Venom capacity

[Liron Samuels]

Anybody know about a scorpion venom capacity table? (like the LD 50 table).

In perticular, I'm interested to know how much venom an adult Deathstalker has when "fully loaded".

It would also be nice to see if the most venomous scorps carry the most venom, or if some of the scorpions with weaker venom might be more dangerous, because they have more venom.

Thanks.

 

[Wolvie56X]

good question, anyone know?

Wolvie

 

[biznacho]

I'm not sure it works like that. I think it works more like saliva. You can use alot at once, but you never really run out.

biznacho

 

[fusion121]

Scorpions don't have an infinite supply of venom, and must replenish it, the synthesis obviously takes time and scorpions no doubt moderate their activity patterns to account for this.
I don't know if any ones ever published a paper on the relative venom loads of different scorpion species, I do know that while L. quinquestriatus has the lowest LD50 value it does not deliver as much venom on average per sting as species like A. Australis. I suppose that there could be a balance between toxicity and venom load so that in scorpions which use there sting regularly any one sting can be said be a dangerous as any other. In reality however I think you'd find that there would be so much variation between individuals, in terms of venom load, that making a comparison between many species would become nearly stastistically meaningless.

 

[smalltime]

Liron, I suppose you're talking now about defensive strikes, not strikes to subdue prey...?
If so, I suppose it would be reasonable to assume that they squirt as much as they can, possibly making the size of the telson a measure for the amount...? I read somewhere that A. australis injects up to 200micrograms (dry venom) which is supposed to be a lot. A lot of that 200 is also harmful to mammals. In short you'd need total amount injected and total percentage harmful to man before you can say anything about relative venom capacity.

But I suppose also that when using it to catch prey, they use as much as is needed, maybe more, making the amount they squirt dependent the potency of their venom relative to the prey (size species etc)

I have never heard about anyone researching this... :?

 

[David_F]

Check this out.

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~chuaeecc/venom/rpotent.htm

Don't know how up to date it is. Just found it through a google search.

 

[skinheaddave]

This is why sting reports are so useful. Isolating factors (toxicity of venom, amount of venom available, amount of venom injected, relative abundance of various venom compounds, individual effects of compounds, variability among individuals, variability among populations, variability among victim reactions etc.) is difficult. Given enough medical reports as well as sting reports, however, you can start to construct a picture of what a species is capable of. The danger here is having inadequate data points. Medical literature can only report cases that sought medical attention and usually choses to focus on the more severe cases. Personal sting reports are few and far between. When you are dealing with only a few reports it is entirely possible that, by chance, a relatively high proportion will be unnaturally severe or unnaturally mild. There is also the consideration among hobbyists that we usually get stung in the hands and pull back fast. If you step on a scorpion it has better leverage and will likely have a greater opportunity to inject venom. If you touch it you are more likely to avoid the worst of it. Some of the most useful envenomation accounts have been provided by Mike "Troll", who has decided now and again to hold a scorpion in place to ensure he got a full dose. The reports are in the archives of Scorpion Fans.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Kugellager]

Check this out.
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~chuaeecc/venom/rpotent.htm

See the LD50 thread under FAQ.

John
];')

 

[Liron Samuels]

Thanks for the replies!

I've got another question - approximately how much venom can an adult Deathstalker inject?