Very Concerned for my Grammostola rosea

[TheUnfleshedOne]

For the past week my G. rosea has been exhibiting strange behavior. She is my first and only spider and I've had her since around 2011 or so. The past few days she began walking in an odd way. Normally she moves quite slowly and calmly around the enclosure, but lately it almost seems like she's running from something. In addition, her movements have seemed very odd and uncoordinated, almost like she's drunk and stumbling. Tripping over her own legs. It has only gotten worse with time.

Today, it's gotten so bad that I fear she wont live long. I would be surprised if she makes it through the night. She keeps trying to climb the enclosure, but is too weak to climb the glass. Then she winds up falling on her back and can't get up unless I help her up with the aid of a brush. Then she stumbles over to the glass and tries to climb again, only to wind up toppling over.

I know this isn't molting, since tarantulas tend to become more lethargic when in pre molt, not more frantic and skittish. I also would doubt she is molting, since she molted in June and she is an older spider (She was at least six years old when I first got her, and she was an adult when her original owner acquired her). In the time that I've owned her, I've only had her molt four times.

At this point, I doubt she will survive, but any advice that could save her would be appreciated. I would also like to know what might be killing her. The symptoms seem to relate to DKS, but I've heard some people call DKS a myth or a nebul

 

[Vanessa]

DKS is not a myth - it's just not condition unto it's own - it is a symptom of another ailment. Common causes of DKS behaviour include, but aren't limited to, chemical poisoning, exposure to pesticides or insecticides, extreme heat exposure.
Has anyone be spraying for insects outside? Do you have cats, or dogs, that get treated for fleas/ticks/heartworm? Do you have snakes that are being treated for mites? Was the enclosure next to a heat source, or in direct sunlight?
A photo of her, and her complete setup, would be helpful as well.

 

[TheUnfleshedOne]

DKS is not a myth - it's just not condition unto it's own - it is a symptom of another ailment. Common causes of DKS behaviour include, but aren't limited to, chemical poisoning, exposure to pesticides or insecticides, extreme heat exposure.
Has anyone be spraying for insects outside? Do you have cats, or dogs, that get treated for fleas/ticks/heartworm? Do you have snakes that are being treated for mites? Was the enclosure next to a heat source, or in direct sunlight?
A photo of her, and her complete setup, would be helpful as well.

Ah, I see. I was unaware of what its exact nature was. I only found out about it once she began exhibiting symptoms and I began to do research.

As far as I know, no one at my house has sprayed for bugs in the last ten years. As for pets, my mom as two dogs she brings over when she visits, but they aren't being treated. There are stray cats that live in the back yard that my cousin is in the process of capturing to have neutered/spayed, but I do not know if the vet treats them with any anti-parasite medication. As four a direct heat source, I'd say no. I have no heat lamp, and while she is next to a window, the window's curtains are closed at all times and vines cover the outside. However, I do live in Phoenix, so it can get quite hot. Below is an image of my setup. I know it's not ideal, but it's the best I had with my limited resources.

 

[Arachnophoric]

Ah, I see. I was unaware of what its exact nature was. I only found out about it once she began exhibiting symptoms and I began to do research.

As far as I know, no one at my house has sprayed for bugs in the last ten years. As for pets, my mom as two dogs she brings over when she visits, but they aren't being treated. There are stray cats that live in the back yard that my cousin is in the process of capturing to have neutered/spayed, but I do not know if the vet treats them with any anti-parasite medication. As four a direct heat source, I'd say no. I have no heat lamp, and while she is next to a window, the window's curtains are closed at all times and vines cover the outside. However, I do live in Phoenix, so it can get quite hot. Below is an image of my setup. I know it's not ideal, but it's the best I had with my limited resources.

Dunno if a fall injury could be attributing to her behavior, but that enclosure has way too much height for it to be safe for a terrestrial T. A fall from the top could easily rupture the abdomen or cause internal damage.

Again, no clue if an internal injury would cause this particular behavior, but that's the most obvious hazard I can see.

 

[TheUnfleshedOne]

Dunno if a fall injury could be attributing to her behavior, but that enclosure has way too much height for it to be safe for a terrestrial T. A fall from the top could easily rupture the abdomen or cause internal damage.

Again, no clue if an internal injury would cause this particular behavior, but that's the most obvious hazard I can see.

