CYST Severity??

[Shell]

this is the only transaction I have been angry about everything else has been fine....

The thing is, you don't really have a right to be angry. This is a risk you take when you purchase ANY live animal, be it a spider or a dog. It is NOT the sellers fault, and it sounds like he is being more than fair and reasonable in dealing with this issue.

Things like this can come up suddenly, we don't know what causes them. It's understandable to be disappointed, but anger over this? You buy live animals you will always be taking a small gamble, no matter how reputable a person you're dealing with.

 

[billopelma]

...yet another addition to my growing list of people not to sell to...





Bill

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

...yet another addition to my growing list of people not to sell to...





Bill

Thats great so your blaiming me for getting a T with a cyst?>??
odds are its not my fault, or the sellers fault... He took pics of it before he sent it.. the cyst wasnt there til the T arrived

Cleary the USPS guys were playing catch with it :: Dosnt matter the T is obviously the loser in this situation....poor T stirmi

 

[Transient]

Thats great so your blaiming me for getting a T with a cyst?>??
odds are its not my fault, or the sellers fault... He took pics of it before he sent it.. the cyst wasnt there til the T arrived

Cleary the USPS guys were playing catch with it :: Dosnt matter the T is obviously the loser in this situation....poor T stirmi

I think you indirectly answered your own question.

 

[19tarantula91]

Thats great so your blaiming me for getting a T with a cyst?>??
odds are its not my fault, or the sellers fault... He took pics of it before he sent it.. the cyst wasnt there til the T arrived

Cleary the USPS guys were playing catch with it :: Dosnt matter the T is obviously the loser in this situation....poor T stirmi

Wow? now it's the usps guys fault? Dude... Own up.

 

[Hornets inverts]

Thats great so your blaiming me for getting a T with a cyst?>??
odds are its not my fault, or the sellers fault... He took pics of it before he sent it.. the cyst wasnt there til the T arrived

Cleary the USPS guys were playing catch with it :: Dosnt matter the T is obviously the loser in this situation....poor T stirmi

Bill isnt blaming you for the cyst, no one is, but you constantly bringing up the sellers name, saying he sent you a t with a cyst, that your angry with the transaction, your blaming the seller for doing nothing wrong. No one is going to want to sell to you if they know what your like in situations like this.

As everyone else has said, there is no indication your t is in premoult, why the need to "test" it? Not exactly an accurate test as t's can continue feeding right up untill they moult, all through the premoult stage.

You really need to just stop posting, stop showing the world what an idiot you are. I woud suggest doing some real research before you post any more idiotic questions, but you have made it quite obvious you lack the capacity to learn or take good advice from anyone here. Why do you even bother posting then? It doesnt do you or your t's any good.

 

[venom81]

i think its my fault for reading the thread...so there you dont have to blame anybody else, i was just trying to learn if draining the cyst with a syringe would work or are you planning on letting it grow till the t dies.But before deciding to go either way you should check if theres other options,these is were you should take peoples advice here there trying to help, but you got to help them help you.

 

[Hobo]

There's no one to blame, so stop trying.
Nobody even knows specifically how these problems arise.

 

[Shell]

Nobody even knows specifically how these problems arise.

I have tried telling him this numerous times (he sent me a PM about this all too,) and quite honestly, it's like talking to the wall....you can repeat yourself over and over but he just only takes what he wants to take from what you said, even if it's completely wrong.

Ultum, it's not the fault of the post office, don't you get it? It's nobodies fault! This is a live animal, and these "growths" do tend to be somewhat common with this Genus. As I've already told you, nobody can say why this happened or what caused it, but this is a risk you take when you purchase a live animal.

I don't want to be mean, but I am getting seriously sick of your crap. Stop posting, start reading....Ugh I sound like a broken record.

 

[Comatose]

That spider didnt make trough following molt is much is I know, I think there is thread here on AB about it.


I had my share of experience of dealing with Theraposa abdominal protrusions.
I had one that I didn't think will make trough the upcoming molt. I took pictures and decide to experiment with that specimen, I had nothing to loose.
Kept her underfed (I don't believe in overfeeding is could be healthy for them), in semi dry and very well ventilated inclosure (to avoid any possible future fungal problems) with water-dish available and always full.

