When do you know if a sack is bad?

[Sean]

My usambra layed her sack a month ago this coming saturday. She is still sitting on it though and clutching it hard.The sack is fairly large too. Is there anywayz you can tell if a sack is bad just by looking at it from the outside?Or is the only way to tell is by taking a look inside??

Sean

 

[DR zuum]

Most of the time if its bad or infertile the female will destroy it after a period of time,but some females will destroy it even if its viable,which is why i pull mine soon after they make one,if shes still holding it and turningi it more than likely its good,if its only been a month i wouldnt be concerned.if shes doing the good mama routine let her finish the job.If you decide to pull it and finish the job yourself the best method of seperation ive come up with to avoid damage to the sac or her is a blowdryer dont put it right on top of her but about 1 to 1 1/2 ft away use it to seperate her from the sac then pick it up by a fold with tweezers be careful not to drop it or put pressure on it.follow the low tech hammock method in a crittter keeper.turning it by gently rolling it by turning the critter keeper from side to side.5 to 6 times a day be gentle if youve got experience you can cup the sac and palpitate it with your finger tips while in the hammock turning it that way but this requires a soft touch.

 

[death66]

my g.rosea held and turned her's constantly for over 5 weeks. then one dim night a couple days ago she stared eating it, so i snached it from her. when i opened it , to my dissapointment they were infertile. sniffle sniffle...

 

[DR zuum]

Yep if its bad momma will take care of it,but just keep a eye on it for anyone with a sac that wants to ship it to me due to inexperience or not wanting to incubate artificially ill do it for you and ship it back to you complete all spiderlings intact for 2 spiderlings from each sac to cover the cost of me shipping it back to you and the incubation work.

If its non viable the entire sac and contents will be sent back to you at my expense no recompense,asap if viable ill incubate it until term take my 2 slings and send you the rest back this is not a get over or a scam im serious,ive got incubators and can almost guarantee if its viable ill hatch it out . just call me daddy day care.lol ive only dealt with a couple of people here so far but they can tell you im straight no games ill do exactly what i say ill do for you.

 

[Andrew vV]

I usually open the egg sac after a couple weeks, and it will be quite obvious by this point if development is taking place( I use an incubator and never leave the eggs with the female) If you have mated the female, I would say there is a good chance that the eggs are fertile. Im not sure if I would risk shipping the eggs anywhere as they are not as resiliant as actual spiders are. Spiders can tolerate a wide range of temps and humidity, where the eggs cannot.

 

[DR zuum]

Done it no probs different people different experience and knowledge if i hadnt done it before i wouldnt make the offer trust me.If someone decided to take me up on my offer id give them detailed instructons on how to do it.,his sac id agree its probably fertile leave it with momma shes done it this long she'll probably finish the job the offer really didnt apply to him.The offer was more toward those folks,whove tried and tried after geting a good mating but no hatches due to mom eating it or not tending it properly or whatever,and want the babies for breeding or selling or just as pets.

 

[pdrake]

does this deal count even if the sac is a month old? plus i live in vegas.

 

[DR zuum]

Yep if youre here in town all the better,what species?a month old in incubator or mothers care?temp and humidity its been kept at?we can meet any time you like ill bring my stuff ill pm you my phone number.if youre underage though ill need you to get your parents permission to contact me as i saw no age in your profile.

 

[tarantulakeeper]

Sean, all my usambara babies have emerged in three weeks. Give it a couple more weeks but I'll guessing they aren't fertile. My female laid some more eggs I wasn't aware of and the babies started emerging today.

To the rest, great discussion on egg sacs that resemble round golf balls. These are easy to take and incubate. However, Sean's usambara weaves a hammock in the middle of all her webbing. Much more difficult to get at. The female doesn't "turn" them, she just guards them. I had two C. bechs guard infertile sacs for about four weeks before they tore them up.

Hope I'm wrong, Sean. John

 

[DR zuum]

Well temp plays a role in development,and ive watched usumbara females turn thier sacs and massage it with thier pedipalps,thers a reason for this behaviour ive kept a lot of species a lot and they all have massaged those sacs or rotated them some more some less,and they were not all round golfballs.i mean no offense bro but your T is your T you havent seen every usumbara so you cant put it forth as a absolute,thats your experience bro,just like mine are my experiences every specimen isnt the same and the blow dryer works they abandon the sac every time,in my experience. it may be infertile but then again it may not,temp has a strong role in it,maybe all yours have hatched in 21 days (3 weeks) ive had them go from 28 to 47 days i mean by your own admission your female had a sac you werent even aware of, how accurate can you be on its time frame or her actions with it since you werent even aware of it ? it varies.give it a few more weeks (which should put it at somwhere in the nieghborhood of 49 days) bro if it hasnt hatched by then pull it and see.

