Why did my tarantula didn't die in a death curl?

[Shaydd]

Hello everyone,
My Brachypelma Hamorii died maybe a few days ago, I'm not sure, she's not in a death curl and I don't know why she died. I think she was preparing to molt as she showed the signs and a few days ago she started to web but stopped half way, went at the entrance of her hide, stopped moving and that's where I found her, dead; what could have happened?
Here's are some pictures of her and her enclosure and thank you all for your time.

 

[Andrew Clayton]

I don't know if it had anything to do with it's demise but that is overfed, could be compaction, basically constipation for spiders but can be fatal. How often were you feeding it as there opportunistic eaters meaning even if they are full they will still eat.

Hello everyone,
My Brachypelma Hamorii died maybe a few days ago, I'm not sure, she's not in a death curl and I don't know why she died. I think she was preparing to molt as she showed the signs and a few days ago she started to web but stopped half way, went at the entrance of her hide, stopped moving and that's where I found her, dead; what could have happened?
Here's are some pictures of her and her enclosure and thank you all for your time.

I'm leaning towards impaction now. If you look at the middle pic you posted between the spinnerets, looks like it has tried to poo but stuck. If you're feeding on a schedule, stop doing that. Go with the size of the T's abdomen, anything as fat as yours was definitely does not need feeding. I got a new juvie Lasidora Parahybana well over a month ago and I've still not gave it a meal as it is that fat in the booty. To me it also wasn't due to moult, by how light coloured the bald patch on the abdomen is, although this isn't exactly 100% accurate

 

[sparticus]

What is the big circular mark on the side of the abdomen facing us? Is it raised? Or just kicked off hairs? I can't tell from the angle of the picture.

 

[A guy]

compaction

*Impaction

 

[Shaydd]

I'm leaning towards compaction now. If you look at the middle pic you posted between the spinnerets, looks like it has tried to poo but stuck. If you're feeding on a schedule, stop doing that. Go with the size of the T's abdomen, anything as fat as yours was definitely does not need feeding. I got a new juvie Lasidora Parahybana well over a month ago and I've still not gave it a meal as it is that fat in the booty. To me it also wasn't due to moult, by how light coloured the bald patch on the abdomen is, although this isn't exactly 100% accurate

I wasn't following a schedule but maybe 2-3 times a month? So it was too much? She seemed to be pooping fine.. But thank you

What is the big circular mark on the side of the abdomen facing us? Is it raised? Or just kicked off hairs? I can't tell from the angle of the picture.

She had that mark for quite a long time, the substrate used to be too low but the mark didn't seem to bother her.

 

[Andrew Clayton]

*Impaction

Lol my bad because I was going on to explain about it being like constipation haha

I wasn't following a schedule but maybe 2-3 times a month? So it was too much? She seemed to be pooping fine.. But thank you

2-3 time a month sounds fine but 0 at that size just provide a water dish so they can stay hydrated.

 

[l4nsky]

I'm leaning towards compaction now. If you look at the middle pic you posted between the spinnerets, looks like it has tried to poo but stuck. If you're feeding on a schedule, stop doing that. Go with the size of the T's abdomen, anything as fat as yours was definitely does not need feeding. I got a new juvie Lasidora Parahybana well over a month ago and I've still not gave it a meal as it is that fat in the booty. To me it also wasn't due to moult, by how light coloured the bald patch on the abdomen is, although this isn't exactly 100% accurate

There's bright white fecal material at the base of the back wall and on the substrate in two spots I see pictured. Not much, but some. OP can confirm, but it looks like that enclosure hasn't been setup too long, which would indicate normal defecation IMO.

Feeding on a schedule isn't bad in and of itself. Feeding the same sized prey item on a schedule with no consideration for where the specimen is in it's molt cycle is what you want to avoid.

She had that mark for quite a long time, the substrate used to be too low but the mark didn't seem to bother her.

How long have you had her? Did she get the mark when in your care or was she acquired with it present? Has it been with her over several molts? If she got the mark in your care, do you know if she fell from height when the substrate was lower?

Just going off what's available now, she appeared to be in good health. I see defecation and she wasn't dehydrated when she passed (which is typically what death curl indicates IME). That mark looks like it matches the width of the edge of your water bowl in the corner. If I had to guess, she likely fell when climbing in the corner and caused some internal injuries when she fell on the edge of the bowl. She wasn't able to fully heal and when she went to molt, those injuries ultimately proved fatal.

 

[Shaydd]

There's bright white fecal material at the base of the back wall and on the substrate in two spots I see pictured. Not much, but some. OP can confirm, but it looks like that enclosure hasn't been setup too long, which would indicate normal defecation IMO.

Feeding on a schedule isn't bad in and of itself. Feeding the same sized prey item on a schedule with no consideration for where the specimen is in it's molt cycle is what you want to avoid.


How long have you had her? Did she get the mark when in your care or was she acquired with it present? Has it been with her over several molts? If she got the mark in your care, do you know if she fell from height when the substrate was lower?

