Wax worms

SteelSpider

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Was wondering if anyone uses or has used wax worms for feeding? As I stated in my p. metallica post it ate one for the first time after turning down crickets.

Just wondering if they are a good source. Local pet store was out of crickets at the time
 

scottyk

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Waxworms, and variety in general are both good things...

I feed roaches primarily, but if I'm at the pet store anyway will sometimes pick up a treat for them. Mine have all taken waxworms, butterworms, crickets, superworms etc.

I have no hard data to back it up, but I do make a special effort to get supplemental foods to growing slings and females I want to breed. Certainly the nutritional variety can't hurt, and it is more than likely beneficial...

Scott
 

Mushroom Spore

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Waxworms are good for many things...as a treat. They're REALLY high in fat! But they shouldn't be fed too often unless you're trying to get some weight back on a malnourished animal or something.
 

CodeWilster

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BE CAREFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Waxworms are a great treat for T's but watch yourself! They are almost ALWAYS packed in cups full of pine shavings and pine is toxic to spiders. I lost a big beautiful Chilo to just one small waxworm treat. I usually rinse waxworms because of this but water does not get rid of most of the pine oils. If you want to use these guys, quarantine them in a different substrate for as long as you can. What's weird is I used to feed these to slings once a month for a couple months and the first (and only) to die was a 6" C. guangxiensis. Apparently some spiders are more sensitive than others. Either way, you don't want to lose a beautiful P. metallica to a silly worm treat, that would be learning the hard way like me :(
 

white_feather

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I only have four Ts that would be big enough to eat waxworms. They come 50 to a cup. How long can they be kept in the cup? I would need about ten weeks at a minimum to feed them to my Ts.
 

CodeWilster

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I only have four Ts that would be big enough to eat waxworms. They come 50 to a cup. How long can they be kept in the cup? I would need about ten weeks at a minimum to feed them to my Ts.
They are one of the tough ones to keep alive. They don't refridgerate well. I think about two weeks is usually what they last if kept in the fridge. I've personally and have heard from others, that periodically allowing them to thaw and "wiggle" several times a week will make them last much longer. I'm pretty sure ten weeks is too long to keep them in the fridge though, even outside the fridge. They'd probably die or turn into moths by then lol but I wouldn't know because I bought the 25 count cups and used them in about two weeks or so. Don't forget to be careful if they are kept in pine shavings. Ever since my sad Chilo incident I'm going to start experimenting with these things, but with sooooo many other types of foods available I pretty much will say to everybody else, why bother.
 

desertdweller

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Thanks Code. Really good information. Pine is not good for lots of animals. Question comes up for me here. Is it bad to use pine bark?? in their tanks? I'm talking small amounts here. There would be no ingestion so I figured it'd be ok. What do you think?
 

squinn

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Like anything else you are what you eat, or rather in this case your T is what your feeder eats. Waxworms can be a bit tougher to gut load (although by no means impossible) than roaches and crickets. Pulling out waxworms that have been kept without outside food for a week or more probably isn't going to be the most healthy feeder available. They should be gutloaded with prepared honey mixtures (keep in mind where waxworms live in the wild) prior to feeding to T's or reptiles.
 

aluras

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I use them, on occasion. I feed them (with other greens) to my turtles so I have them around. They seem to eat them up, But they are small (waxworms) so I only feed them to the slings,,,,plus the fattyness of them makes it ok for a "Treat"
 