 

[Charlie]

Pretty cool to make youeself available in that way there Zumm.

-Charlie

 

[Steve Nunn]

Honestly, incubating a sac is so damn easy I couldn't see why anyone would need to ship one anywhere??? I'm not bagging your offer Zumm, but if you've done this a lot you'll know how easy it is. Wouldn't it make more sense to show these people how it's done exactly, in the hope they will try it again and again and again??

Hell, to be honest I've thrown sacs in a small tub with some dirt and they've hatched (one week from sac production)!!! They hardly need turning at all, a little humidity and you're away, it really is that simple. Of course you could build simple incubators and because of fungus I'd recommend this and not the tub of dirt

Try it yourselves guys, it's really not that difficult at all.

Steve

 

[tarantulakeeper]

Dr zumm is exactly right. I forgot the cardinal rule of sharing experiences to preface mine with "in my experience". I can reflect only on what my T has done and should not have generalized. Both breedings I've had with this female were in the same room so the temp was the same for both which probably accounts for the similar emerging dates.

I was surprised to find babies this time because she dropped an eggsac in July from a breeding I did with a male from John Hoke. I split them up, sent John his share, gave a few away, sold a few, and still have a few. I cleaned out her kritter keeper of all substrate, washed down the walls and put her back. After two weeks or so of not much going on she re-established a web retreat under her cork bark hide. As they are pretty webby anyway and she's a long term captive I pretty much ignore her except for water and a roach or two. I was showing off some other babies (Chacos) to my wife (Helen) when my light settled on her container. There's 12-15 tan colored babies starting to work their way
around the webbing. Could be more, can't tell yet.

I have heard of two sets of spiderlings from one breeding but wasn't expecting it.

Keep us informed, Sean.

John

 

[DR zuum]

Picked up the egg sac from pdrake i was worried when i saw the bottom of the tank coverd completely in about 1/16 of a inch of mold but upon inspecting the sac thought it might still be viable,got it home opened it eggs underdeveloped for the time it had been with her but still eggs were viable the underdevelopment was probably due to the low temp,ive placed them in a 86 degree 60% humidity incubator they looked good despite the underdevelopment i believe it should be a good hatch still,i notified pdrake it was viable and gave hin the info on when id be returning them to him,i advised him to go over to p soil,he had some nice T,s and he really cares about them the mold thing was due to the bedding in my opinion,but he did have the foresight to have a seperate station container in there for her to live above the mold line,which is probably why the female was in good shape and the sac salvageable.H e moved her to another tank while i was there he had been getting ready to do that but hadnt disturbed her because of the sac.Some folks dont have the time or the setup for temp and humidity control,which is why i made the offer.pdrakes a good guy and new to the hobby i intend on showing him some things when i return the babies to him so next time he can do it,but i had my rugrats with me and couldnt stay for a long discussion,as my 3 yr old was freaking out over a harmless little puppy lol.and he wanted to explore pdrakes house lol. i think the temperature issue is whats going on with seans usumbara sac,that is if its viable,jon showed up over at pdrakes as wel for a tricolor scorp pdrake was trading him maybe we 3 should start a sin city tarantula society,lol.

 

[arachnopunks]

IMO, the less you do the better the results with incubating eggsacs. Johnny has rigged up all sorts of incubating devices. The best results we have had have been using deli cups or gladware of some sort. We punch holes in the bottom if the smaller container, put a paper towel inside and add the eggsack. Really, this has been all we have done sometimes and it works well. If you are in a dry area (we live in HUMID FL!!), you could put this container inside a larger one with a little moistened substrate. Once you have this set up, you can gently cut open the eggsac and peak inside. Hopefully you will find eggs w/legs or even 1st instar spiderlings. If you find eggs, look for firm, cream colored, round ones. Dead ones and infertiles will wrinkle up and turn darker. IMO, If you have eggs, it is best to leave them inside the sac for a while and watch for development. Good luck.


-Jill

 

[esmoot]

Originally posted by Steve Nunn
Honestly, incubating a sac is so damn easy I couldn't see why anyone would need to ship one anywhere??? I'm not bagging your offer Zumm, but if you've done this a lot you'll know how easy it is. Wouldn't it make more sense to show these people how it's done exactly, in the hope they will try it again and again and again??

Hell, to be honest I've thrown sacs in a small tub with some dirt and they've hatched (one week from sac production)!!! They hardly need turning at all, a little humidity and you're away, it really is that simple. Of course you could build simple incubators and because of fungus I'd recommend this and not the tub of dirt

Try it yourselves guys, it's really not that difficult at all.

Steve

I think you post is a bit misleading, though I’m sure not intentionally. A lot of people could read you post and end up with loosing otherwise good egg sacks.

