To B. lateralis or not to be

[Mr. Gone]

Well spring is here, and that means great weather for shipping inverts. So my wife (curiousme) and I are going to start our first roach colony. We've been planning to do so for months but have been waiting on weather and finances. Thing is, all these months we've been planning on starting a colony of B. dubia, but in the last few weeks, we've decided B. lateralis is probably better suited; at least to our needs. We only have 3 adult T's and 2 adult scorps (P. imperator), but we do have 2 juvie Ts, 8 slings, and a dozen or so scoplings. So we thought the size of the lats would be better suited to them than the dubias. Add to that the better feeding success people claim, and the non-burrowing behavior, and we were sold. Plus they're cheaper and breed faster than dubias, making it possible for us to buy fewer (200) as we're on a tight budget.
Neither one of us were ever worried about their speed, or handling them or anything. We were placing an order for 100 adults and 100 nymphs, and the dealer said he'd sell us 2 different sized nymphs instead because the adults were too hard for him to catch/to deal with!!! That's what we're going to be dealing with. So now we're wondering, how bad are they really? I mean we're used to dealing with crix running around and randomly jumping (pinheads are the worst), but we're trying to get roaches to get away from that. If they're as bad as crix, or worse, then I don't know that I still want them.
Also, I thought their smell wasn't supposed to be bad compared to crix, but recently I've been reading otherwise. I don't mind a slight smell, but the cricket stench is one of the reasons I don't want crickets. I've read that if properly maintained, the smell isn't "that bad", but I've read that about crix too, and what is "that bad" anyway. I don't want them if they're too stinky.

So how do you think lats compare to crix?
Are lats really that fast, and how is the smell??
Is it odd this dealer doesn't want to deal with the adults when he has many other roach colonies??
Would we be better off with dubias? (neither of us have roach experience, but we aren't squeamish, and weren't even worried about it until the dealer didn't want to handle them)

 

[Matt K]

a) Find another dealer.

b) The smell is not good, but better than crickets by a long shot.

 

[gvfarns]

Crickets are hard to catch because they jump right when you grab for them. Lateralis run much faster and are better at wiggling out of your fingers if you don't get a good hold on them. Overall I'd say they are about the same for catching. The best way with lateralis is to use a smooth vial or cup to scoup them up. Then it's really easy to dump out the ones you don't want, and they don't escape.

One of the main reasons cricket stink is that they die really fast. Lateralis don't die as quickly. Their enclosures stink because they poo and like all poo, eventually it stinks. It's not terrible, though. If you had the same number of crickets for the same amount of time it would be orders of magnitude worse. Lateralis can also live in the tarantula enclosure for longer. They are generally smarter and more robust.

The only problem I've had with lateralis is getting conditions right. If the temperature and humidity are not correct, they don't reproduce at all (though they do grow up just fine). Once you get these factors right, they reproduce shockingly fast.

You have to compare apples to apples. Lateralis are a bit of a pain just because they are real bugs and are fast and they poo, but they are colony animals. If you had a colony of crickets you'd be pulling your hair out all the time and you'd keep them far from the house. Having a colony of lateralis saves you the trouble of a million trips to the store for crickets.

I recommend lateralis. They are the best feeder I've seen by far, and I've tried a number of roach species. They are much better than dubia in the sense that they are smaller, faster growing and reproducing, and much more active. They are more readily eaten and work for about any size of T or scorp. You can try those dubia if you want, as I did, but eventually you will want to go back to something else, I suspect. At least, I did.

lateralis are pretty cheap. If your dealer can't meet the prices and service at aaronpauling.com or thebugpros.com, then just go with them.

 

[jmiller]

Lat's certainly have a smell of their own but I do not think it is offensive. If you keep your bins cleaned out the smell is very minor. The sure smell better that crickets.

When I need to get some out to feed I just grab on egg flat or paper towel roll and shake it into a large stainless steel bowl. I then can get what I need and toss the rest back in.

Dubias are much slower and easier to catch but as you mentioned they are not very active once they know they are going to get eaten.

I think you will be happier with Lats.

I sent you a pm as well.

Good Luck.

 

[skips]

Well spring is here, and that means great weather for shipping inverts. So my wife (curiousme) and I are going to start our first roach colony. We've been planning to do so for months but have been waiting on weather and finances. Thing is, all these months we've been planning on starting a colony of B. dubia, but in the last few weeks, we've decided B. lateralis is probably better suited; at least to our needs. We only have 3 adult T's and 2 adult scorps (P. imperator), but we do have 2 juvie Ts, 8 slings, and a dozen or so scoplings. So we thought the size of the lats would be better suited to them than the dubias. Add to that the better feeding success people claim, and the non-burrowing behavior, and we were sold. Plus they're cheaper and breed faster than dubias, making it possible for us to buy fewer (200) as we're on a tight budget.
Neither one of us were ever worried about their speed, or handling them or anything. We were placing an order for 100 adults and 100 nymphs, and the dealer said he'd sell us 2 different sized nymphs instead because the adults were too hard for him to catch/to deal with!!! That's what we're going to be dealing with. So now we're wondering, how bad are they really? I mean we're used to dealing with crix running around and randomly jumping (pinheads are the worst), but we're trying to get roaches to get away from that. If they're as bad as crix, or worse, then I don't know that I still want them.
Also, I thought their smell wasn't supposed to be bad compared to crix, but recently I've been reading otherwise. I don't mind a slight smell, but the cricket stench is one of the reasons I don't want crickets. I've read that if properly maintained, the smell isn't "that bad", but I've read that about crix too, and what is "that bad" anyway. I don't want them if they're too stinky.

