Yet another 17ft Burmese Python found in Fl

Najakeeper

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I guess in Florida, first we have to eradicate the gun carrying Homo arkansasensis, then we can relocate the pythons.
 

lizardminion

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Who cares about the Everglades anymore? That place is just a fauna-dumpster being consumed by roads and human habitation. It'll be an urban, polluted cesspool eventually.
Its also the source of national controversy to make exotic pet keepers felons. You know, another excuse in the book of legislation to forbid you of your freedoms. (Did you know they have invasive TARANTULAS? Omg we have to ban those for the sake of the s#%!-hole - err, I meant environment! I'm sure nobody here would want to keep tarantulas anyway, amirite? Pfft, just a bunch of crazy people!)
 

bugmankeith

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They are here to stay so might as well get used to it! Florida is the modern Jurassic Park!
 

Shrike

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Who cares about the Everglades anymore? That place is just a fauna-dumpster being consumed by roads and human habitation. It'll be an urban, polluted cesspool eventually.
Its also the source of national controversy to make exotic pet keepers felons. You know, another excuse in the book of legislation to forbid you of your freedoms. (Did you know they have invasive TARANTULAS? Omg we have to ban those for the sake of the s#%!-hole - err, I meant environment! I'm sure nobody here would want to keep tarantulas anyway, amirite? Pfft, just a bunch of crazy people!)
I care about the Everglades and I'm sure plenty of others do as well. Some of the fauna in that "dumpster" actually belongs there. You made some broad observations about roads and human habitations and predicted the Everglades will become an urban, polluted cesspool. Can you be a bit more specific as to what geographic area you're referring to? 1.5 million acres of the Everglades is set aside as a national park.
 

BobGrill

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We've also had African Rock Pythons here as well. It's getting pretty ridiculous yeah.
 

pitbulllady

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Here is an excellent editorial written by one of the leading Burmese Python researchers in FL, Dr. Frank Mazzotti, after another article, which is widely referenced in the more-recent "Killer-Pythons-Destroying-the-Environment" stories: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-mazzotti/pythons-everglades-study_b_1257911.html . Dr. Mazzotti does make it clear that there are MANY, many factors involved in the decline of SOME wildlife species in the 'Glades, and that to pinpoint the Burms as the main culprits is a premature and sensationalistic conclusion. The Burms are not the only invasive species there, nor are they the most prevalent. Feral hogs, which DO actually alter the terrain and even the courses of waterways, and which also eat ANYTHING, along with destroying much plant life through their constant rooting, are rampant in south FL and have been there since the 1500's. Feral cats, which FL's own Fish and Wildlife have shown to be the main predators of several Endangered rodents, are also very common. Coyotes, a highly successful predator, have made all of Florida their home, and every area into which this canid has expanded its range has felt a very strong impact. They out-compete other predators, and like the hogs, will eat pretty much anything. The Everglades have indeed suffered from extensive changes to the hydrology of the entire area, some of which is man-made(diverting water flow to protect sugar cane crops and urban/developed areas) and some of which is natural, such as a decades-long drought that has plagued southern Florida, and whenever you disrupt the water system of so large a region, for so long, it is going to have a profound impact on every single aspect of the environment. Even though the Everglades National Park is a vast expanse of protected wilderness, the waterways that "feed" it are not, once they leave the boundries of the park itself, and we all know that the population of south Florida has increased at an astounding rate over the past 20-30 years and continues to expand. There is no way that such a tremendous influx of humanity into a region is not going to have an absolutely profound effect on the natural habitats, no matter how well protected they are. The entire Everglades system was horribly damaged before there was a National Park, before the pythons, before the "snow birds" decided to make Florida their permanent residence, because agriculture and development were seen as more important. Now, the politicians want to be heroes and make a "green" name for themselves by restoring the Everglades to its former glory, a task that means undoing decades of draining and diverting water, filling in wetlands, logging and clear-cutting and paving. It's a proverbial Gordian Knot of an undertaking, quite honestly, and the pythons are very convenient scapegoats for the politicians to point at and say, "well, we'd be successful if it weren't for THOSE THINGS". It's much easier than say, blaming the big sugar cane industry or the tourist industry or the seniors from New England who happen to want more golf courses, or even the feral hogs and cats, which are still fellow mammals that generate far more sympathy from most humans than a reptile.