Just going off what's available now, she appeared to be in good health. I see defecation and she wasn't dehydrated when she passed (which is typically what death curl indicates IME). That mark looks like it matches the width of the edge of your water bowl in the corner. If I had to guess, she likely fell when climbing in the corner and caused some internal injuries when she fell on the edge of the bowl. She wasn't able to fully heal and when she went to molt, those injuries ultimately proved fatal.

I had her for 6 years, it was my first T. And she got the mark after her last molt. I don't know wherever it was because of a fall, people on the forum suspect it was, but again she didn't seem to mind and was acting normally.
And you're correct, the enclosure is quite new, I had changed the substrate because the other one was really bad but she had pooped several time since then, I just cleaned it some times ago but the one we see was a few days old.

 

[sparticus]

Sorry for your loss. My suspicion would also be either an old injury or a cyst. If there was too much vertical space in the old enclosure she could have fallen quite a while ago and the injury wasn't a problem until she was preparing to molt.

 

[l4nsky]

but again she didn't seem to mind and was acting normally.

If an animal's behaviour clearly indicates a health problem, then by that time it is usually quite serious or even past the point of no return. In nature, the weak are picked off by predators or out-competed by their stronger kin. To survive, no animal is going to broadcast it's pain or difficulties unless it finally grows too weak and lacks the ability to hide it.

As a frame of reference, compare how a dog handles being spayed vs how a human handles a hysterectomy. For the dog, who would likely get an ovariohysterectomy (ovaries and fallopian tubes, on top of the typical uterus removal for a hysterectomy), they have to be coned to prevent them pulling out the stitches and the human caretaker usually has to take steps to ensure the dog can't over-exert herself and can heal. In stark contrast, a human will be confined to a bed for days, sore, and have to be encouraged to move during the healing process. They both feel a similar level of discomfort after the procedure, it's just the dog doesn't really grasp it's relative safety in nature and will just fight through it instead of deliberately choosing to rest for healing even though still physically capable, like a human on doctor's orders.

 

[fcat]

No chance it got overheated, or cooked in the sun?

 

[viper69]

No one can tell you from pics- send it for a necropsy if you want to really know

 

[Shaydd]

No chance it got overheated, or cooked in the sun?

No, here in Switzerland it's quite cold and the temperature in my house is around 18°C. Also my enclosures are in the shadow.

 

[TheraMygale]

Feeding the same sized prey item on a schedule with no consideration for where the specimen is in it's molt cycle is what you want to avoid

when possible, could you please elaborate what you meant. I know the risks with feeding when in pre and post molt because of feeders being dangerous. But other then that, what else. I simply want to make sure i am not missing some information in my mind palace.

sometimes, people have an extra bit of magic to share and i don’t want to miss out on it. Thanks.

 

[l4nsky]

when possible, could you please elaborate what you meant. I know the risks with feeding when in pre and post molt because of feeders being dangerous. But other then that, what else. I simply want to make sure i am not missing some information in my mind palace.

sometimes, people have an extra bit of magic to share and i don’t want to miss out on it. Thanks.

Not really much to elaborate on. If you're just chucking a single cricket in an enclosure once a week and filling a water bowl without thought or assessment, then you're not actually caring for the specimen and addressing it's needs in the moment, you're just doing a mundane repetitive chore with no care for the outcome or consequences.

As an example, if a specimen has just molted, I might offer double the food, but prekilled and placed on their webbing to start packing weight back on fast without risking prey injuring the tarantula or damaging its softer fangs during a struggle. That's a stark difference in approach to just tossing a cricket in to harrass the spider after a molt and moving on to the next spider to feed.

A husbandry schedule is great for humans to stay organized, but it doesn't mean the animal is going to get the same care time in and time out, especially with cold blooded animals.

 

[sparticus]

when possible, could you please elaborate what you meant. I know the risks with feeding when in pre and post molt because of feeders being dangerous. But other then that, what else. I simply want to make sure i am not missing some information in my mind palace.

sometimes, people have an extra bit of magic to share and i don’t want to miss out on it. Thanks.

I took it to mean that spiders need the bigger meals earlier in the molt cycle, when they are doing the most growing. Once mine start rejecting food I wait longer between offering prey at all, and the next meal I offer will be something smaller, mostly for hydration.

 

[Althecreature]

Hello everyone,
My Brachypelma Hamorii died maybe a few days ago, I'm not sure, she's not in a death curl and I don't know why she died. I think she was preparing to molt as she showed the signs and a few days ago she started to web but stopped half way, went at the entrance of her hide, stopped moving and that's where I found her, dead; what could have happened?
Here's are some pictures of her and her enclosure and thank you all for your time.

Very sorry that you lost your spider!

 

[TheraMygale]

I took it to mean that spiders need the bigger meals earlier in the molt cycle, when they are doing the most growing. Once mine start rejecting food I wait longer between offering prey at all, and the next meal I offer will be something smaller, mostly for hydration.

I understood that much. Sometimes i just need clarification.

But i get it now. He was more in the context of people who just feed one cricket or some once a week and dont take note of tarantula size and molting process.

its not what i do. I was just curious. It helps to know what train of thought people are on. Some of us, aka me, have moments where things don’t make sense in our mind but its just text comprehension.