Treated protrusion twice a month with Iodine (purpose: disinfectant and anti fungal)
Specimen molted with no problems, protrusion shrunk and barely visible. I keep an eye on this one till next molt. I Am expecting she will molt it completely out.
I will post pictures is soon I will be able to.

This is some awesome information Anastasia... please keep us all up to date on the outcome. Very interesting and well thought out treatment method.

...yet another addition to my growing list of people not to sell to...





Bill

I have a simple solution to this issue... :tongue:

 

[BrettG]

Interesting...Possibly fungal???

 

[Comatose]

I spoke with Rob about Zilla; it appears at least in his case it was a cyst; fluid formed in a bubble between the current molt and a new one. It seems to be what we're dealing with here, and it seems like that's what Anastasia is working with now. I'm very eager to see what the outcome is; this could be a great step in the right direction.

 

[ZergFront]

OOOOH! I was about to reply with a quote to your other one on where he said that.

I really need to get to threads on time.

I'd give an exotic vet a shot. They have access to Co2 and other equipment that may help. Not sure how much it would help since I never had giant ones and this is one of the reasons why..

Bingo!
As of ~2006, there was no documentation of cancers in tarantulas, but that doesn't mean it doesn't occur. "(Frye 1992)...illustration of a possible neoplasm may be a melanization reaction to an injury or infection." (Invertebrate Medicine, Gregory Lewbart; Chapter 10 'Spiders', Romain Pizzi; pg 160)


There are veterinarians out there who practice spider medicine, limited as it is due to the nature of the patients. They do tend to be few and far between, and the majority seem to be in Europe. Last I communicated with him, Dr. Romain Pizzi, of the Royal Zoological Society, was working on updating his spider chapter for the new edition of Invertebrate Medicine. If that tome has been published, it may yield some info.

When sending something for pathology, the pathologist needs to be well-versed in what they are looking at or for. The average veterinary pathologist would be generally clueless, though they could identify bacteria, fungi, etc.

Fudgicles! I looked for that book on Amazon just now. Over $120! :*-(

 

[Earth Tiger]

Given these expensive rare T species like Theraphosa and P. metallica are frequently inbred, I guess genetic reasons are one of the plausible causes, apart from the disease routes you folks are exploring. One well known example demonstrating the adverse effects of inbreeding in the pet trade are the poor australian budgies. They have a much shorter life expectancy than their wild cousins because they are prone to cancers due to inbreeding.

Ultum, no one knows the underlying reasons for these cysts and no one and nothing are to be blamed yet. You are angry and want to blame someone because you think your Ts are some heroes and you think heroes can't have problems. If they have problems someone must be responsible. Try to accept that Ts are just inverts and your T can have problems itself. In fact superheroes like spiderman and mr incredible have their problems too. Some people are born with inherited diseases, and perhaps your T. stirmi has inherited defects too. So you can't even blame any fungus or bacteria in that case. You need to bare in mind that natural selection works no more in the pet trade, especially for expensive species like yours. In the wild only a few T. stirmi slings from an egg sac can make their way to adulthood, but in pet trade all T. stirmi slings will likely get 10" big, and they are inbred to get more offsprings. If you really want to blame something perhaps it is the hobby that is at faults. Will you quit this hobby? Certainly not, so please don't blame anyone or anything anymore. If all T. stirmi had been WC they would have become extinct in the wild. Nothing in this world is perfect. Successful people like Donald Trump don't complain here and there.

 

[Formerphobe]

I'd give an exotic vet a shot. They have access to Co2 and other equipment that may help.

I don't know any who use CO2, but Isofluorane (and I believe Sevofluorane, as well) has been successfully used as an anesthetic agent in tarantulas. And they do have a wealth of other miniscule equipment for tiny critters.

Fudgicles! I looked for that book on Amazon just now. Over $120! :*-(

I caught a real deal on it a couple of years ago when I was still eligible for a student discount on top of the sale. It's the old edition though...

They have a much shorter life expectancy than their wild cousins because they are prone to cancers due to inbreeding.