pitbulllady
 

BobGrill

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Here is an excellent editorial written by one of the leading Burmese Python researchers in FL, Dr. Frank Mazzotti, after another article, which is widely referenced in the more-recent "Killer-Pythons-Destroying-the-Environment" stories: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-mazzotti/pythons-everglades-study_b_1257911.html . Dr. Mazzotti does make it clear that there are MANY, many factors involved in the decline of SOME wildlife species in the 'Glades, and that to pinpoint the Burms as the main culprits is a premature and sensationalistic conclusion. The Burms are not the only invasive species there, nor are they the most prevalent. Feral hogs, which DO actually alter the terrain and even the courses of waterways, and which also eat ANYTHING, along with destroying much plant life through their constant rooting, are rampant in south FL and have been there since the 1500's. Feral cats, which FL's own Fish and Wildlife have shown to be the main predators of several Endangered rodents, are also very common. Coyotes, a highly successful predator, have made all of Florida their home, and every area into which this canid has expanded its range has felt a very strong impact. They out-compete other predators, and like the hogs, will eat pretty much anything. The Everglades have indeed suffered from extensive changes to the hydrology of the entire area, some of which is man-made(diverting water flow to protect sugar cane crops and urban/developed areas) and some of which is natural, such as a decades-long drought that has plagued southern Florida, and whenever you disrupt the water system of so large a region, for so long, it is going to have a profound impact on every single aspect of the environment. Even though the Everglades National Park is a vast expanse of protected wilderness, the waterways that "feed" it are not, once they leave the boundries of the park itself, and we all know that the population of south Florida has increased at an astounding rate over the past 20-30 years and continues to expand. There is no way that such a tremendous influx of humanity into a region is not going to have an absolutely profound effect on the natural habitats, no matter how well protected they are. The entire Everglades system was horribly damaged before there was a National Park, before the pythons, before the "snow birds" decided to make Florida their permanent residence, because agriculture and development were seen as more important. Now, the politicians want to be heroes and make a "green" name for themselves by restoring the Everglades to its former glory, a task that means undoing decades of draining and diverting water, filling in wetlands, logging and clear-cutting and paving. It's a proverbial Gordian Knot of an undertaking, quite honestly, and the pythons are very convenient scapegoats for the politicians to point at and say, "well, we'd be successful if it weren't for THOSE THINGS". It's much easier than say, blaming the big sugar cane industry or the tourist industry or the seniors from New England who happen to want more golf courses, or even the feral hogs and cats, which are still fellow mammals that generate far more sympathy from most humans than a reptile.

pitbulllady
Makes sense, but really this is nothing new. It's always going to be much easier for most people to blame something scaly or slimy than something cute and furry.
 

Shrike

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Pitbulllady: excellent points. I wish more people in this country understood some of the concepts you raised. I didn't meant to imply that the Everglades is somehow pristine because a large portion of it is a national park, only that it seems unlikely that the area will be consumed by roads and human habitation and become some kind of urban jungle. I also think that promoting a "who cares about the Everglades" attitude is dangerous. The Everglades is a microcosm of what we see occurring on a global scale, and I believe the need to somehow stem or reverse this tide (to the extent possible) to be more important than my hobby. Surely there's something in this damaged yet still beautiful ecosystem worth protecting/restoring.