There is a huge difference between a day old, a week old and a month old egg sack. It is much easier to care for a month old egg sack then a just laid one. It is not damn easy to care for a day or sack and does take care several times a day. People really need that clarification.

How do you normally incubate your egg sacks Steve?

 

[DR zuum]

Well heres the thing,ive tried a lot of different setups as well for eggsacs ive been at this a looooong time,my incubators are variations of my own design on the original mckee model,ive studied mycology,botany,herbalism,chemistry,entomology(which is what im working toward getting some degrees in) ive even done zooanthellae grafts on live coral, bred and experimented with countless aquatic inverts and terrestrial inverts and believe it or not ive brought a bit of something from each to bear on this work im doing with T's.

True a simple setup will do for hatching sacks and for someone with experience and knowing what to look for and expect, its not a hard task.But please dont paint that picture like theres nothing to it.if youve been breeding for any real amount of time or with various species you know better than that,like i said low tech simple methods are great,but whats your yield the size of your offspring believe me it can be manipulated through the right techniques?

I get every time 90% to 100% hatch with less than 3% death moulting to 2nd instar,and im not just talking trash.low tech is good i used it throughout my teenage yrs for hatching,but to stay low tech and not move forward and improve on each step that you can is stagnation to me.From diet of parents,to creating my own eggsacs with webbing that i crosspatch for sacs with damaged eggs or mold on them with some viable eggs still inside, im a experimenter/researcher more than a keeper/breeder and i constantly try to improve my methods in any way i can for optimum results.

Im not trying to put anybody down or offend any one hey if it works for you and youre happy with your results thats all that matters,and i respect anyones experience as we've all got different ones.But i always strive to improve and refine my tecnique. whether it be disease,infections,molds,or even microsporidian blood parasites i take it to the bridge and the cutting edge.

My offer was made with nothing but good intention for those that want to take advantage of it,it wasnt meant to be a whos got the best incubation method or theory,im going to do my utmost to give pdrake as close to a 100% hatch as i can even though the sac was in adverse conditions and underdeveloped,why ?because hes a good guy interested in keeping T's and hatching out this sac and im more than happy to lend a hand and show him some techniques when i return it to him.My word is bond.

 

[pdrake]

i felt really, really bad. she seemed really upset. i gave her a cricket after you left and she jumped right on it. i just held her and she still seemed really docile.

i just still feel bad, i bet she misses her babies.

dr zuum was very cool. there was no arrogance or anything. his offer is genuine. everyone wins. some people are actually good in the world.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by esmoot
It is not damn easy to care for a day or sack and does take care several times a day. People really need that clarification.

How do you normally incubate your egg sacks Steve?

LOL, ok. I've only ever used the most basic of incubators, tubing with air holes top and bottom, verm on the floor, 1" shim placed between the layer of soft cloth and the lid and that's about it. As for taking care of the sac several times a day I don't know why you believe this, but I don't care for mine that much and have an extremely high success rate. I'm not talking 10-20 sacs, but quite a few more then that, so I'm full well aware of how successful I am with it.

To top it off I hate removing any sac from the parent and only do so if the sac is either neglected or the mother looks like eating it. I know people may wish to incubate theirs and that's their option. Maybe my way of doing things is no good for ya??? That's cool, I'm sure your way is good for you and I can respect that, I take back my harsh criticism, LOL.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[DR zuum]

They'll be home soon bro,but hatched,your a good guy your concern shows that no doubt.but at the low temp and in that enviornment with mold everywhere i doubt if they would have been salvagable if left there for another week or so,they should be at the eggs with legs stage by now after a full month,theyre not,look at it like this you just helped her out,shes in a new tank and the babies are going to make it.

When i bring them back im going to show you how to do some things with egg sacs and insure a good hatch.so next time you can do it. On another note the low temp is probably what saved her and the sac from the mold if it was at a higher temp it would probably have gone to spore stage.And thats a really nice tank you had her in, id dump that moldy substrate and reset that up.Not at all steve i used to leave the sacs with the parents too, long ago,but i found i could get bigger yields and control temp and humidity more precisely if i did it.

As to turning the sacs i try to collect right after they are made as the sperm is released with the eggs into the sac by turning it you get a better saturation of the sperm onto the eggs after that its so the eggs dont clump and you get the leftover egg clumps in the sac that dont hatch.I have almost no left over egg waste or clumping since i began the turning technique i read it in schultz's book( the tarantula keepers guide) but i didnt subscribe to it,as i got good result without it,until i tried it and saw that more eggs hatched,leaving less unhatched.So the schultz's knew what they were talking about.

Nothing wrong with leaving it with the parents if all is going well and you get results that make you happy i can respect that view.Have you ever done any work with the funnel webs down there id be interested in hearing some of your experience if you have.