In addition to propagating "cancer genes" by inbreeding, captive bred and kept specimens of all species experience increased cancer rates due to the chemicals and indoor pollution they're exposed to in captivity.

In the wild only a few T. stirmi slings from an egg sac can make their way to adulthood

+1

 

[jayefbe]

Given these expensive rare T species like Theraphosa and P. metallica are frequently inbred, I guess genetic reasons are one of the plausible causes, apart from the disease routes you folks are exploring. One well known example demonstrating the adverse effects of inbreeding in the pet trade are the poor australian budgies. They have a much shorter life expectancy than their wild cousins because they are prone to cancers due to inbreeding.

As far as I can tell, every adult Theraphosa stirmi sold in the US has been wild-caught. In which case, they would be the least likely species to have suffered from inbreeding. I don't know if inbreeding does have negative effects in some tarantulas, but after 9+ generations of inbreeding, Garrick's OBTs are still going strong. That's a sizable enough sample size and enough generations to conclude that at least in Pterinochilus murinus there is very likely no significant inbreeding depression.

 

[Earth Tiger]

In addition to propagating "cancer genes" by inbreeding, captive bred and kept specimens of all species experience increased cancer rates due to the chemicals and indoor pollution they're exposed to in captivity.

Despite the pollution problems, most domesticated pets actually enjoy longer lifespans than their wild cousins which easily die from accidents, predation, diseases and starvation. Pets don't suffer from these and that's why Macaws can live up to 60-80 years in captivity but their lifespan reduces at least by half in the wild. Tarantulas are expected to live longer in captivity too, unless its owner feeds them pesticides polluted roaches or takes it for a bath.

As far as I can tell, every adult Theraphosa stirmi sold in the US has been wild-caught. In which case, they would be the least likely species to have suffered from inbreeding. I don't know if inbreeding does have negative effects in some tarantulas, but after 9+ generations of inbreeding, Garrick's OBTs are still going strong. That's a sizable enough sample size and enough generations to conclude that at least in Pterinochilus murinus there is very likely no significant inbreeding depression.

I see. I am not an expert of T. stirmi and I haven't got one yet, so lets see if any T. stirmi expert will shed light on its origin. Last time when I talked to Dr Shuker many years ago, he mentioned that every single one of millions of pet golden hamsters around the world before 1971 had descended from only 4 individuals, and millions of these hamsters all appeared normal without any sign of inbreeding problems. Since 1971 twelve more WC individuals were added to the gene pool.

So sometimes it is a matter of luck, like the golden hamster case the few WC OBTs used for CB probably did not carry any recessive disease linked gene, and so no inbreeding depression is seen. But that's not the case for the poor pet budgies.

 

[ijmccollum]

Finally, this thread is taking a sane direction! Thank you Sun Tiger.

Is this condition specific to T. stirmi or does it present in other Theraphosa, or even other larger T's?

Before anyone answers, maybe this thread should be abandoned and another started that specifically addresses the lumps and bumps that occur in spiders. I nominate Anastasia since she is already actively looking at this.

 

[Jon3800]

Finally, this thread is taking a sane direction! Thank you Sun Tiger.

Is this condition specific to T. stirmi or does it present in other Theraphosa, or even other larger T's?

Before anyone answers, maybe this thread should be abandoned and another started that specifically addresses the lumps and bumps that occur in spiders. I nominate Anastasia since she is already actively looking at this.

I could very well present in others members. We don't see much T.blondi and apophysis these days...they're rare to get ahold of one. I have a mature pair of T.stirmi and they don't have cysts yet.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

yeah im sorry I played the Blame game.. clearly its no ones fault & T stirmis are known for cysts apearing for no reason
Ill try to take more advice & listen to people more often..Feeding the T was a Bad idea
One thing is certain.. We need to eventualy figure out the cause & a Treatment for T stirmi's it sucks having a T that you know is going to die...
clearly cysts are not as Fatal as DKS... and we have some shot at saving Ts with proper..treatment
Judging from what Anastasia has accomplished-- in the future maybe we can Cure.. or save more Ts with cysts:biggrin: