What to do with tarantula hybrids?

[CladeArthropoda]

So, obviously, breeding hybrids on purpose is not good. But what if you get them on accident? I heard some people kill the egg sack. I don't like this idea. You shouldn't breed hybrids in the first place, but if they're already there, why kill them? What good does that do? I think you should just care for them, but make extra sure no hybrids appear in the future.

This is mainly about tarantulas, but it can be applied to other animals as well.

 

[TyjTheMighty]

I think most ppl that get hybrids get them by accident, probably as a sling and not an entire eggsac. In that case, you already have a cute T, why not raise it and learn something. But that's all you should do with a hybrid. IF you somehow knowingly get an entire sac of hybrids, you could keep one or two just for yourself, but for the sake of the hobby it would be best just to freeze the others imo..

 

[CladeArthropoda]

I think most ppl that get hybrids get them by accident, probably as a sling and not an entire eggsac. In that case, you already have a cute T, why not raise it and learn something. But that's all you should do with a hybrid. IF you somehow knowingly get an entire sac of hybrids, you could keep one or two just for yourself, but for the sake of the hobby it would be best just to freeze the others imo..

Why freeze them? It's not like it's gonna destroy the whole hobby.

 

[KezyGLA]

You have to ask yourself this, would you keep and rear a whole eggsac of hybrids to adulthood and beyond? Thats probably hundreds of specimens. If you give them away or sell them they will end up circulating in the hobby and messing up the gene pools.

 

[Nightstalker47]

Just don't breed it, simple as that, nothing wrong with owning a hybrid unless you have the wrong intentions...

 

[followotherness]

I think it would be an interesting chance to experiment if you did happen to already have a sack of hybrids. Hybrids between different species are generally infertile... but what if they weren't? This would also be an interesting opportunity to observe the phenotype expression of each species morphological traits. If all the slings were allowed to grow you could observe and document their variations. Would they all have the same traits from one species or different traits from each? Would they present with entirely new traits?

If they were found to be infertile (like they would most likely be) there wouldn't be any danger of muddying gene pools if you sold them off. I think in that case the main issue would be one of ethics - many interspecies pairings lead to offspring with some pretty horrific genetic defects.

 

[EulersK]

Hybrids between different species are generally infertile

This is simply untrue. We know for a fact that several Brachypelma hybrids are fertile, and the fact is that there isn't much data beyond that. Hybridizing spiders may or may not lead to infertile offspring, but to say that they're "generally" infertile is false.

The point is that hybridizing, say, a B. smithi and a B. emilia will yield hundreds spiders that will literally live for decades. Do you truly intend on keeping these spiders for that long? Where would you even have the room for them? And what if something happens to you? No, those spiders will almost certainly find their way into the hobby eventually. That's the issue we have here.

But, to answer your original question, I've got a shelf of hybrids that I've gotten from various sources. I got all of them as juveniles or adults. One of the adults produced a sac, and the sac was put into the freezer immediately. I have no intention of raising hybrids, but the older ones are a different story. If I were unable to care for them anymore, they would all be euthanized without exception. In my will, I've got a list of people to reach out to that would take my other spiders. But in that same section I have clear instructions to euthanize the hybrids.

 

[Moakmeister]

This is simply untrue. We know for a fact that several Brachypelma hybrids are fertile, and the fact is that there isn't much data beyond that. Hybridizing spiders may or may not lead to infertile offspring, but to say that they're "generally" infertile is false.

The point is that hybridizing, say, a B. smithi and a B. emilia will yield hundreds spiders that will literally live for decades. Do you truly intend on keeping these spiders for that long? Where would you even have the room for them? And what if something happens to you? No, those spiders will almost certainly find their way into the hobby eventually. That's the issue we have here.

But, to answer your original question, I've got a shelf of hybrids that I've gotten from various sources. I got all of them as juveniles or adults. One of the adults produced a sac, and the sac was put into the freezer immediately. I have no intention of raising hybrids, but the older ones are a different story. If I were unable to care for them anymore, they would all be euthanized without exception. In my will, I've got a list of people to reach out to that would take my other spiders. But in that same section I have clear instructions to euthanize the hybrids.

Aw, geez, man. You'd euthanize them? Just because they're hybrids? The hobby form of the B. albopilosum is all hybrids. They shouldn't be discounted as living things because of that. Just don't breed one if you get one.

 

[Walker253]

A known hybrid, like said above, don't breed it. Also, if you sell it, sell it as a hybrid with the discussion to the buyer about them not breeding it either. If the person doesn't agree, they don't get to buy it.

 

[Ellenantula]

For a single hybrid, I suppose I would just label the enclosure well, in case something happened to me and others found homes for my Ts. Dunno for sure since I don't think I've got a hybrid.

For a viable sack -- I'd freeze them. I cannot control the lives of hundreds of Ts and ensure they never enter the gene pool.
Freeze them and learn from the mistake.

 

[EulersK]

Aw, geez, man. You'd euthanize them? Just because they're hybrids? The hobby form of the B. albopilosum is all hybrids. They shouldn't be discounted as living things because of that. Just don't breed one if you get one.

