TOPSOIL ! (and more...)

hardminder

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
23
Hi, after I chose to go for topsoil for my substrate (added with other things like clay and sand), I found out that there was confusion around the term ''topsoil'' and rightfully so. ''Topsoil'' is a catch-all label that doesn't say much. It is like saying pasta sauce. Now is alfredo, marinara and bolognese the same thing? Would you use any interchangeably? No. I already have significant knowledge of soils being an amateur gardener and all but that doesn't always apply to a vivarium does it? So I went to research on the matter for quite a while and that's what I found, understood, and concluded. I thought I would share it with you guys ( please be indulgent towards my English, it is not my first language):

Topsoil in nature: the topsoil layer in nature is, well, the top layer of soil. It is rich in organic decayed matter (humus) and its composition might vary greatly depending on your geographical location.

Store bagged topsoil: bagged topsoils are mixtures of different components to replicate natural topsoil. You can also find bagged topsoil that is actual natural topsoil, sometimes called native topsoil. But generally speaking, bagged topsoil could be a mixture of any of those components in various amounts and quality: peat moss, sphagnum moss, black earth, compost, rice hulls, processed forest product, humus, sand, clay, ash, perlite, etc.

Some topsoils will have some or all of the ''Big 3'' fertilizers added; nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium. That is commonly advised against in vivariums.

Often, the soil that has processed forest product added (wood) in greater amount will be called gardening soil and it will likely include compost. It can include wood from various sources, including palettes and coniferous essence that is likely not suitable for inverts, from what I could read on the boards.

Compost: compost can vary in composition, but it is mostly made of animal manure, shrimp shells, food waste. It is that type of organic matter, in an advanced, but still ongoing, decaying process. I saw many people here advising against it in substrate even planted and bioactive. I would agree but I am very new to the hobby. This post isn't about what soil to use, it's about what is soil. BUT...it seems like there is some contradiction too. More on that later.

Humus: humus is ''done compost''. It is fully decomposed stable organic matter. As mentioned above, this is what constitutes a lot of topsoils in nature. A lot of bagged topsoils include humus. If there is native soil, there is humus. If you see a description that goes something like ''rich in organic matter'' that's probably humus. You could conclude that it is perfectly fine to have it in a soil mix used in vivarium; it's just organically rich soil.

Now... I've seen the Eartgro topsoil receiving a lot of love, Scott's premium topsoil, Westland, etc.

These 3 topsoils composition descriptions go as follows:

Eartgro Topsoil: Regionally formulated from organic and inorganic materials derived from one or more of the following: peat, forest products, compost, ash, sand, or native soil.

So to summer it up, it could but not necessarily have compost, wood from any source, and humus which is a part of most native soil. Also, native soil could include a myriad of unidentifiable components. So is compost a big no-no or not? Eartgrow soil composition will vary depending on where you buy it, geographically.

Scott's Premium Topsoil: Description: Scotts Premium Topsoil contains sphagnum peat moss and organic matter to condition the soil in your lawn or garden.
Ingredients: this product is regionally formulated from (one or more of the following: peat, processed forest product, rice hulls, native soil, food waste, and/or compost) and sphagnum peat moss.

To summer up: The only thing you're certain to find in this is sphagnum peat moss and at least another or more of the other mentioned ingredients. There could be compost, humus, and wood from a different source.

Westland Topsoil: I couldn't find an ingredient list but the description goes like that:
Specially selected rich clay loam soil with a high humus content which retains nutrients and moisture, making it ideal for use all around the garden.
This soil has been sieved to remove stones and debris and heat sterilized to kill off weed seeds.
Westland Top Soil has a balanced clay, silt and sand composition with plenty of organic matter providing good structural stability under all weather conditions.


So, humus clay and sand obviously but the ''plenty of organic matter'' is subject to interpretation. Wood and compost could be present, we jst don't know.

So, to conclude; saying topsoil is not like saying coco fiber or perlite, it varies greatly in composition. Just know that you might and will most certainly achieve different results depending on what you're buying. Know what you want, what to search for, and what you're reading. About the compost, despite people advising against compost, it is most likely but not necessarily, in some of your favorite topsoil mixes. Now, would it be wise to go for a mix that clearly states ''compost-enriched''? You'd be the judge. About wood, coniferous essence might also be present in your favorite topsoil mix, does it mean you should avoid that type of soil? Probably not, everyone seems to enjoy it. Now should you go for garden topsoil openly full of wood particles? You'd be the judge.

The ammount of clay, sand, perlite, black earth will affect soil properties.

The only things that should clearly and unanimously be avoided is added fertilizer, the Big 3: NPK. But again, that doesn't mean any topsoil mix is created equal and has the same properties.