Oh, I am very aware of the height problem. I've just never been able to find a good enclosure for her. All the ones at the pet stores I've visited tend to be either way to big or too small. That was the same enclosure that she was gifted to me in (Old neighbor in my home town had to get rid of her because his new girlfriend was agoraphobic). I always wanted to give her a new one, but I always lacked the skills to build one myself and never found a good one for sale that met he requirements.

As for her falls, she rarely climbed, but so far never really fell. Still, it is a possibility and is one that I've feared for quite some time.

 

[Vanessa]

Yes, I agree that the setup is actually pretty good except for the fact that it poses a fall risk. They can, and will, climb the glass and she could have fallen and caused herself internal injuries - especially if she fell onto the top of that hide. She should have been provided with a lot more substrate in an enclosure of that height - they should not be allowed to fall more than a couple of inches.
You can check to see if she is bleeding from her abdomen anywhere, but there isn't much else that you can do. Move her to another enclosure, or add more substrate to this one, in case she pulls through.

 

[Arachnophoric]

Oh, I am very aware of the height problem. I've just never been able to find a good enclosure for her. All the ones at the pet stores I've visited tend to be either way to big or too small. That was the same enclosure that she was gifted to me in (Old neighbor in my home town had to get rid of her because his new girlfriend was agoraphobic). I always wanted to give her a new one, but I always lacked the skills to build one myself and never found a good one for sale that met he requirements.

As for her falls, she rarely climbed, but so far never really fell. Still, it is a possibility and is one that I've feared for quite some time.

It'd have been a simple fix - just compensate the height of the terrarium with extra substrate. May seem like a waste of dirt, but better than coming home to a dead T, IMO. Then just keep it that way until you can get her a new enclosure. There are also several sterilite tubs that are the perfect dimensions for housing tarantulas while being super cheap, but I know some people stay away from those due to aesthetic reasons.

It's easy to say she didn't climb much and therefore hasn't fallen much, but that's just what you've witnessed for yourself with the lights on. Tarantulas are nocturnal and do most of their activity at night/in the dark, when you're sleeping. So it's quite possible she does climb a lot more than you think, and heavy-bodied terrestrials are not the most gifted climbers, as much as they seem to think otherwise.

Really hope that isn't the case and she somehow pulls through, but from the sound of how severe her behavior is, it may already be too late. I don't think there's really much that can be done for her besides putting her in a smaller enclosure/adding more substrate to try and keep her from hurting herself any further and wait out whatever is going on with her.

 

[TheUnfleshedOne]

Yes, I agree that the setup is actually pretty good except for the fact that it poses a fall risk. They can, and will, climb the glass and she could have fallen and caused herself internal injuries - especially if she fell onto the top of that hide. She should have been provided with a lot more substrate in an enclosure of that height - they should not be allowed to fall more than a couple of inches.
You can check to see if she is bleeding from her abdomen anywhere, but there isn't much else that you can do. Move her to another enclosure, or add more substrate to this one, in case she pulls through.

Noted. Should she recover, I shall add more substrate to the enclosure. Try to minimize the clearance from the floor to the roof. If not, I will keep that in mind and try and add as much substrate as possible in my next enclosure. So far I don't see any hemolymph on her body.

One question I did have, is should I try and flip her onto her stomach again? I've done it once with a soft, flat brush, but then she just panics and winds up on her back again. My gut tells me to leave her alone, but any validation would be nice. Regardless, thank you for taking the time to hear me out. Honestly it's just nice to talk to people who care.

It'd have been a simple fix - just compensate the height of the terrarium with extra substrate. May seem like a waste of dirt, but better than coming home to a dead T, IMO. Then just keep it that way until you can get her a new enclosure. There are also several sterilite tubs that are the perfect dimensions for housing tarantulas while being super cheap, but I know some people stay away from those due to aesthetic reasons.

It's easy to say she didn't climb much and therefore hasn't fallen much, but that's just what you've witnessed for yourself with the lights on. Tarantulas are nocturnal and do most of their activity at night/in the dark, when you're sleeping. So it's quite possible she does climb a lot more than you think, and heavy-bodied terrestrials are not the most gifted climbers, as much as they seem to think otherwise.

Really hope that isn't the case and she somehow pulls through, but from the sound of how severe her behavior is, it may already be too late. I don't think there's really much that can be done for her besides putting her in a smaller enclosure/adding more substrate to try and keep her from hurting herself any further and wait out whatever is going on with her.