I can't guarantee what would happen to them if I wasn't around, and the life of a single bug is less important than ensuring bad genes don't pollute the hobby.

I may be a bit jaded with this, and I certainly don't speak for anyone but myself. The whole "it's a living creature" argument doesn't really work with me when it comes to invertebrates. They should absolutely be taken care of and respected, I don't argue that. But people tend to get a little full of themselves - let's be honest for a second, they're bugs. They're wildly fascinating bugs, but bugs nonetheless. A single frozen hybrid traded for the insurance that it will never reproduce. I'll take that trade any day.

 

[Anoplogaster]

Uh oh..... another thread on hybrids

Hobbyist perspective: If you have a known hybrid, don't breed it. As stated above, there is no evidence that hybrids are "likely to be infertile." So don't assume that by any means. If you end up with a sac of known hybrids, that's your own fault. Use them as feeders or so something. Why waste the biomass?

Biologist perspective: Now, I wouldn't be a proper scientist without looking at the other side of this coin. Truthfully, there is no way to positively determine that any individual has or lacks a hybridized genotype. Just because an animal possesses the characteristics of a wild type doesn't mean they necessarily carry "pure" genes. Unless you've sequenced their tissue, no one can ever be 100% certain if they're not the one who physically plucked it from the wild. As a matter of fact, many of our beloved species may actually be results of hybrid speciation at some point in evolution anyways.

 

[nicodimus22]

I think you should just care for them

It sounds as if you have no idea how many tarantulas come out of a sack and the logistics involved in housing and taking care of that many for their entire lives (decades for many species.)

 

[TyjTheMighty]

Aw, geez, man. You'd euthanize them? Just because they're hybrids? The hobby form of the B. albopilosum is all hybrids. They shouldn't be discounted as living things because of that. Just don't breed one if you get one.

To be fair, I think hobby forms of any T is a problem. Just because we have some doesn't mean we need more

 

[sasker]

How does one produce an entire egg sack with hybrids by accident? Do you keep your tarantulas all in one big enclosure, all species together?

But people tend to get a little full of themselves - let's be honest for a second, they're bugs.

I totally agree with this. Tarantulas are not people. They don't even compare to cats and dogs. Why is it that people get so emotional about tarantulas? What do you feed your spiders with? Cucumber? Because how can you be so heartless and feed your tarantulas with those cute, little dubia roaches? Of course, we form a one-sided bond with the spiders we have a long time in our care. But I don't get why we should adopt an 'every spider is precious and must be protected'-attitude. I view wildlife preservation as one of the tasks of a tarantula keeper. Natural habitats are being destroyed, spiders disappear in the wild (yes, also because of the pet trade). It is our task to at least try to preserve the species we have and not just individual spiders.

 

[viper69]

So, obviously, breeding hybrids on purpose is not good. But what if you get them on accident? I heard some people kill the egg sack. I don't like this idea. You shouldn't breed hybrids in the first place, but if they're already there, why kill them? What good does that do? I think you should just care for them, but make extra sure no hybrids appear in the future.

This is mainly about tarantulas, but it can be applied to other animals as well.

1. Most species the average hobbyist can breed produce a few hundred to over 1,000 babies. The average life span of a female is 15-25+ years just as a conservative range.

2. Are you going to keep 500 adults for that long? If so, more power to you.

3. If not, then someone with all those hybrids is bound to sell/give them away to people who may or may care, or even know said T is hybrid.

4. That person breeds hybrid and produces more hybrids--- I don't want a FRANKENT, I want a pure bred.

5. In doing the above, the tarantula hobby become polluted with unpure bloodlines.

If you have more questions about hybrids, do yourself a favor and go to Dendroboards.com and ask the Poison Dart Frog owners what they think of hybrids, and why.

 

[EulersK]

4. That person breeds hybrid and produces more hybrids--- I don't want a FRANKENT, I want a pure bred.

This does it for me. Succinct, to the point. It's a humanistic desire to have perfection. Having a genetically pure tarantula is desirable to a mutt.

If you have more questions about hybrids, do yourself a favor and go to Dendroboards.com and ask the Poison Dart Frog owners what they think of hybrids, and why.

I'm actually going to pursue this, thanks for the lead.

 

[campj]

Turn them into the best darn Thanksgiving feast your family has ever had.

 

[viper69]

I'm actually going to pursue this, thanks for the lead.

For some "reason/s" the PDF community seems to value pure bloodlines far more than the tarantula community. I've noticed this over the course of ten plus years.

It's an issue of debate here regularly, it isn't over there. I have some ideas on this difference, but I have no data to support my thoughts.

 

[Sana]

I would honestly be willing to take five or six hybrids and raise them without breeding them if I knew they were hybrids ahead of time. I would think that other hobbyists might feel the same way. I would be heartbroken to euthanize an entire egg sac. I think there are other solutions between euthanizing them and raising a sac of a few hundred plus eggs on your own.