Which ones are legal?

[CustomNature]

I was just wondering roughly what insects are 100% totally legal for commercial sale?? I know they had that big crack down a year or two ago on mantids and millipedes so I figured they're off the list. To my calculations, the only things I can figure are fair game are tarantulas and scorpions, right? Are there any sub-limitations on those as well?? Such as more venomous species are illegal? Also, what about things such as tailless whip scorpions and black widows?? I dunno, just seeing what other peoples' understanding are as well.

 

[Wade]

Nearly all EXOTIC insects are forbidden by USDA regulations. They have an extremely broad defintion as to what a pest is. Anything that eats plants, even dead rotten plants or plant fluids (like nectar) are considered pests, so ther goes stick insects, cockroaches, grasshoppers, most beetles etc.

Also, any predator that MIGHT eat a pollinating insect (like bees and butterflies) are also considered pests, so there goes mantids, pretory beetles, assassin bugs etc.

The only exotic insects their regulation doesn't cover are aquatic insects.

There are a few specific insects that are allowed, including the house cricket (A. domestica), the same one we use as feeders, as well as T. molitar (mealworm) and I think flightless fruitflies.

Native insects are allowed, but techically require a USDA permit for interstate travel. Many states also have their own regulations.

I'm not sure if they've actually started siezing millipedes, or have just threatened to. I'm not sure that they actually fall under the USDA's jurisdiction since they're not insects, and most other non-insect arthropods fall under USFW who are concerned more with violation of CITES, the Endangerd Species Act, and the Lacey Act than they are with pests.

Since arachnids (other than Acari which is under the USDA) fall under the USFWS, unless the spider or scorpion is a CITES species (Brachypelma, a few Aphonopelma, and some Pandinus) or has been smuggled from a closed country (Australia, Brazil etc) there are no legal restrictions on their trade. Ditto centipedes.

Wade

 

[CustomNature]

Wow, thanks Wade. That's exactly the type of response I was hoping to receive! Of course, I still don't understand their logic... aside from the invasive threat. Anyway, thanks again.

 

[Scorpendra]

ther IS no logic in it. these guys who make these laws are insecto-arachnophobic (invertophobic?), and barely even take the time to see if they pose any environmental threat.

 

[Wade]

Most most of the people running the USDA APHIS division (the one that regulates inverts) are entomolgists, so it's not fear or phobias motivating them, rather it's the quest of government bueracracies to gain more power. The more things that are banned, the more money they can ask congress for in order to enforce it.

Introduced insects have caused tremendous damage, both to the natural environment and to agriculture, so there is legitimate concern about not regulating the trade at all. However, a more logical approach would be for the USDA to make a list of "exceptions" that they would allow private citizens to have. After all, the vast majority of insects aren't going to be of much interest to hobbyists, it's just a relatively few big showy ones that we're really interested in. In many cases, common sense should provide ample evidence that popular insects are harmlesss, for example many phasmids have been in culture for decades in this country, yet they have not become established pests. Common sense dictates that if it could happen, it would have by now!

In the case of mantids, the USDA claims that it is the mites that might hitchhike on imprts that they are really concerned with. Once agin, logically, captive bred mantids should be free of these pests and therefore should be allowed. But no.

Wade

 

[Scorpendra]

either way, there's 0 chance of me having a P. paradoxa.

 

[Peter_Parker]

Apparently the usda doesn't take their own laws too seriously (except in the few states like florida, hawaii, and california), considering how many people keep the "outlawed'" inverts quite obviously.. Only those GALS seem to spark them into major crackdown mode. Besides them, are there any invasive inverts in the country that were/are commonly kept as pets? None that I can think of.. I mean, the asian longhorn, and emerald ash borer arrived in lumber imports, correct? And the gypsy moth? Didn't some scientists bring them here to try and make better silk? None of those have much pet potential.

 

[CustomNature]

lol. That's a good point Peter. Out of all the invasive insects that I can think of that are now established in our country have ALL come from sources other than hobbyists. Infact, many of them seem to have been introduced through carelessness of the very people that are banning them.... governing entomologists. Such as the gypsy moths and the infamous killer bees. Other than that, the wood borers and longhorns have come from the shipping and cargo/lumber industries. But, I guess at the end of the day, all of our points and complaints will fall on deaf ears. Like Wade said, it's more of a political move then a environmental one.

 

[kraken]

Personally,most enthusiasts and hobbyists would be more responsible and wouldnt let their prized pets escape into the wild,or be foolish enough to release them

 

[BurrowDweller]

Unfortunately you were correct when you said most wouldn't let them escape or turn them loose. I work in a pet shop and everyday at least one moron comes in talking about how he turned his fish loose in the creek cause he was tired of them or let the birds out of the cage cause they made too much noise and they couldn't deal with them anymore. The real enthusiast know the dangers in this and don't do it, it is the idlly curious or the poeple who get stuff just to be cool that do the dumb stuff that we all end up paying for. I do however agree that most of the laws are overkill, impossible to enforce, and mainly put in place due to motives other than environmental protection.

 

[kraken]

Yeah...its the average joe that buys a pet on an impulse,or because its "cool" that it eats another live animal or for whatever reason other than the reason a true enthusiast buys is the reason (boy,I said reason enough didnt I) we cant get alot of species. Take GALS for instance.All it took for them to be tops on the list is that boy that smuggled 3 from Hawaii in 1966 and then his grandma turning them loose cause he tired of them. $10,000,000 and 18,000 gals later and now I heard they will raid your house like it was drugs. Your right,the responsible suffer because of the irresponsible.

