Very Cool Cyclocosmia sp

[KenTheBugGuy]

Very excited...hope I can get them breeding if we have any males. Been wanting these for some time now and finally got ahold of a batch of them. THey are just awesome THey have a tribal looking symbol on thier back ends and use it to plug thier hole for protection.

Good article
http://rmbr.nus.edu.sg/rbz/biblio/54/54rbz119-124.pdf

Pictures taken by Mike(Troll) and posted with permission.

 

[cacoseraph]

crazy crazy bug butt action there



are these the chinese ones?

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

chinese

crazy crazy bug butt action there



are these the chinese ones?

Yup they are.

 

[cacoseraph]

Yup they are.

nicest way EVER of saying RTFM


(the link he provided and i ignored is a sweet little paper on *Chinese* plugbutt trapdoors =P )



edit:
ooh, baby. a key. going to key them out? if you post pics it could be a good example of how importing dealers can do things right

assuming it is one of the two in the paper, could be easy and counting plug butt ribs... otherwise scoping out the spermethecae when one sheds (or dies...)

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

nicest way EVER of saying RTFM


(the link he provided and i ignored is a sweet little paper on *Chinese* plugbutt trapdoors =P )



edit:
ooh, baby. a key. going to key them out? if you post pics it could be a good example of how importing dealers can do things right

We are going to key them out actually. We are pretty sure we have a couple of one species and many of the Ricketti but we need to go and count the ribs still. Just have a to find a night where we can take pictures and label them all to match them back up to the pictures after them.

 

[cacoseraph]

and that is the down side to keying... taking meticulous pics, not mixing up what pics go with what specimens, etc




i'm looking at:
http://research.amnh.org/iz/spiders/catalog/CTENIZIDAE.html
and for gen. Cyclocosmia i see:
lannaensis Schwendinger, 2005....................China, Thailand
latusicosta Zhu, Zhang & Zhang, 2006....................China
ricketti (Pocock, 1901)....................China
and maybe
siamensis Schwendinger, 2005....................Thailand




SCHWENDINGER, Peter J. Two new Cyclocosmia (Araneae: Ctenizidae) from Thailand
abstract etc:

Two new Cyclocosmia (Araneae: Ctenizidae) from Thailand. - Two new species of the peculiar trapdoor spider
genus Cyclocosmia, C. siamensis sp. n. and C. lannaensis sp. n., are described from male and female specimens
collected in Thailand and are compared with C. ricketti (Pocock) from China. Notes are given on taxonomic
characters, variation, relationships, biology and the distribution of all three species.
Keywords: Cyclocosmia - C. ricketti - C. siamensis - C. lannaensis - new species - taxonomy - Thailand - trans-
Pacific disjunction - biology.

you have latusicosta and ricketti already. you could do a complete key for the known species of that genus with this other paper

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

yah

and that is the down side to keying... taking meticulous pics, not mixing up what pics go with what specimens, etc

Tis a pain but man I am just happy to have these guys and really want to breed them so definately going to take the time to figure out thier species....especially since that article gave me a fairly easy way to do it.

 

[cacoseraph]

actually yeah, that article you linked discusses a ton of differences between all four of those species... and compares them to the american cousins


heck of an article


edit:

C. lannaensis is the only one of the four that has more complex spermethecae. the other three have more simple parallel straight tube types. lanna has more involved wasp wasted endings.

C. rick and C. latu have smooth disc ribs that lack setae, the lanna and siam are more hairy =P


edit2:

so, i think the only ambiguity that could exist is between lanna and siam. in theory you should not be in range of siamensis... so you are basically good to go, i think

it should be unambiguous for all.

lanna = only one with goofy sperme's
siamensis = hairy w/o goofy sperme's
latu and ricket are subject of paper



and all just normal macro shots, hopefully... no messing around with a microscope necessary if you have adult female sheds or disecteds. microscope pics would be AWESOME, though.

... i need to get a microscope

 

[cacoseraph]

*Ahem*

the simpler spermethecae'ed species are prime for being er, force bred or manually bred if the male gets munched. worth thinking about if you might have a highly finite amount of mature males

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

interesting

*Ahem*

the simpler spermethecae'ed species are prime for being er, force bred or manually bred if the male gets munched. worth thinking about if you might have a highly finite amount of mature males

Thats interesting I will have to call and talk to you about that more just in case....

 

[billopelma]

I was at a reptile show yesterday and one dealer had a batch of chinese imports
including one of these that I found interesting enough to snap a pic of.
This one looks to be C. ricketti according to the key...

Bill

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

I was at a reptile show yesterday and one dealer had a batch of chinese imports
including one of these that I found interesting enough to snap a pic of.
This one looks to be C. ricketti according to the key...


Bill

Yup I count about 28 ribs which would mean most likely Ricketti

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

curious

I was at a reptile show yesterday Bill

What show and do you remember who? Just curious who else has these guys.

 

[cacoseraph]

the sworl work on their backend looks like a sort of four nostril demon baboon to me

i wonder if there is enough individual variation to make a backend shot like that a "fingerprint"?


i notice on bill's that there is a bifurcation on the second rib from the top on the right hand side. that is classic fingerprint identification point of similarity type stuff!

edit:
hell, i was just thinking. with the fact the key gives a rib count RANGE for both species i bet there is a pretty darn large amount of individual variability. would be interesting, maybe, to track rib counts and see if there is anything there. through maybe ranges, offsprings, etc

 

[billopelma]

What show and do you remember who? Just curious who else has these guys.

Show was in Manchester NH. Sorry, don't know the name of the dealer, was one of the larger ones there. Did mostly reptiles, inverts where largely typical WC imports with typical common names...

Bill

 

[BiologicalJewels]

"butt" being convex or concave... kind of a biggie if you only have two chinese species... it's either laticosta or ricketti

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

yup

"butt" being convex or concave... kind of a biggie if you only have two chinese species... it's either laticosta or ricketti

yup..thats why what we used first now we have to count ribs to make sure

 

[billopelma]

I may have jumped the gun on this ID...
Though the rib count would seem to point to ricketti, it has the raised area in the upper muscle impressions as in latusicosta (if I'm understanding the description properly). It also states that there are two ribs running dorsoventrally with 20-23 ribs radially on either side. So if you don't count the top and bottom ribs it gets close to 23... Plus the convex caudal disc...

Bill

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

Id

I may have jumped the gun on this ID...
Though the rib count would seem to point to ricketti, it has the raised area in the upper muscle impressions as in latusicosta (if I'm understanding the description properly). It also states that there are two ribs running dorsoventrally with 20-23 ribs radially on either side. So if you don't count the top and bottom ribs it gets close to 23... Plus the convex caudal disc...

Bill

As far as I can tell it was 27 minus the 2 and still 25. I plan on taking pictures of all mine and will eventually post them here so we can all compare what I think is ID'ed correctly. That will maybe give us a better chance if we can find both species in my group of what the 2 really look like and the differences.

 

[syndicate]

Neat spiders!
If I ever get down to Florida I'd love to try and find some Cyclocosmia torreya!
Good luck breeding them over there Ken!I'd love to see an image of a mature male if you have any.
-Chris