So how do you think lats compare to crix?
Are lats really that fast, and how is the smell??
Is it odd this dealer doesn't want to deal with the adults when he has many other roach colonies??
Would we be better off with dubias? (neither of us have roach experience, but we aren't squeamish, and weren't even worried about it until the dealer didn't want to handle them)

Personally, I breed both. My scorpions wont touch the lateralis, I think because they're ambush predators and they just cant catch the lateralis, even by surprise. I'm not sure if i'm the only one that's had that problem. They'll annihilate the dubia though.

They dont smell nearly as bad as crickets. I put a visquene (plastic) sheet over the tank to keep in humidity on both tank (more necessary for the lateralis). It only smells at all when you take off the visquene.

they're not that hard to catch. Your dealer is lazy. Just pick up an egg carton and knock a bunch into a deli cup or something. Something I saw once that was awesome was someone took tupperwear container and drilled different size holes in them and glued them together in stages where the wholes got successively smaller. that way when you shake it up a bit the small ones fall through and you can separate out by sizes.

 

[Mina]

Personally, I breed both. My scorpions wont touch the lateralis, I think because they're ambush predators and they just cant catch the lateralis, even by surprise. I'm not sure if i'm the only one that's had that problem. They'll annihilate the dubia though.

Same here. I keep B. dubia and B. lateralis as feeders. I feed dubia to the larger Ts and lateralis to the smaller ones and ones that aren't really good feeders. The lateralis move around more and will get the interest of a slow feeder. I have the same problem with my scorpion, she can't seem to catch the lateralis, I think they are just to fast for her. She loves the dubia though and will happily run around the tank with one in each claw and one in her mouth.

 

[skips]

Personally, I breed both. My scorpions wont touch the lateralis, I think because they're ambush predators and they just cant catch the lateralis, even by surprise. I'm not sure if i'm the only one that's had that problem. They'll annihilate the dubia though.

Same here. I keep B. dubia and B. lateralis as feeders. I feed dubia to the larger Ts and lateralis to the smaller ones and ones that aren't really good feeders. The lateralis move around more and will get the interest of a slow feeder. I have the same problem with my scorpion, she can't seem to catch the lateralis, I think they are just to fast for her. She loves the dubia though and will happily run around the tank with one in each claw and one in her mouth.

Lol, I love when they double/triple fist their food.

 

[AbraxasComplex]

Same thing with my larger emperors. They can catch adult lateralis sometimes, but not often. My T's (dwarf and large), some centipedes, and my tiny scorpions love them. I have a Lychas sp. that is 1'' full grown that snatches them up so quickly. For everything else I use the dubia... so my slow pedes and emps.

 

[HepCatMoe]

i only have dubias, so take it for what its worth,

from the limited amount of critters your feedin i might stick with dubias. my roaches breed suprisingly quickly and lats might have you overrun before you know it.

edit: gvfarns: orders of magnitude? you do math/physics?

 

[Dave]

I recently set up a colony of Eublaberus prosticus, the orange head roach.
I don't know how the T's and scorps like them yet, but what I do know is;

-They aren't that expensive
-They're non climbers
-They don't smell bad (so far!)
-They're medium fast, so they're easy to catch
-They reach a good size
-They have wings, but can't fly
-They mature in 3 to 4 months
-They're prolific breeders (still yet to see 1st hand, I finished setting them up today.)
-And I think they look nice!


-Dave

 

[dtknow]

prosticus are great.

They do smell more than dubia They also are more spiky legged(yet more soft bodied) than dubia. And they don't play dead as readily. I think it a a good compromise. They are definetly more prolific.

 

[i_play_trombone]

I have B. latteralis, and I havent had any problems. They dont smell that bad if you have adequate ventillation, and even then, i think they just smell like mild feet, so it could be worse. The plus is that they dont climb, or at least very well.

However, some of the smaller nymphs can somewhat climb rough plastic surfaces, but clean glass is nearly fool proof. If you still have problems with them climbing, put a ring of packing tape around the top of the lid. Its a sure-fire way to stop them in their tracks. they have zero traction on the tape.

As far as speed, they are fast, but its nothing someone who has some practice holding insects shouldn't be able to work with. I am also looking to sell some of mine, so if you are interested, send me a message.

All things considered, they are a pretty good choice of feeder.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

My scorpions have no trouble eating lateralis; crushing their heads makes them slow and clumsy.

IMO B. lateralis are a great feeder. I used to feed B. dubia to most of my inverts and now only use them for my vertebrates. The lateralis are hardy, breed quickly, grow quickly, are good for nymphs up to full grown T's, and if kept with a bit of substrate have very little odor. Their primary pitfall is their speed, but crushing their heads even partially slows them down a'plenty - and they're tough buggers, so they'll often move enough to attract a predator even with a smashed head. I say go for it!

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Personally, I breed both. My scorpions wont touch the lateralis, I think because they're ambush predators and they just cant catch the lateralis, even by surprise. I'm not sure if i'm the only one that's had that problem. They'll annihilate the dubia though.
.

My scorps (parabuthus) are the opposite, they won't touch dubia but readily accept lateralis.

 

[Harlock]

I've got both Dubia and Lat. I hated the smell of lats and that they just were not breeding, but then I put them on some substrate and now I have no complaints. My Ts all destroy Lats, including a few that will not touch Dubias. I would definitely say IMO that lats > Dubias.

 

[biomarine2000]

I also have a lat and dubia colony. I definately like the lats over the dubias. I'm with Mina, I feed the dubia to my large t's and the lats to my small t's. The lats do smell pretty bad IMO. Not nearly as bad a crickets though.