 

[John J Starr Jr]

Invasive Links

Here are a couple of links. There are many out there to look at.

http://www.invasive.org

http://www.entm.purdue.edu/entomology/ext/targets/e-series/exotic.html

What next, hardwire and network our brains to see if we are thinking about insects as pets which makes us thought criminals. This current government has got to go, complete overall, over the next two elections.

John J Starr Jr.

 

[luna]

This is a serious issue that has caused me a tremendous amount of internal conflict.

I love arthropods and have kept them most of my life. I also have had a few gardening phases where the collector in me purchased many beautiful species from around the world to plant in my yard.

I'm truly amazed at the diversity of life forms and the compulsion to have the most interesting things in my private collection is a passion that is hard to suppress.

So what is the problem? That personal quest for surrounding myself with an amazing variety of organism is a threat to the total diversity of my world...

Gypsy moths and killer bees are the best known examples of exotic insects gone wild... both of those are introduction problems were started by people who were quite knowledgeable about the species they were dealing with and then something went wrong.

Asian long horned beetles, Japanese beetles, Emerald ash borers... the list goes on and on. Not brought over for the pet trade but accidental introductions that devastate native plant populations. Its not just the damage cause by plant eating insects but the other pathogens they carry with them... my neighborhood has many dying Elms. I've never seen a Chestnut.

I've lived in Pennsylvania all of my life. I love our native flora & fauna including the state tree, the Hemlock. Will my great-grandchildren ever get to see them? Probably not... the Hemlock Wolly Adelgid is a monster. What should be our next state tree when the Hemlock is gone? Princess Trees, Tree-of-Heaven, and Norway Maples may be good contenders. Or what about the new form of vegetation blanketing my area... anything (telephone poles, fences, dead trees that were smothered) covered with invasive vines like Japanese honeysuckle and Oriental bittersweet... not quit trees but huge mounds of vegetation that are dominating the area.

The introduction of non-native species often leads to the decrease of the native ones. An ecosystem is a delicate balance of organisms that interact with each other. These exotics tip that balance.

It really shouldn't be about what is legal but about what is right. Plant eaters have the potential of being very dangerous. So are any exotic organisms that have the ability to reproduce if they are accidentally released into your area.

Now that I am feeling extremely guilty about my own little collection, I beg us all to be very careful.

Cheri

 

[Wade]

For the most part, enforcement focusus on importers and dealers. A pet shop near me was recently inspected by the USDA because one of their wholesale suppliers was offering exotic walkingsticks. Also, many mantids were siezed by the USDA from importers and at reptile shows.

As far as P. paradoxa goes, that species was being bred in the US well before the USDA crackdown, so no doubt lots of hobbyists still have them. The USDA has admitted they are not sure if they are going to go after captive bred mantids or not, so at some point they may be allowed again. Much of the current furor is over the mites that are decimating the honeybee population, and the concern is that some other exotic mite might hitchike in and cause more problems.

Wade

 

[Wade]

The introduction of non-native species often leads to the decrease of the native ones. An ecosystem is a delicate balance of organisms that interact with each other. These exotics tip that balance.

It really shouldn't be about what is legal but about what is right. Plant eaters have the potential of being very dangerous. So are any exotic organisms that have the ability to reproduce if they are accidentally released into your area.

Now that I am feeling extremely guilty about my own little collection, I beg us all to be very careful.

Cheri

Indeed, introduced exotics can cause a whole host of problems. There are many aspects of the USDA regs I agree with. The African land snails, for example, I think should be banned, as they are a proven pest with devestaing capabilities.

When it comes to animals that actually eat living plants, I'd say USDA is justified in taking very cautious approach. I do not believe that we should be wide open to imports of any arthropod that catches our fancy, I do support LOGICAL restrictions.

However, I do have a problem with their blanket bans which smack of regulation for regulation's sake. In some cases, the insects in question (phasmids are a great example) have been in culture for so long and are raised so widely by hundreds, maybe thousands, of people in this country for
decades. If they had a real pest potential, it would have revealed itself by now! Even if they posed some type a threat, enforcement at that stage is impossible and a waste of time and money, money that could be better spent stopping new,real pests from getting in.

Annother example is the mantids. Mantids simply do not occur in the kinds of numbers and densities to actually impact pollinator populations (or pest populations, for that matter) I've observed introduced Chinese mantids hunting in the same bush as native mantids and assassin bugs, so they aren't out-competeing the natives either. The fear about introducing mites is legitimate (although unlikely, IMO since most parasitic mites are fairly host-specific) , buit again can me removed through multi-generational captive breeding. A reaasonable permitting system would help this situation, but as it stands now, unless you are a museum, zoo, or university you can pretty much forget about getting a permit.

The main reason for manning mantids was to protect the honeybee, which is NOT a native species to begin with. The USDA claims plants won't get pollinated without them, but somehow they managed before honeybees were introduced.

Wade

 

[Peter_Parker]

I doubt many of the inverts with pet potential would be successful invasive species. I mean, some phasmids can take 10 months or more to hatch, and when they do, they grow relatively slowly compared to other leaf eating bugs, and typically require more humidity, right? They don't really fit the criteria of an "invasive species". At most (in a warm state like florida), they might be able to to fit the bill as an "escaped exotic", but not much more IMO. Besides, since the only way to even really get exotic insects is on websites like these (and there aren't many of them that I know about), which are typically frequented by people like us who respect the animals and the habitats they/we live in (and not those "I want it because I can show it off to my friends" type people..), I don't see how the average Joe could easy acquire some of them. Like you guys are saying, all the new legislation is preventing the pet stores from getting them, so where else will the people who release them into the wild get them from anyway?