B. baumgarteni

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

This is for Trav! Here are three different sizes out of the 30 baumgarteni that I have that are the same bloodline. First photo is 4" inch immature male, second photo of a 3.25" inch female and third photo is a 3" inch immature male.


Jose

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

The first and second photo is of the 6" inch immature male baumgarteni, third and fourth photo is a 5.25" inch female baumgarteni. This two individuals are not the same bloodlines out of the 30 other ones that I have. Also this male and female are not related.


Jose

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Here are the rest of the photos. First photo 6" inch immature male, second photo 5.25" inch female, third, fourth and fifth photo is of my 6.25" inch fully mature female. Like I stated before don't expect your younger baumgarteni to look like my fully mature 6.25" inch female. This is one of the spiders that goes thru stages, and changes visually from young juvenile to adulthood. So looking for that lightning bolt pattern you will not see it clearly unless you have a flashlight or wait until it molts fully of maturity size that it is clearly visually without using special equipment to see it.


Jose

 

[Trav]

I found out what everyone thinks they have recently acquired as younger Baumgarteni's (Including myself), To be all hybrids of a female Boehmei crossed with a male Baumgarteni by a individual in Mexico. This individual then exported them to the pet trade across north america and labeled them as Boehmei. As these spiders grew they had some of the Baumgarteni markings in which people started miss labeling them as real Baumgarteni's without the any background info on them...Of course since real Baumgarteni's are worth so much more! I am seeing them popping up in pet stores all over north america labeled as Mexican Orange Beauty tarantula. What a shame that this is simply messing up the species even further in the hobby....

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

I found out what everyone thinks they have recently acquired as younger Baumgarteni's (Including myself), To be all hybrids of a female Boehmei crossed with a male Baumgarteni by a individual in Mexico. This individual then exported them to the pet trade across north america and labeled them as Boehmei. As these spiders grew they had some of the Baumgarteni markings in which people started miss labeling them as real Baumgarteni's without the any background info on them...Of course since real Baumgarteni's are worth so much more! I am seeing them popping up in pet stores all over north america labeled as Mexican Orange Beauty tarantula. What a shame that this is simply messing up the species even further in the hobby....

To all the recent acquire B. baumgarteni to be all hybrids that's a big claim you are making. My question to you is who is the source? Who is this individual that suppose to have bred hybrids? How do you know this individual from Mexico? Did he himself gave you this information? Why label them as B. boehmei and not B. baumgarteni? Either way both are CITES so I don't understand the meaning of selling them as B. boehmei only! I don't agree with your claim. I asked you before to back up your claim that you are making. This is just hear say, there is no proof to your claim.
I provided physical proof of this species that are baumgarteni, now with that been said I'm waiting one more molt for one of my younger B. baumgarteni that Hobo wants me to post of the spermathecae of. Once I have taken the photo of the spermathecae it will show its identity by molt and there might still be some folks that may or may not have doubts anymore. In my opinion is a shame of you making this claim ruining this species further in the hobby......


Jose

 

[viper69]

Who is this individual Trav? Jose makes valid questions- any answers would be great

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Even though someone decides to claim that he or she was the one to have bred hybrids why sell the babies as boehmei? As I stated before both species are CITES. We need proof of the mother and father breeding, laying the eggs and hatching the babies. On what date did his or hers transaction take place? Show receipt of the babies been sold? And to whom this individual sold them too? The B. baumgarteni is still a high controversial species to begin with. This are valid questions that now you need to answer too, coming out here stating these are hybrids without proof is ridiculous! Anyone can make a claim, but you need to back it up.......... When I first started this post I made the claim of my babies being B. baumgarteni and I believe I showed enough proof to back it up!



Jose

 

[metallica]

What Trav writes is correct. It was already known for years he sold these hybrids in Mexico. Only last year we learned they were also sold to the US and Canada. So unless you know the history of your B. baumgarteni in the US/ Canada, I would not touch them with a 10 foot pole. Do we know the name of the breeder? yes. I have even been in his house and seen his breeding facilities. But I think it does not bring anything extra if I give you his name.

---------- Post added 02-16-2014 at 05:41 PM ----------

I provided physical proof of this species that are baumgarteni, now with that been said I'm waiting one more molt for one of my younger B. baumgarteni that Hobo wants me to post of the spermathecae of. Once I have taken the photo of the spermathecae it will show its identity by molt and there might still be some folks that may or may not have doubts anymore. In my opinion is a shame of you making this claim ruining this species further in the hobby......


Jose

What will you use to compare the spermathecae to? Only the male is described.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

What Trav writes is correct. It was already known for years he sold these hybrids in Mexico. Only last year we learned they were also sold to the US and Canada. So unless you know the history of your B. baumgarteni in the US/ Canada, I would not touch them with a 10 foot pole. Do we know the name of the breeder? yes. I have even been in his house and seen his breeding facilities. But I think it does not bring anything extra if I give you his name.

---------- Post added 02-16-2014 at 05:41 PM ----------



What will you use to compare the spermathecae to? Only the male is described.

Again if what you say is true show me photos, name the person, exact date when they were born and show me paper work of the transaction who he sold them too. It's rediculous for you also backing Trav up with his claim. You said you have been to his house you know this person might as well go all the way so I can sue him personally for selling none legit specimens that you claim they are. This person can not ever be dealt with again. So it does matter for you to give a name, so we can take proper action to this individual. State the facts and back it up!
The spermathecae of the B.baumgarteni is different than the B. boehmei this what helps differentiate the two different species I have 30 of this species males and females and every single one are B. baumgarteni. None look hybrid to me at all! I have posted some photos before you and others saw them too!


