is fine. All 15 spiders were kept in close proximity, so shouldn't an environmental cause be affecting all of them, or at least all of the spiderlings first? I hope my P. metallica is just being weird, because I really wanted to find her a mate after her next molt.

 

[mack1855]

Probably correct...however,if you have been on AB since 2011,you would be acutely aware of sprays,fogging and the
risks envolved with regards to T,s concerning environmental hazards.I would think you would be aware of,and
take precautions against such things.If you live in your own home/house,then spraying,or otherwise using
pest control should send a red flag up.Thats why I mentioned feeders.
Ok just saw your post,does not mean the store didn't change suppliers for the feeders.The apartment living is an issue for sure.

 

[ErinM31]

The symptoms sound like they could be caused by pesticides, although it does not seem likely if not used in your apartment... I’m not familiar with how these flea treatments work, but I assume they must wind up in the fur eventually? Could it be setting up enclosures or handling feeders after handling your cat and inadvertently transferring some anti-flea treatment? That is probably a stretch...

What sort of water do you give your T’s?

I don’t think we know much about ailments which can affect T’s... It case it is something transmissible, it might be prudent to move the effected T’s away from the others and definitely don’t take care of the healthy T’s right after caring for the sick ones.

That is all that I can think of. I really hope your T’s pull through and that you’re able to figure out what’s going on!

 

[Vanessa]

Probably correct...however,if you have been on AB since 2011,you would be acutely aware of sprays,fogging and the
risks envolved with regards to T,s concerning environmental hazards.I would think you would be aware of,and
take precautions against such things.If you live in your own home/house,then spraying,or otherwise using
pest control should send a red flag up.Thats why I mentioned feeders.
Ok just saw your post,does not mean the store didn't change suppliers for the feeders.The apartment living is an issue for sure.

I actually don't need to be on Arachnoboards to be acutely aware of how chemicals affect arachnids. I've had tarantulas for 20 years and other spiders/insects even longer. I have a very good understanding of how pesticides and insecticides work against arachnids - Arachnoboards is not the only source of that information, you know.
A bad batch of feeders has been the go to excuse for deaths caused by everything else under the sun for a very long time - unless someone is feeding wild caught feeders, that is not going to be the cause.

Tarantulas don't carry communicable diseases like many other animals do. Yes, you do run the risk of introducing parasites into your collection - mites, nematodes, maybe even parasitic fungi like Cordyceps - but they do not carry bacterial or viral 'diseases' that can be spread to other tarantulas.

 

[Nepenthe56]

The symptoms sound like they could be caused by pesticides, although it does not seem likely if not used in your apartment... I’m not familiar with how these flea treatments work, but I assume they must wind up in the fur eventually? Could it be setting up enclosures or handling feeders after handling your cat and inadvertently transferring some anti-flea treatment? That is probably a stretch...

What sort of water do you give your T’s?

I don’t think we know much about ailments which can affect T’s... It case it is something transmissible, it might be prudent to move the effected T’s away from the others and definitely don’t take care of the healthy T’s right after caring for the sick ones.

That is all that I can think of. I really hope your T’s pull through and that you’re able to figure out what’s going on!

I have quarantined all the affected spiders. I give them tap water that has been allowed to sit and dechlorinate for 24 hours. The feeders are from a local pet store. They keep around 20 tarantulas for sale and feed them the same feeders, so I would think they'd be having issues as well, but I was in there today and they all look fine. I suppose it's possible that flea medication could transfer from my hands to the feeders, so as a precaution I will be washing my hands thoroughly before feeding my inverts to eliminate that variable.

 

[ErinM31]

I actually don't need to be on Arachnoboards to be acutely aware of how chemicals affect arachnids. I've had tarantulas for 20 years and other spiders/insects even longer. I have a very good understanding of how pesticides and insecticides work against arachnids - Arachnoboards is not the only source of that information, you know.
A bad batch of feeders has been the go to excuse for deaths caused by everything else under the sun for a very long time - unless someone is feeding wild caught feeders, that is not going to be the cause.

Tarantulas don't carry communicable diseases like many other animals do. Yes, you do run the risk of introducing parasites into your collection - mites, nematodes, maybe even parasitic fungi like Cordyceps - but they do not carry bacterial or viral 'diseases' that can be spread to other tarantulas.

With all due respect, I do not believe it can be true that tarantulas don’t carry communicable diseases. To my knowledge, every organism can be afflicted by a varying array of pathogens. Viruses have evolved to infect everything, including bacteriophages to infect bacteria, a vastly different cell type. I’m not saying that’s what’s going on here and, indeed, most pathogens require direct contact to be transmitted.

 

[Darth Molt]

I have quarantined all the affected spiders. I give them tap water that has been allowed to sit and dechlorinate for 24 hours. The feeders are from a local pet store. They keep around 20 tarantulas for sale and feed them the same feeders, so I would think they'd be having issues as well, but I was in there today and they all look fine. I suppose it's possible that flea medication could transfer from my hands to the feeders, so as a precaution I will be washing my hands thoroughly before feeding my inverts to eliminate that variable.

cat dandruff/hair travels everywhere but I’m pretty sure your not the only cat owner who has T’s keep us updated on how your Ts are doing. Hope everything goes well

 

[ErinM31]

cat dandruff/hair travels everywhere but I’m pretty sure your not the only cat owner who has T’s keep us updated on how your Ts are doing. Hope everything goes well

True... I was trying to think of anything remotely possible but maybe that really isn’t. I do have two kitties (no flea treatment though) and everywhere is blessed with their fur to be certain!