For the record, I'll just state again that I don't support a ban on large constrictors, although I have no problem with efforts to remove them from the Everglades.
 

pitbulllady

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I, too, support removal of harmful invasives, BUT, realistically, we must look at the impact that ALL introduced species are having, and take measures to at least reduce the impact of all of them, NOT just make one the whipping boy because it is something that most people don't like because it isn't cute and fluffy. No one is even trying to address the hogs, cats or coyotes, all of which are having a very real negative impact and all of which are non-native, because even a big rank boar with six-inch tusks is perceived by most people as more appealing and worthy of protection than a reptile. Banning animals that are already well-established is like closing the proverbial barn door after the horses have run away. None of the snake fear-mongrels mention those other animals, or even the fire ant, which attacks baby animals in their dens and has been demonstrated to have broad-reaching impacts everywhere they have established on wildlife populations.

Pitbulllady
 

Tarac

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I, too, support removal of harmful invasives, BUT, realistically, we must look at the impact that ALL introduced species are having, and take measures to at least reduce the impact of all of them, NOT just make one the whipping boy because it is something that most people don't like because it isn't cute and fluffy. No one is even trying to address the hogs, cats or coyotes, all of which are having a very real negative impact and all of which are non-native, because even a big rank boar with six-inch tusks is perceived by most people as more appealing and worthy of protection than a reptile. Banning animals that are already well-established is like closing the proverbial barn door after the horses have run away. None of the snake fear-mongrels mention those other animals, or even the fire ant, which attacks baby animals in their dens and has been demonstrated to have broad-reaching impacts everywhere they have established on wildlife populations.

Pitbulllady
Precisely- we like to focus on the "creepy" megafauna when in reality it is far nastier and more threatening diminutive species that truly threaten the ecology, like the assorted foreign beetles and flies and fungus that come over on un-inspected shipping pallets that are killing off forests. I recently saw a talk by an invasive species expert, from an entomological background, and there is an uncanny correlation between the increase in global trade and the number of invasive species here and everywhere else on earth. The last time we had a mixing of the continents, i.e. Pangaea, there was a massive extinction event.

The thing about Burms and other giant pythons is that we all do need to admit that they are no easy animal to care for. While they are just snakes, which are relatively easy in terms of time and attention investment, they take up a lot of space and are not very cheap to feed and do become logistically challenging to work with which is why there are so many irresponsible owners or former owners with dead or released or re-sold Burms and Retics. Even little common boas, which are very little compared to a Burm, are constantly being handed off to local pet stores or sold on Craigslist because as they age the idiots who bought them thinking it would be so cool to have a giant snake are struck with the reality of owning a giant predator. No giant predator is easy to care for, period. And I say this as a (now permitted, grandfathered in of course) Burm owner, ok?

While I don't like the idea of uninformed legislators and politicians deciding the fate of the exotic pet trade, I'm not sure that IF we could have some kind of regulation to at least make sure the people you are selling these snakes to have more brain power than the snake itself it wouldn't really be a bad thing. We don't hand out even small wild cats, why should we let giant serpents and crocodilians and so on go to just anyone? It's a tricky line to tread, but let's not be the opposite extreme where we think "freedom" means "freedom" to be a moron who wants a giant snake because you saw Brittney Spears half naked shimmying around with a big white snake around her shoulders so many years ago. All that does is set up two sides that are pitted against one another and not thinking rationally because they become so emotionally invested in their argument that it no longer really makes sense and ends up justifying and inciting the other side anyway.

That is what we have now. Dumb legislation that does in fact justify our arguments- you ban something too late, you ban things from people who are perfectly capable of taking care of these animals, you ban things that might even be highly endangered in their wild habitat and now have no place in captivity either, you ban things that some people have already invested in and make a living from, etc., etc. All of that is a day late and a dollar short and does more harm than good. But arguing that anyone should be able to go into a pet store with a hundred bucks and buy a darn Anaconda is not a good counter-argument. It's best not to allow this to be a slippery-slope kind of issue but rather encourage a more finessed and well thought-out way to cope pet animals that are pretty obviously quite unmanageable for most citizens to care for. We have to keep in mind how short sighted a lot of people are and how many are barely able to properly care for a dog or cat or their own children. Don't argue things that can obviously be proven wrong, i.e. that any random person that wants a burm should have one because they will indeed be responsible and take care of it properly because we have plenty of examples of that not being the case. But do argue the positive- that there are lots of people taking good care of their treasured pets, that people have made lifetime investments in these animals, that there are public benefits to positive exposure and education, etc. because we also have examples of this to support this argument.