Aye, I'd considered that. I just rarely had the spending money to go out and get more. I'm a college student and often have a hard time keeping enough finances to eat and pay for school. I'm not trying to make excuses. I know it was a screw up and my fault. But that was just the nature of the situation.

Oh, I have no doubt she climbed around. I had seen her do it a few times. It always made me nervous...but hindsight is 20/20...sadly....

Agreed. And thanks for the advice. Even just talking about it with other people in the hobby is making me feel better.

Anyway, I have to sign off now. I'll update the thread with her condition later today.

It's been a while, and she's still on her back. She has scooted over to the edge of the cage and is trying to flip her self upright again. I want to help her so bad, but I'm afraid she might just injure her self again if she tries flips up, since she tries to run when she is on her stomach

It'd have been a simple fix - just compensate the height of the terrarium with extra substrate. May seem like a waste of dirt, but better than coming home to a dead T, IMO. Then just keep it that way until you can get her a new enclosure. There are also several sterilite tubs that are the perfect dimensions for housing tarantulas while being super cheap, but I know some people stay away from those due to aesthetic reasons.

It's easy to say she didn't climb much and therefore hasn't fallen much, but that's just what you've witnessed for yourself with the lights on. Tarantulas are nocturnal and do most of their activity at night/in the dark, when you're sleeping. So it's quite possible she does climb a lot more than you think, and heavy-bodied terrestrials are not the most gifted climbers, as much as they seem to think otherwise.

Really hope that isn't the case and she somehow pulls through, but from the sound of how severe her behavior is, it may already be too late. I don't think there's really much that can be done for her besides putting her in a smaller enclosure/adding more substrate to try and keep her from hurting herself any further and wait out whatever is going on with her.

As a side note, should I try and right her? She keeps flipping herself onto her back, and can't right herself. Should I leave her be, or try and get her upright?

 

[cold blood]

I just rarely had the spending money to go out and get more. I'm a college student and often have a hard time keeping enough finances to eat and pay for school. I'm not trying to make excuses

This is just that though...an excuse. For about the cost of a can of soda you can buy a 40lb bag of topsoil. Its literally, dirt cheap.

Topsoil

• cold blood
• Dec 29, 2017
• 2

I try and right her

It probably wont matter, but you can try. On its back, you can administer water easier, which could be helpful.

Curious, what was the t being fed? Was it wild caught prey items by chance?

 

[TheUnfleshedOne]

This is just that though...an excuse. For about the cost of a can of soda you can buy a 40lb bag of topsoil. Its literally, dirt cheap.

Topsoil

• cold blood
• Dec 29, 2017
• 2

It probably wont matter, but you can try. On its back, you can administer water easier, which could be helpful.

Curious, what was the t being fed? Was it wild caught prey items by chance?

I fed her exclusively crickets. Most of the time they were store bought, but occasionally I'd catch some from around the garden. I never thought it was much of a problem, since we've never sprayed here as long as I lived this house, and we have no pets. I knew it was a risk...but I'd done it for years without problems. I thought as long as the cricket looked healthy and active the likelihood of her getting sick from one was small.

 

[TheUnfleshedOne]

Well, I've left her on her back all day. She hasn't crumpled up, but also hasn't been able to get up on her own. I've been giving her water droplets about every hour or so. She flails her legs around every so often. Still not looking good, but she doesn't seem to be getting weaker. She even bit at the straw once.

 

[Arachnophoric]

I fed her exclusively crickets. Most of the time they were store bought, but occasionally I'd catch some from around the garden. I never thought it was much of a problem, since we've never sprayed here as long as I lived this house, and we have no pets. I knew it was a risk...but I'd done it for years without problems. I thought as long as the cricket looked healthy and active the likelihood of her getting sick from one was small.

That cricket could have come from anywhere and crawled through anything; including pesticides, if you don't live out in the middle of nowhere and have neighbors. Fertilizers for gardening can have stuff in it that's toxic to your T. It won't necessarily kill the cricket immediately or show signs of being ill. Just because you've done it for years without issues doesn't mean the day won't come where a problem does arise - its possible that day has already come given the current situation. If she recovers from this, I'd advise not feeding wild caught prey. Even if the cricket hasn't been exposed to pesticides, it could have parasites that could hurt or kill your T.