Jose

---------- Post added 02-16-2014 at 10:28 AM ----------

Here is a perfect example of not stating facts. Satellite Rob claimed he hatched out B. baumgarteni, he never posted photos he claimed he sold every single one of them to a wholesaler and kept 25 of them for himself. To me it was all hear say. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...!&highlight=Satellite+brachypelma+baumgarteni As of today no one that I know has ever hatched out babies of this species in the US. People have tried breeding them but with no success.


Jose

 

[metallica]

So it does matter for you to give a name, so we can take proper action to this individual. State the facts and back it up!
Jose

Jose

Isn't it up to the importers to take action to this individual? They have bought the spiders from him. All you can do is return your spiders to the petshop you got them from and claim they are not B. boehmei (what they were being sold as). So no, I see no pint in naming the seller..

 

[Trav]

The spermathecae of the B.baumgarteni is different than the B. boehmei this what helps differentiate the two different species I have 30 of this species males and females and every single one are B. baumgarteni. None look hybrid to me at all! I have posted some photos before you and others saw them too!

I would like to see this spermathacae difference your talking about?....Wheres all your Brachy sp. photos that were here before Jose?
Someones name is not going to differentiate what has already been done. I have heard from numerous very trustworthy hobbyist about this exact fact and all was same and true. People are going to continue to mislabel these regardless of the truth because of misinformation and a bit of greed....

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Isn't it up to the importers to take action to this individual? They have bought the spiders from him. All you can do is return your spiders to the petshop you got them from and claim they are not B. boehmei (what they were being sold as). So no, I see no pint in naming the seller..

So what is your point to your claim? You can not provide proof. You are ignoring my request show me facts.


Jose

 

[JoeRossi]

Interesting perspective metallica.....However, I have found that all hobbyist who wish to have pure bred tarantulas and not muddled Frankensteins in the hobby should want to disclose the truth in every aspect. If "importers" wont take action yet you feel compelled to state your opinions and disagree with cross breeding then by not addressing the issue to seek complete truth and justice then you only aid in the confusion.

1. Finding out exactly where they came from in the U.S.....

2. Finding out exactly who the individual is and who they were sold to....

can help to clarify who has what a bit better

Either all "B.baumgarteni" in the hobby will lead to one source and hobbyist can choose to deal accordingly or there will be more than one direct source and all can go from there.

I will also look forward to seeing the difference in the two female specimens spermathacae, but with out clear information on the above questions still there will be doubt. I have stated before "what does a hybred spermathacae look like (like the boehmi,the baumgarteni, or a mutated mix)"?

Just a thought.....

 

[metallica]

Either all "B.baumgarteni" in the hobby will lead to one source and hobbyist can choose to deal accordingly or there will be more than one direct source and all can go from there.

Just a thought.....

one source of B. baumgarteni would be me. in 2004 I bred and exported 100 into the US. Bred as B. baumgarteni and sold as B. baumgarteni.

what sounds more logical:
1) pet stores sell pure B. baumgarteni without anyone knowing this.
2) pet stores sell hybrids they got in as B. boehmei

my money is on 2.

 

[JoeRossi]

"one source of B. baumgarteni would be me. in 2004 I bred and exported 100 into the US. Bred as B. baumgarteni and sold as B. baumgarteni."

Then you would know who your B. baumgarteni went directly too and they would be larger then the 1-4" Tarantulas in the 10 years it has been. We know one source "you" still waiting to hear the other source you know and others.

"what sounds more logical:
1) pet stores sell pure B. baumgarteni without anyone knowing this.
2) pet stores sell hybrids they got in as B. boehmei"

3)pet stores sell spiders they received labeled as boehmi, but the wild caught parents were actually baumgarteni or the captive born offspring were baumgarteni and the individual who they received them from did not or could not define them as baumgarteni...I frequently see collectors have no idea what they have and just stick a label on them...Avicularia sp What...anyone LOL

There are other scenarios that could play out...so lets get all the FACTS

I don't put my money anywhere until all the facts are clearly disclosed Helps save my money

 

[metallica]

ha ha happy guessing!

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

ha ha happy guessing!

Now you think is funny! I find your comments useless you make remarks without any evidence to back up your claim.



Jose

 

[Trav]

Jose I recall you have sold young what you have told me before were all purchased as Boehmei? Now become and sold as Baumgarteni based on some similar appearances....Those are some reallly nice Orange Beauty spiders you got there...

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Jose I recall you have sold young what you have told me before were all purchased as Boehmei? Now become and sold as Baumgarteni based on some similar appearances....Those are some reallly nice Orange Beauty spiders you got there...

Yes they were sold as B. boehmei and now you are going to tell me that this is are actually B. boehmei? I provided legit evidence that this are not boehmei and that they are B. baumgarteni, you and Metallica are coming on the boards stating that they are hybrids without any evidence at all. I provide my evidence please provide yours.

 

[metallica]

you and Metallica are coming on the boards stating that they are hybrids without any evidence at all.

Nope. We state they CAN well be boehmei/ baumgarteni hybrids.