Is the water even a remote possibility? If it’s well water and some chemical got in... I once lived in a town where the tap water reeked of chlorine, was too hard to rinse away soap effectively and on top of that, we got a notice that some radioactive element was above whatever limit in the water...

I don’t wish to make you paranoid about water or petting your cat! Only trying to think of every variable... Maybe something mundane like too low moisture causing molting problems? I am grasping at straws...

 

[Vanessa]

With all due respect, I do not believe it can be true that tarantulas don’t carry communicable diseases.

Okay, so what ones do they carry?

 

[Darth Molt]

True... I was trying to think of anything remotely possible but maybe that really isn’t. I do have two kitties (no flea treatment though) and everywhere is blessed with their fur to be certain!

Is the water even a remote possibility? If it’s well water and some chemical got in... I once lived in a town where the tap water reeked of chlorine, was too hard to rinse away soap effectively and on top of that, we got a notice that some radioactive element was above whatever limit in the water...

I don’t wish to make you paranoid about water or petting your cat! Only trying to think of every variable... Maybe something mundane like too low moisture causing molting problems? I am grasping at straws...

It could be tap water as there’s god knows what in it. I only use the best for my Ts good old purified bottled water. I never thought of it but he did say he used tap water which I know a lot be T owners don’t do. P.s I’m not a expert

 

[Darth Molt]

It could be tap water as there’s god knows what in it. I only use the best for my Ts good old purified bottled water. I never thought of it but he did say he used tap water which I know a lot be T owners don’t do. P.s I’m not a expert

But I guess his other Ts are doing fine so it’s probably not the tap water? Who knows..

 

[ErinM31]

Okay, so what ones do they carry?

Epidemiology is not my field, but as far as I can see, limited research has been done in spiders and even less in tarantulas. Lorenzini et al. Developmental & Comparative Immunology 2005 looks at the genes expressed in Acanthoscurria gomesiana hemocytes, which include immunity-related genes. Not an answer to your question, I know, but I don’t know that anyone has one, certainly not a complete answer, and I hope more research will be done in this field.

 

[Vanessa]

I would be glad to be mistaken, but I do not believe that anyone has epidemiology for populations not directly impacting humans (i.e., human diseases of course, but also agriculture, etc.).
EDIT: There have been more studies than I thought, let’s see if I can find anything... Immunology/epidemiology is not my field but is certainly fascinating...

I asked a straight up, legitimate question. I will be attending an expo on Sunday, where I am picking up some tarantulas that I have on order. I have a healthy, thriving collection at home that I want to ensure that I am protecting.

What bacteria or virus do I have to quarantine them for?
What is the incubation period before I see symptoms that the new tarantulas have the disease?
What symptoms am I looking for in the new tarantulas?
Is it an airborne disease or is it spread by contact only? Do I need to quarantine in a facility that does not allow air exchange? Do I have to wear protective clothing?
What level of sterilization protocol do I need to use after interaction?

Would that information not be everywhere - just like it is for every single animal out there who can potentially be carrying diseases that can kill other animals in people's homes? Would we not be hearing more about it, considering the hundreds of expos that are held around the world every year?
If they can carry diseases like that, then we need to start communicating that to the hobby asap, before hundreds of tarantulas die.

 

[ErinM31]

I asked a straight up, legitimate question. I will be attending an expo on Sunday, where I am picking up some tarantulas that I have on order. I have a healthy, thriving collection at home that I want to ensure that I am protecting.

What bacteria or virus do I have to quarantine them for?
What is the incubation period before I see symptoms that the new tarantulas have the disease?
What symptoms am I looking for in the new tarantulas?
Is it an airborne disease or is it spread by contact only? Do I need to quarantine in a facility that does not allow air exchange? Do I have to wear protective clothing?
What level of sterilization protocol do I need to use after interaction?

Would that information not be everywhere - just like it is for every single animal out there who can potentially be carrying diseases that can kill other animals in people's homes? Would we not be hearing more about it, considering the hundreds of expos that are held around the world every year?
If they can carry diseases like that, then we need to start communicating that to the hobby asap, before hundreds of tarantulas die.

It is absolutely a legitimate question and I wish that I did have answers for you! The point is that we do not know what diseases may affect tarantulas!
The point is that it has not been studied but that there are bacteria and viruses that can infect and have infected (sometimes leaving genetic evidence) absolutely every other time of organism that has been looked at. It is impossible that tarantulas would not have their own particular pathogens. Most/all would NOT be able to infect you nor other pets because most pathogens that are not pure opportunists are specialized. Most should not be virulent enough to kill the tarantula as this would ultimately be selected against.

Please do not misunderstand what I am saying; I do not know what diseases may affect tarantulas, what the symptoms would be, how they are transmitted etc. What precautions you may wish to take against the unknown such as a quarantine period or sanitizing enclosures or accessories between uses is up to you.