I, for one (and I know people are gonna want to flame me for it), support at least the restriction of "difficult" animals from hands that are not able to demonstrate they are capable caretakers of said animals. I'm glad that pet stores don't carry these large serpents in Florida anymore, not primarily due them being found in the wild but because the average Burm and the average "look at me and my giant snaaaaakkkee yo!" guy really shouldn't have that animal anyway. Let him find some other way to compensate. It's not fair to other people, it's not fair to the environment and it's definitely not fair at all to the poor Burm.

---------- Post added 01-09-2013 at 09:51 AM ----------

We've also had African Rock Pythons here as well. It's getting pretty ridiculous yeah.
And nile crocs and monitors and caimans and a million pest insects (citrus greening anyone? red bay ambrosia beetle, one of sixty some odd invasive ambrosia beetles in the US now?)... just have a suitable habitat and lots and lots of trade going on here, pet and otherwise.
 

Shrike

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I, for one (and I know people are gonna want to flame me for it), support at least the restriction of "difficult" animals from hands that are not able to demonstrate they are capable caretakers of said animals. I'm glad that pet stores don't carry these large serpents in Florida anymore, not primarily due them being found in the wild but because the average Burm and the average "look at me and my giant snaaaaakkkee yo!" guy really shouldn't have that animal anyway. Let him find some other way to compensate. It's not fair to other people, it's not fair to the environment and it's definitely not fair at all to the poor Burm.


I'm not going to flame you for that. Not an outright ban, but a process just restrictive enough to keep away the incompetents. If I'm not mistaken, indigo snakes require a permit to own. It's not difficult to obtain, but I imagine the paperwork exercise is enough to keep casual hobbyists away from the species.
 

Tarac

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I'm not going to flame you for that. Not an outright ban, but a process just restrictive enough to keep away the incompetents. If I'm not mistaken, indigo snakes require a permit to own. It's not difficult to obtain, but I imagine the paperwork exercise is enough to keep casual hobbyists away from the species.
I absolutely agree. Here is the issue- on the one hand you have the uninformed media and legislators, etc. giving the exotic pet enthusiasts a bad name by making dramatic and not always accurate statements about many facets of it. On the other hand, some responsibility for the bad name needs to be assumed by us as we (not us specifically, but buyers as a general population) contribute to it by letting "free-roaming" snakes strangle children in their beds, released/escaped exotics running rampant all over Florida, and so on. The media makes it seem more prevalent simply because all those stories are exciting to tell so they get more coverage than they deserve. And we (again, not us specifically) make it possible by allowing morons who think a free roaming boa is safe to have around an infant. If we simply cut out the idiots then the media has nothing to cover and viola! no more bad press.

My burm permit was easy to obtain, my snake is older than my fascination with tarantulas and therefor probably on his way out anyway, bless his cute little cow-like soul. Easy to show I owned him for ages through photos, easy to show I can keep him responsibly because I do. You are right, I bet it would be discouraging to many just to have to deal with the paperwork even though it isn't all that much. More over you can't buy them in any old shop anymore so in order to acquire an animal like this you would now have to put considerable effort into getting one, starting with applying for the permit. It's simply a way to keep "my snake is bigger than yours" people out of the market. They're not good for anyone or for the animals we are fighting to keep as part of our hobby.

