Venomous and Poisonous- exceptions in nature

[viper69]

Meet The World’s Foremost ‘Venomous-Poisonous’ Snake, Revealed In 4 Dazzling Photos

The tiger keelback snake, native to east Asia and Japan, is perhaps the most well-defensed animal known to science. Here’s why.

www.forbes.com

They are gorgeous- google.

 

[goofyGoober99]

Oh my goodness they're adorable

 

[Brewser]

Tiger Keelback Snake is Venomous as well as Klepto toxic / Poisonous, essentially "stealing" poison from toxic prey to reuse/secrete for defense.
In a word... Masterful.

 

[The Snark]

Jury is out on that one.
Rhabdophis tigrinus Colubridae
World Foremost. Sensationalism. Criteria please.
Article lacks scientific words, terms and cites no references.
Venom vs poison. Criteria establishes venoms are glandular secretions. So this particular snake is double endowed one direct and one augmented through what it commonly? eats. It isn't diet restricted to eating venomous amphibians so secondary toxin varies.
Venom of the snake is a hemotoxin. Potentially lethal but the consensus of opinion is neurotoxins, specifically bungaris, causes more deaths per bite - the generally recognized 'most lethal'. Being a rear fanged snake puts Tigrinus out of the running. Rear fangs only inject venom into what it is swallowing.

 

[viper69]

Jury is out on that one.
Rhabdophis tigrinus Colubridae
World Foremost. Sensationalism. Criteria please.
Article lacks scientific words, terms and cites no references.
Venom vs poison. Criteria establishes venoms are glandular secretions. So this particular snake is double endowed one direct and one augmented through what it commonly? eats. It isn't diet restricted to eating venomous amphibians so secondary toxin varies.
Venom of the snake is a hemotoxin. Potentially lethal but the consensus of opinion is neurotoxins, specifically bungaris, causes more deaths per bite - the generally recognized 'most lethal'. Being a rear fanged snake puts Tigrinus out of the running. Rear fangs only inject venom into what it is swallowing.

What are you talking about the jury is out?
What sensationalism are you referring to?

Rear fang has nothing to do if a snake is venomous or not.

Your reply is vague and meandering

 

[The Snark]

What sensationalism are you referring to?

World's foremost what? World's foremost two venom delivery mechanisms snake would be the criteria, I assume. This may very well set this snake apart as unique, an outlier. More data required there for comparison.
But then why not be more accurate, An Extremely Rare/Unusual, Possibly Unique Snake. Doesn't have the catchy Worlds Foremost ring to it.
(I don't mean to sound like I'm looking for errors. But let's get real. Hand in any paper to the instructor in academia world with the words World's Foremost you better be prepared to back that up with a dissertation or get the paper handed back with a "Try again")

Most lethal is generally recognized as deaths per bites. Front fanged snakes aren't restricted to delivering venom to only what it is swallowing. Most deaths from snake bites causing injury or death are from front fanged snakes, either in capturing prey or as defensive reflex.

 

[Frogdaddy]

Gotta admit, when I first read the thread title I thought it said venomous excretions. Also an interesting topic.

Those snakes are cool and beautiful and soon to be exploited I'm sure.

 

[The Snark]

Those snakes are cool and beautiful and soon to be exploited I'm sure.

Many of the viper family are highly colorful with striking patterned markings. Thus their pseudonym carpet vipers. Considering the human penchant for stupidity, by all means let the schmucks go out and collect them. We need more Darwin award candidates.
A little enigma. R Tigrinus is a colubrid, but does not possess the usual sensory pit so it's not in the true pit viper family. But all saw scale snakes inclusive of keelbacks are considered in the viper family. I'm confused.

 

[viper69]

Flat out- you can reply however you want within AB's TOS, and so will I. Your reply was completely pedantic and plain garbage in some places. I am disgusted more than I'm allowed to write in the TOS here.

I drop these quick posts as something cool and informative for people here, no other reason. Of all the things you could have done, you chose lunacy

Jury is out on that one.
Rhabdophis tigrinus Colubridae
World Foremost. Sensationalism. Criteria please.
Article lacks scientific words, terms and cites no references.
Venom vs poison. Criteria establishes venoms are glandular secretions. So this particular snake is double endowed one direct and one augmented through what it commonly? eats. It isn't diet restricted to eating venomous amphibians so secondary toxin varies.
Venom of the snake is a hemotoxin. Potentially lethal but the consensus of opinion is neurotoxins, specifically bungaris, causes more deaths per bite - the generally recognized 'most lethal'. Being a rear fanged snake puts Tigrinus out of the running. Rear fangs only inject venom into what it is swallowing.

The jury is NOT out on this species being both venomous and poisonous. Google is your friend
Sensationalism- Really you have a problem with the writer's choice of words- great go email the author or Forbes No criteria is needed in writing this NON-SCIENTIFIC article.
Venomous refers to toxins being injected, .e.g. fangs, stinger
Poisonous refers to toxins which are delivered passively, e.g. Poison Dart Frogs

SO THE HELL WHAT THAT THE ARTICLE "lacks scientific words, terms and cites no references". so what- like what the hell, you think Forbes is in the business of writing phony articles about reptiles?! This is not a peer-reviewed journal or did that fact escape your pedantic viewpoint If you want scientific data go google!

World's foremost what? World's foremost two venom delivery mechanisms snake would be the criteria, I assume. This may very well set this snake apart as unique, an outlier. More data required there for comparison.
But then why not be more accurate, An Extremely Rare/Unusual, Possibly Unique Snake. Doesn't have the catchy Worlds Foremost ring to it.
(I don't mean to sound like I'm looking for errors. But let's get real. Hand in any paper to the instructor in academia world with the words World's Foremost you better be prepared to back that up with a dissertation or get the paper handed back with a "Try again")

Most lethal is generally recognized as deaths per bite. Front fanged snakes aren't restricted to delivering venom to only what it is swallowing. Most deaths from snake bites causing injury or death are from front fanged snakes, either in capturing prey or as defensive reflex.