 

[TheUnfleshedOne]

That cricket could have come from anywhere and crawled through anything; including pesticides, if you don't live out in the middle of nowhere and have neighbors. Fertilizers for gardening can have stuff in it that's toxic to your T. It won't necessarily kill the cricket immediately or show signs of being ill. Just because you've done it for years without issues doesn't mean the day won't come where a problem does arise - its possible that day has already come given the current situation. If she recovers from this, I'd advise not feeding wild caught prey. Even if the cricket hasn't been exposed to pesticides, it could have parasites that could hurt or kill your T.

Very true...guess I pushed my luck too far. So far she's still alive, and seems to be more active of late. She's still on her back and can't get herself upright. But she's moving her legs more and doesn't seem to be curling up. I've been giving her water about every hour, and that seems to be helping. I don't want to get my hopes up though. In the future, I will never feed my spider wild caught bugs again. I will strive to make a better enclosure that is more appropriate for the type of spider, and I will keep this all in mind if she doesn't make it. Then at least I can learn something from her passing...

 

[Arachnophoric]

Very true...guess I pushed my luck too far. So far she's still alive, and seems to be more active of late. She's still on her back and can't get herself upright. But she's moving her legs more and doesn't seem to be curling up. I've been giving her water about every hour, and that seems to be helping. I don't want to get my hopes up though. In the future, I will never feed my spider wild caught bugs again. I will strive to make a better enclosure that is more appropriate for the type of spider, and I will keep this all in mind if she doesn't make it. Then at least I can learn something from her passing...

Glad to hear she's still hanging in there, it sounds like you're doing everything you can for her. Really hope she pulls through, as long as she's kicking there's still hope.

 

[TheUnfleshedOne]

Glad to hear she's still hanging in there, it sounds like you're doing everything you can for her. Really hope she pulls through, as long as she's kicking there's still hope.

Thanks friend. That means a lot. I know I wasn't the best owner, but I hope that I can be better for her if she survives. Last time I gave her water she bit the straw. Not sure if that is a good sign or not, but it is something.

 

[darkness975]

Everything has already been covered here, but good luck with the Tarantula.

 

[TheUnfleshedOne]

I think she died last night. She hasn't curled up yet in the traditional fashion...but she shows no response to external stimulus. I even flipped her right side up and she hasn't moved at all in the last twelve hours....Should I wait for her to curl, just to be sure, or does it sound like she's pretty much gone?

 

[Teal]

Oh no... I was hoping for a positive outcome once I reached the end of this thread!
Ts will only go into a "death curl" if they are dehydrated... if she had internal injuries, and since you have been giving her water, your best bet to confirm death is what you've already done - note lack of movement and lack of response. I'm so sorry

his new girlfriend was agoraphobic

What does this have to do with a spider?

 

[TheUnfleshedOne]

Oh no... I was hoping for a positive outcome once I reached the end of this thread!
Ts will only go into a "death curl" if they are dehydrated... if she had internal injuries, and since you have been giving her water, your best bet to confirm death is what you've already done - note lack of movement and lack of response. I'm so sorry



What does this have to do with a spider?

That makes sense. I cried my tears last night. All I can do now is mourn her and learn from my mistakes. I still have to decide what to do with the body. I'm not sure what other T owners do. I'll also start looking into a new T. One that I can do a better job of monitoring and caring for. So if anyone knows a good site for buying them, I'd be interested. She was given to me by a neighbor in my old home town so I don't know what sites are reliable for ordering them or not.

As for the 'his girlfriend was arachnophobic' thing, I was just explaining how she came into my care. I wasn't her first owner. Technically I was her third and last. He got her from a friend, owned her for six years, then his GF made him get rid of her so she could move in. Just giving some background context. Guess it might be me remembering her a little too...

 

[darkness975]

That makes sense. I cried my tears last night. All I can do now is mourn her and learn from my mistakes. I still have to decide what to do with the body. I'm not sure what other T owners do. I'll also start looking into a new T. One that I can do a better job of monitoring and caring for. So if anyone knows a good site for buying them, I'd be interested. She was given to me by a neighbor in my old home town so I don't know what sites are reliable for ordering them or not.

As for the 'his girlfriend was arachnophobic' thing, I was just explaining how she came into my care. I wasn't her first owner. Technically I was her third and last. He got her from a friend, owned her for six years, then his GF made him get rid of her so she could move in. Just giving some background context. Guess it might be me remembering her a little too...

Do you mean the chick was arachnophobic? Agorophobic means a fear of open spaces.