Feel free to chip in or ask questions. I can answer some but I am learning too.
 
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hardminder

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
23
No confusion here, I love pasta sauce
If you had some fettuccine, shrimps, smoked salmon and mussels cooking and you'd ask your wife to get a jar of pasta sauce for it and she arrived with a jar of bolognese meat sauce, you'd be happy?
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
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Dec 8, 2006
Messages
18,545
If you had some fettuccine, shrimps, smoked salmon and mussels cooking and you'd ask your wife to get a jar of pasta sauce for it and she arrived with a jar of bolognese meat sauce, you'd be happy?
that would never ever happen for several reasons.
 

hardminder

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
23
that would never ever happen for several reasons.
Well if all pasta sauce were sold in opaque jars and just identified as "pasta sauce" with ingredients lists starting with "contains one or more of the following ingredients", that would definitely happen to some people and cause confusion. Don't tell me you don't get the analogy.
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
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Dec 8, 2006
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Well if all pasta sauce were sold in opaque jars and just identified as "pasta sauce" with ingredients lists starting with "contains one or more of the following ingredients", that would definitely happen to some people and cause confusion. Don't tell me you don't get the analogy.
You picked pasta sauce- like I said your example would never ever happen to me. It’s impossible actually.
 

hardminder

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
23
You picked pasta sauce- like I said your example would never ever happen to me. It’s impossible actually.
Ok cool but this thread is not about pasta sauce and it's not about you or what happens to you either. That's an analogy, do you get the analogy? Yes? That's what's important. No? Too bad!

It would never happen to me either because I don't buy pasta sauce, I make it, I cook for a living. Still I chose this example because it's easy to relate to it for anyone, even if "it wouldn't happen to you". That stance is pointless and leads nowhere.

It's interesting that the only thing you felt the need to reply to this thread that I thought informative and helpful was : No confusion here, I love pasta sauce. 👍👍👍
 
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pongdict

Arachnosquire
Joined
Dec 2, 2021
Messages
69
But can we use pasta sauce as substrate for the more moisture dependent italian species? :D
 

pongdict

Arachnosquire
Joined
Dec 2, 2021
Messages
69
Joking aside. There is anothet topsoil brand being sold at lowes here. Its the Timberline topsoil brand.
Here is the description:
Timberline products include a quality line of mulches, soils and soil amendments. From planting gardens to dressing up your landscapes, Timberline has what you need.
  • Ideal for filling holes and leveling low spots
  • Spreads easily for patching bare spots and top dressing existing lawns or starting new lawns
  • Contains recycled forest products (wood fines), perfect for adding aeration into native soil
  • Does not contain fertilizer
  • Regionally sourced to match your local existing landscape

Doesnt say anything about compost. But does say regionally sourced to match your local existing landscape which is kind of vague. I usually buy the earthgro one, but I might try this one next time.
 

hardminder

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
23
Joking aside. There is anothet topsoil brand being sold at lowes here. Its the Timberline topsoil brand.
Here is the description:
Timberline products include a quality line of mulches, soils and soil amendments. From planting gardens to dressing up your landscapes, Timberline has what you need.
  • Ideal for filling holes and leveling low spots
  • Spreads easily for patching bare spots and top dressing existing lawns or starting new lawns
  • Contains recycled forest products (wood fines), perfect for adding aeration into native soil
  • Does not contain fertilizer
  • Regionally sourced to match your local existing landscape

Doesnt say anything about compost. But does say regionally sourced to match your local existing landscape which is kind of vague. I usually buy the earthgro one, but I might try this one next time.
Sorry for the late reply. As I said, anything with the mention: "recycled forest product". means wood of any provenance. That includes lumber, that is most likely treated. You might even find nails and/or staples in the mix. Earthgro says it might contain wood, the Timberline says it does contain it. That probably also mean that you should expect more wood in it's composition and I can confirm that looking at picture of this soil, there's a lot of wood in there.

And that's pretty much the only hint you have on the compostion of this Timberline soil, why do you feel like it's better than earthgro?
 
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antinous

Pamphopharaoh
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Mar 28, 2013
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1,667
Going to be moving forward with Scott’s as this seems to be a safe bet while the unbranded option can vary dramatically (have seen photos of ones containing mostly sand and pieces of wood) from reviews.
 

hardminder

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
23
Going to be moving forward with Scott’s as this seems to be a safe bet while the unbranded option can vary dramatically (have seen photos of ones containing mostly sand and pieces of wood) from reviews.
The 3 soils I mentionned are examples only. There are many other suitable soils. I personally didn't use any of these 3.
 
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