And- don't get mad everyone!- I think this should be applied everywhere, not just in Florida because it goes beyond the scope of just preventing invasive species from becoming established/bolstered in number. That's a much trickier issue and is more a burden for import/export cargo inspectors quite frankly as that is where the largest number of our worst organisms find an entryway into the country. Giant snakes and the like are potentially dangerous and expensive to house and feed. Due to this they are the kind of animal that gets abused or killed either directly or indirectly because they become unmanageable (or rather because they were purchased by someone who either didn't do their due diligence as far as research goes or someone who didn't care or think far enough ahead about what this tiny little python would become in just a few short years). So it is for community and animal welfare more than just some snakes running around in the everglades with nile monitors and crocodiles, assorted agamids, giant African snails, marmorated stink bug, oscar cichild, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc... you get the idea.

---------- Post added 01-09-2013 at 01:59 PM ----------

No one is even trying to address the hogs, cats or coyotes, all of which are having a very real negative impact and all of which are non-native, because even a big rank boar with six-inch tusks is perceived by most people as more appealing and worthy of protection than a reptile. Banning animals that are already well-established is like closing the proverbial barn door after the horses have run away.
This is not true though. There are plenty of people hunting down hogs on purpose (even laws allowing the pursuit of feral hogs onto private property when hunting them!), lots of feral cat programs for spaying/destroying, etc. They just aren't covered on the news because they aren't that interesting to the public and are everyday battles. They are not protected at all, all of the examples you provided are actively pursued and eradicated when possible. The snake is more rare and more exotic so it gets attention. It's like saying no one cares to do anything about car crashes because all you ever hear about on TV are plane crashes. Not a fair comparison by virtue of the "interest" factor which news relies on. News channels that don't stay interesting ultimately don't get to make any news at all.

You hit the issue right on the head- it is almost unheard of to extirpate an invasive species once it has taken hold. It happens but so rarely that I can't even think of an example off the top of my head although I know it has happened a few times. But generally, once established invasives are usually there to stay.

Here is a link for Dr. Mazzotti you spoke of, I have met him. Very nice guy, fascinating stories and research. He does in fact believe that the pet trade is very responsible for this population.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/uw286

http://crocdoc.ifas.ufl.edu/projects/burmesepythonradiotelemetry/
 
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pitbulllady

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I absolutely agree. Here is the issue- on the one hand you have the uninformed media and legislators, etc. giving the exotic pet enthusiasts a bad name by making dramatic and not always accurate statements about many facets of it. On the other hand, some responsibility for the bad name needs to be assumed by us as we (not us specifically, but buyers as a general population) contribute to it by letting "free-roaming" snakes strangle children in their beds, released/escaped exotics running rampant all over Florida, and so on. The media makes it seem more prevalent simply because all those stories are exciting to tell so they get more coverage than they deserve. And we (again, not us specifically) make it possible by allowing morons who think a free roaming boa is safe to have around an infant. If we simply cut out the idiots then the media has nothing to cover and viola! no more bad press.

My burm permit was easy to obtain, my snake is older than my fascination with tarantulas and therefor probably on his way out anyway, bless his cute little cow-like soul. Easy to show I owned him for ages through photos, easy to show I can keep him responsibly because I do. You are right, I bet it would be discouraging to many just to have to deal with the paperwork even though it isn't all that much. More over you can't buy them in any old shop anymore so in order to acquire an animal like this you would now have to put considerable effort into getting one, starting with applying for the permit. It's simply a way to keep "my snake is bigger than yours" people out of the market. They're not good for anyone or for the animals we are fighting to keep as part of our hobby.

And- don't get mad everyone!- I think this should be applied everywhere, not just in Florida because it goes beyond the scope of just preventing invasive species from becoming established/bolstered in number. That's a much trickier issue and is more a burden for import/export cargo inspectors quite frankly as that is where the largest number of our worst organisms find an entryway into the country. Giant snakes and the like are potentially dangerous and expensive to house and feed. Due to this they are the kind of animal that gets abused or killed either directly or indirectly because they become unmanageable (or rather because they were purchased by someone who either didn't do their due diligence as far as research goes or someone who didn't care or think far enough ahead about what this tiny little python would become in just a few short years). So it is for community and animal welfare more than just some snakes running around in the everglades with nile monitors and crocodiles, assorted agamids, giant African snails, marmorated stink bug, oscar cichild, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc... you get the idea.