CodeWilster

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Well nobody can be 100% sure about everything. But I bought the spider as a WC adult female at about 6". It had a pretty shriveled abdomen and was an eating machine. It went through dozens of crickets, mealworms, a couple of earth worms, a pinky mouse, and the last thing it ate was a little waxworm, maybe two I can't remember. Anyway, the next day when I tried to feed it it was not interested in any food. Over a period of about 3 days after that last feeding it started acting very strange, and still would not eat. It would go into threat pose over absolutley nothing. It would fall over on its back but would keep kicking and biting like something was attacking it. It would often get back on its feet then lay as low as possible, then would out of nowhere (like if I even slightly bumped the cage) would repeat the process of spaztically (is that a word?) flipping over biting kicking and just literally flipping out all over the cage then eventually losing energy and would lay either upside down, on it's side; anywhere but right side up. By the fourth day I found it upside down dead (NOT molting).
The oils in pine are often used as pesticides, and this chemical is very effective in killing spiders, causing neurological problems from the poison (my T's problem was definitely neurological). The waxworm(s) was the very last thing I fed her and without changing her environment (high humidity moderate heat etc) she died within four days of that meal. Could have been a shaving stuck to the waxworm, maybe just pine oils, or the spider had a history of neurological schizophrenic problems in her family or something I don't know for sure. The facts sure pointed to the pine though. I contacted the dealer I got the spider from and he said he would bet big money it was because of exposure to pine. Either way, the moral of this story and thread is be careful with waxworms because they are usually packed in pine shavings which are for certain toxic to tarantulas.
 

CodeWilster

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Thanks Code. Really good information. Pine is not good for lots of animals. Question comes up for me here. Is it bad to use pine bark?? in their tanks? I'm talking small amounts here. There would be no ingestion so I figured it'd be ok. What do you think?
I simply wouldn't risk it. I can't say it would kill them but I will not say it's good either. What's funny is if you read my Chilo story above it sounds like pine can have devastating effects on T's, however I had been feeding waxworms occasionally to many of my other T's before the Chilo with no problems, including many Brachys, Pokies, and some other tropical OW and NW species slings and adults. I'm guessing this means some are much more sensitive than others, I don't really know. There could have been a monster pine flake stuck to the waxworm and it was ingested (another question, does T venom break down cellulose at all?). I don't think waxworms eat it either though, because like someone mentioned above waxworms eat honey, living in bee's honeycomb until they mature. As for keeping pine, I wouldn't at all. If you want to go with wood chips for whatever reason use safe wood like cypress, but avoid pine and cedar.

If you were wondering if pine BARK was safe I'd say no because I'm pretty sure that the highest concentrations of the toxic chemical dangerous to T's and other animals are found highest in the pine sap. (Which is on the bark too).
 

Mushroom Spore

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Pine isn't toxic because animals EAT it, I don't know where you guys are getting that. Pine (as well as cedar) is toxic because of the chemical fumes it gives off.

http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html (This particular link may be on a rat site, but it also discusses the effects on humans and other animals.)
 

CodeWilster

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Pine isn't toxic because animals EAT it, I don't know where you guys are getting that. Pine (as well as cedar) is toxic because of the chemical fumes it gives off.

http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html (This particular link may be on a rat site, but it also discusses the effects on humans and other animals.)
I'm certain most of the cases involved in death and/or symptoms from pine exposure were due to inhaling it orally (book-lungly?). However, since we are getting into chemistry, "phenol" is lethal if consumed also. To me it's logic that if something inhaled is harmful then consuming it or its source completely is probably just as bad if not worse. So if you are up to it, eat a bunch of pine shavings and watch your liver enzymes skyrocket, your respiratory system break down, and, last nights dinner come all the way back up. On the flip side, it's fiber? :D

Here's another link from an "Air Toxins" site, even there it says consumption of phenol [found in high levels in pine] can kill a human:

http://www.lakes-environmental.com/toxic/PHENOL.HTML

[Scroll down to the "acute effects" section]

Oh and it's soluble in water too, so it can be consumed this way also ;) Either way whether it's consumed by a human or inhaled by a spider, it can be deadly and should be avoided. So, glad you brought that up because that would answer desertdweller's question better than I. But anyway, to sum this up, pieces of driftwood and cork look much better than wood chips IMO anyway. Avoid pine and cedar.
 

Mushroom Spore

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I'm certain most of the cases involved in death and/or symptoms from pine exposure were due to inhaling it orally (book-lungly?). However, since we are getting into chemistry, "phenol" is lethal if consumed also.
Well, yeah. But the post/s I was responding to (especially desertdweller's) were about ingestion, which isn't the real concern. Hers went so far as "the tarantula won't ingest it so it's totally safe right?"

I just wanted to make it very clear to any easily confused newbies reading the thread that pine is unsafe whether you think your spider will somehow eat it or not. :)
 
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