Go get your own field data, my god this reply is complete crap. Context is everything, and you have missed the boat completely here.
DUDE this is NOT academia!!!!

Your second reply is also garbage.

More accurate? Accurate is subjective- you're going over the choice of words- WHO CARES!

What does rear-fang vs front fang have to do with anything the article was describing- nothing at all.

Next time you are dissatisfied with one of my posts in the above manner go direct to the source and complain, don't point out all the "faults" of the layman's article which are not faults.

I've never seen such a more ridiculous post, complaining about things that do not matter to the OP (me) who had no control over how it was written- how effective

 

[The Snark]

Venomous refers to toxins being injected, .e.g. fangs, stinger

Possessing a gland that produces a venom.

 

[viper69]

Possessing a gland that produces a venom.

Again, so what

 

[The Snark]

Again, so what

A crucial factor. As I mentioned, E Tigrinus has two venom glands, "Venemous-Poisonous" is incorrect. So what.
I extend my apologies. I simply prefer proper scientific accuracy and terminologies. That which separates science from sensationalism.
Glands and only glands produce venom. It is interesting to note the secondary glands of that snake have no delivery mechanism. Possibly that secondary venom also produces a scent that wards off potential predators. Either way, that secondary venom is only delivered when the snake is .... what? Licked? Eaten? It's protected the same way the amphibian protects itself. Curious.

 

[viper69]

A crucial factor. As I mentioned, E Tigrinus has two venom glands, "Venemous-Poisonous" is incorrect. So what.
I extend my apologies. I simply prefer proper scientific accuracy and terminologies. That which separates science from sensationalism.
Glands and only glands produce venom. It is interesting to note the secondary glands of that snake have no delivery mechanism. Possibly that secondary venom also produces a scent that wards off potential predators. Either way, that secondary venom is only delivered when the snake is .... what? Licked? Eaten? It's protected the same way the amphibian protects itself. Curious.

Talk to Forbes not me.
Your expectations are too high for Forbes and you KNOW that.

The entire point of the article is in the title

 

[viper69]

A crucial factor. As I mentioned, E Tigrinus has two venom glands, "Venemous-Poisonous" is incorrect. So what.
I extend my apologies. I simply prefer proper scientific accuracy and terminologies. That which separates science from sensationalism.
Glands and only glands produce venom. It is interesting to note the secondary glands of that snake have no delivery mechanism. Possibly that secondary venom also produces a scent that wards off potential predators. Either way, that secondary venom is only delivered when the snake is .... what? Licked? Eaten? It's protected the same way the amphibian protects itself. Curious.

The toxins they gain are found in their nuchal GLANDS. Go write to the scientists in PNAS

I’m done looking up things as if I’m in front of a thesis committee with you.

Dietary sequestration of defensive steroids in nuchal glands of the Asian snake Rhabdophis tigrinus - PMC

The Asian snake Rhabdophis tigrinus possesses specialized defensive glands on its neck that contain steroidal toxins known as bufadienolides. We hypothesized that R. tigrinus does not synthesize these defensive steroids but instead sequesters the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Hardus nameous]

That's awesome, I had no idea that poisonous snakes existed; the term isn't just a misnomer. Good looking snake too.

 

[TheraMygale]

I dont want to read this anymore

but i did anyways.

i guess i am stupid because they vulgarized it and it made sense

mushrooms are my reference to understand this.

Mushrooms are poisonous. Because you eat them.

tarantulas have venom. Because they bite you.

maybe its too easy.

 

[Brewser]

Double Jeopardy

 

[Kada]

Tiger snakes are a point of interest in Taiwan as well. A lot of the snakes folks I've talked to seem to be of he believe it's based in toad based diets. We have lots of toads here, and this species will be eating specifically only 2 species: Bufo bankorensis and Duttaphrynus melanostictus.

Not just about being poisonous but how it may actually become [more?] Venomous. It's a FASCINATING snake. Worhy of kore research. Many are interested here, more of a funding issue from what I've seen.

Some interesting reading

Dietary sequestration of defensive steroids in nuchal glands of the Asian snake Rhabdophis tigrinus - PubMed

The Asian snake Rhabdophis tigrinus possesses specialized defensive glands on its neck that contain steroidal toxins known as bufadienolides. We hypothesized that R. tigrinus does not synthesize these defensive steroids but instead sequesters the toxins from toads it consumes as prey. To test...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

New Insights Into Dietary Toxin Metabolism: Diversity in the Ability of the Natricine Snake Rhabdophis tigrinus to Convert Toad-Derived Bufadienolides - PubMed

The Japanese natricine snake Rhabdophis tigrinus sequesters cardiotonic steroids, bufadienolides (BDs), from ingested toads in the nuchal glands as defensive toxins. A previous study showed that R. tigrinus in captivity converts dietary BDs when it sequesters them. However, it is unknown whether...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.0503502102

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Many of the viper family are highly colorful with striking patterned markings. Thus their pseudonym carpet vipers. Considering the human penchant for stupidity, by all means let the schmucks go out and collect them. We need more Darwin award candidates.
A little enigma. R Tigrinus is a colubrid, but does not possess the usual sensory pit so it's not in the true pit viper family. But all saw scale snakes inclusive of keelbacks are considered in the viper family. I'm confused.

I remember a staged YouTube vivid of a fer de lance being eaten by a salmon pink tarantula.🥲

 

[The Snark]

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