---------- Post added 01-09-2013 at 01:59 PM ----------



This is not true though. There are plenty of people hunting down hogs on purpose (even laws allowing the pursuit of feral hogs onto private property when hunting them!), lots of feral cat programs for spaying/destroying, etc. They just aren't covered on the news because they aren't that interesting to the public and are everyday battles. They are not protected at all, all of the examples you provided are actively pursued and eradicated when possible. The snake is more rare and more exotic so it gets attention. It's like saying no one cares to do anything about car crashes because all you ever hear about on TV are plane crashes. Not a fair comparison by virtue of the "interest" factor which news relies on. News channels that don't stay interesting ultimately don't get to make any news at all.

You hit the issue right on the head- it is almost unheard of to extirpate an invasive species once it has taken hold. It happens but so rarely that I can't even think of an example off the top of my head although I know it has happened a few times. But generally, once established invasives are usually there to stay.

Here is a link for Dr. Mazzotti you spoke of, I have met him. Very nice guy, fascinating stories and research. He does in fact believe that the pet trade is very responsible for this population.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/uw286

http://crocdoc.ifas.ufl.edu/projects/burmesepythonradiotelemetry/
Hog hunting is not allowed in the Everglades National Park. You cannot bring dogs in there(except for the Labs that the FWS people have trained to hunt pythons), and until the recent python hunting, you could not bring a firearm in there unless again, you were with a law enforcement agency. There are places where there is a lot of hog hunting(having been a hogger myself, I'm very familiar with those), but they honestly aren't doing anything but forcing them to reproduce faster, same with coyotes. Like you said, once an invasive specie is entrenched, it's here to stay. Eventually, the environment itself will adapt around the invasives, as has happened with many already(we all know of many common spiders that aren't native to the US, but are found here in large numbers), or the invasives will meet some outside force that limits their ability to expand, like the weather. The best we can do is harvest the excess through hunting, etc. if they are a problematic specie.

pitbulllady
 

Tarac

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Hog hunting is not allowed in the Everglades National Park.
That doesn't mean nothing is being done about hogs. You can hunt Big Cypress and basically all of the other otherwise protected wildlife management areas in the region. I don't understand how that "forces" them to reproduce faster. Can you explain what you mean by that? You mean perhaps that they are killing off part of the population so there is more room for new individuals that would've otherwise been outcompeted? They've only really been here for about 100 years or so and since that time the only significant cause of mortality is hunting/trapping. Unfortunately, shooting them is only an effective means of control in less hospitable habitats which is of course why they continue to flourish here in the South East despite extensive hunting. It's not from lack of trying.

http://www.berrymaninstitute.org/pdf/managing-feral-pigs.pdf

Regardless, I would think that expanded and loosening laws to make hunting hogs more accesible to a broader population constitutes "doing something" about them. You know you don't even need a hunting license to kill hogs, unlike virtually every other animal in the US? It's doing more than allowing a few permitted people here and there to hunt pythons in the Everglades, no? When it first started there were only just over a dozen people actually licensed to hunt pythons in the glades. The idea that we are ignoring the other invasives in favor of the python-watch is not accurate. It doesn't qualify one or the other as being worse, they're all bad for local ecology and will ultimately result in a change in our natural communities. We will see the ecology adapt as it has for ages but what that typically means is that we will lose a whole bunch of native species and have a handful of new exotic species in their place. Our global trade, pet and product, is definitely accelerating the mass extinction event we are starting to see obvious signs of already. It's really a shame.
 
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pitbulllady

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That doesn't mean nothing is being done about hogs. You can hunt Big Cypress and basically all of the other otherwise protected wildlife management areas in the region. I don't understand how that "forces" them to reproduce faster. Can you explain what you mean by that? You mean perhaps that they are killing off part of the population so there is more room for new individuals that would've otherwise been outcompeted? They've only really been here for about 100 years or so and since that time the only significant cause of mortality is hunting/trapping. Unfortunately, shooting them is only an effective means of control in less hospitable habitats which is of course why they continue to flourish here in the South East despite extensive hunting. It's not from lack of trying.

http://www.berrymaninstitute.org/pdf/managing-feral-pigs.pdf

Regardless, I would think that expanded and loosening laws to make hunting hogs more accesible to a broader population constitutes "doing something" about them. You know you don't even need a hunting license to kill hogs, unlike virtually every other animal in the US? It's doing more than allowing a few permitted people here and there to hunt pythons in the Everglades, no? When it first started there were only just over a dozen people actually licensed to hunt pythons in the glades. The idea that we are ignoring the other invasives in favor of the python-watch is not accurate. It doesn't qualify one or the other as being worse, they're all bad for local ecology and will ultimately result in a change in our natural communities. We will see the ecology adapt as it has for ages but what that typically means is that we will lose a whole bunch of native species and have a handful of new exotic species in their place. Our global trade, pet and product, is definitely accelerating the mass extinction event we are starting to see obvious signs of already. It's really a shame.
Many animal species respond to increased pressure from hunting/trapping by either having larger litters, or by breeding more frequently, and in the case of feral hogs, it's both. Feral sows also breed at an earlier age than domestic pigs and can produce up to three litters per year. Coyotes in areas where they are hunted extensively often have litters of over 10 puppies; I've personally counted a litter of 13 following a female. In Yellowstone, prior to the re-introduction of wolves, coyote litters averaged 2-5 pups, and now they average 6-8 pups, still fewer than where human hunting pressures are heavy, but more than when the coyotes had no real predator.

pitbulllady
 

Tarac

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Many animal species respond to increased pressure from hunting/trapping by either having larger litters, or by breeding more frequently, and in the case of feral hogs, it's both. Feral sows also breed at an earlier age than domestic pigs and can produce up to three litters per year. Coyotes in areas where they are hunted extensively often have litters of over 10 puppies; I've personally counted a litter of 13 following a female. In Yellowstone, prior to the re-introduction of wolves, coyote litters averaged 2-5 pups, and now they average 6-8 pups, still fewer than where human hunting pressures are heavy, but more than when the coyotes had no real predator.

pitbulllady
If you check that link you'll see that's not exactly true of hogs. What happens instead, under pressure, is that the younger, smaller females who do usually breed and make it therefor virtually impossible to eradicate them via hunting/trapping, will stop breeding altogether. Since it is the larger females who are statistically more likely to be shot than their smaller counterparts it actually decreases the net number of births in the feral hog population. Less are breeding and the ones that are breeding are less likely to survive. This is also true of areas where there is natural pressure- unsuitable habitats result in no young females breeding. Of course this is kind of a catch-22 because they "good" habitats are either places we need (agriculture, etc.) or rich ecosystems so they're impossible to kill of in these settings but in places with more bare needs not being met, in less desirable or ecologically rich territory they can quite successfully be extirpated.

Rats and mice also decrease breeding frequency, litter size and increase breeding age when they are under pressure. So the opposite is also a common motif in population dynamics as it is with hogs.

I did not know that about coyotes, that's interesting. I wonder what the net gain is vs. the mortality rate with urban pressure and hunting on the rise. We have coyote right on the fringes of the city here, I've run into them crossing the road a few times while driving (not actually run over unfortunately lol) and once while walking my dog at night. I see them very often when I am fishing in the Steinhatchee area, they're extremely abundant now in the more rural parts of northern Florida.
 
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