The Wetar Island Pit Viper

[Najakeeper]

Hello All,

This species was always within the list of snakes I wanted to buy and I finally managed to procure a tiny little female. For the ones who don't know, Trimeresurus insularis come from the Wetar Island in Indonesia and even though most other Trimeresurus are blue/green in colouration, these are bright yellow. I think they compete for the best looking tree snakes with Parias mcgregori, which is another species of interest for me. Unfortunately, she still refuses pinkies even though I was told otherwise so she is being assist fed. In the nature, young ones feed on small lizards.

Venom is hemotoxic and medically significant, and they are pit vipers so they are quite accurate when they strike.

Well here are a couple photos for you:

And a video:

[YOUTUBE]17k3u_OZEGk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Mastigoproctus]

Beautiful! I love them, so sleek and aggressive looking and they move with such grace. Have you tried offering it Anoles? I've had some arboreal snakes only eat anoles and never except mice.

 

[14pokies]

A few tips that helped when i raised a group of them years ago.. Offer the pray at night and drag it across the perch instead of floating it in front of her and keep her enclosure at about chest level so she doesn't feel quite so intimidated.

Imo i wouldn't be force feeding her she looks like she has good body weight still. Just make sure she is drinking.. I never saw mine drink from a dish only there scales and some wouldn't want to do that i would have to lightly spray there lips untill they started drinking.

The only other advice i can give you is to scent the pink with a gecko or skink and if that doesn't work leave a live crawler mouse in with her over night.. If that doesn't work try scenting the crawler..If after a month or so of trying those techniques try assist feeding.. Its stressful for you and her but i get better results with that than actually cramming a mouse all the way down the snakes throat.. After awhile it decides on its own that hey this is tasty and i feel great after i swallow it!

They are surprisingly hardy and one of my absolute favorites...once you get her feeding and growing she is gonna be a blinding highlighter yellow!

Congrats on your new trime man stay away from the pointy end!

 

[Najakeeper]

A few tips that helped when i raised a group of them years ago.. Offer the pray at night and drag it across the perch instead of floating it in front of her and keep her enclosure at about chest level so she doesn't feel quite so intimidated.

Imo i wouldn't be force feeding her she looks like she has good body weight still. Just make sure she is drinking.. I never saw mine drink from a dish only there scales and some wouldn't want to do that i would have to lightly spray there lips untill they started drinking.

The only other advice i can give you is to scent the pink with a gecko or skink and if that doesn't work leave a live crawler mouse in with her over night.. If that doesn't work try scenting the crawler..If after a month or so of trying those techniques try assist feeding.. Its stressful for you and her but i get better results with that than actually cramming a mouse all the way down the snakes throat.. After awhile it decides on its own that hey this is tasty and i feel great after i swallow it!

They are surprisingly hardy and one of my absolute favorites...once you get her feeding and growing she is gonna be a blinding highlighter yellow!

Congrats on your new trime man stay away from the pointy end!

Thanks for the feedback mate. I will try your methods. She is fine with assist feeding right now, I am not fully force feeding her.

Here is another vid:

[YOUTUBE]GEgiCVJsbHM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Great snakes man. I have now for you what is a probably very dumb question (sorry, i'm not into snakes) : why offer them dead mouses instead of live ones?

 

[Najakeeper]

Great snakes man. I have now for you what is a probably very dumb question (sorry, i'm not into snakes) : why offer them dead mouses instead of live ones?

A few answers to that mate:

-Ease of storage as live animals need a lot more space and attention than dead ones stacked in a freezer.
-Cost as frozen mice are a lot cheaper than live.
-Animal health as freezing kills some parasites.
-Personal preference as I do not like to see animals suffer in general.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

A few answers to that mate:

-Ease of storage as live animals need a lot more space and attention than dead ones stacked in a freezer.
-Cost as frozen mice are a lot cheaper than live.
-Animal health as freezing kills some parasites.
-Personal preference as I do not like to see animals suffer in general.

All of those are great valid reasons, man, and some of those i guessed as well (i too, don't like to see animals suffer).
What about from the.. let's say, snakes point of view? I mean, they eat those, granted.. but they don't care much or you think they would prefer live prey, like happens in the wild?

 

[Najakeeper]

All of those are great valid reasons, man, and some of those i guessed as well (i too, don't like to see animals suffer).
What about from the.. let's say, snakes point of view? I mean, they eat those, granted.. but they don't care much or you think they would prefer live prey, like happens in the wild?

As long as the snake registers the rodent as food, the snake does not care. In fact venomous snakes still inject venom and try to kill it. The problem starts when some snakes, especially pit vipers, do not register the dead rodent as food. Then you need to fool them via heating the rodent to body temprature etc.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

As long as the snake registers the rodent as food, the snake does not care. In fact venomous snakes still inject venom and try to kill it. The problem starts when some snakes, especially pit vipers, do not register the dead rodent as food. Then you need to fool them via heating the rodent to body temprature etc.

Thanks, man. You have a great collection and are a great keeper. My compliments.

Here in Italy they banned venomous (snakes, i mean) prior to 1994, and i was a 15 years kid back then. I was into T's, since 1991, but too young for those.

I really love those, especially Cobra I have a Naja tattoo, and that was my first tattoo.

Here you can have legally ONLY the non venomous ones snakes (but honestly IMO they aren't so fascinating ah ah).

Maybe it's better because i doubt i would had the ability to deal with those. Hell, T's.. yes but they are the quintessence

 

[The Snark]

... Here you can have legally ONLY the non venomous ones snakes (but honestly IMO they aren't so fascinating ah ah).

Maybe it's better because i doubt i would had the ability to deal with those. Hell, T's.. yes but they are the quintessence

Someone needs a wild caught Asian rat snake or two. A few weeks with aerial acrobatics reptiles would leave you wishing for an easy going pleasant to handle crotalid.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Someone needs a wild caught Asian rat snake or two. A few weeks with aerial acrobatics reptiles would leave you wishing for an easy going pleasant to handle crotalid.

You can have those snakes, here (like all the non venomous) plus reptiles, and myriapods in general. Only Ban was/is for scorpions (all), spiders (all), venomous snakes.. even if, lately, seems that for the T's/scorpions 2003 ban things are a bit better (meaning, new fairs where you can trade/buy those)

Think man that, a Grammostola rosea was banned, but, for instance, an OW maybe from Thailand/Myanmar/Laos Scolopendra was/is perfectly legal to own, lol.

I don't regret my words. I learn fast, and i love those animals. But still, maybe here is better that they banned those venomous snakes. Like the folks here who own Pitbulls, they "train" those with taser, torture etc who keep using those dogs for illegal fights (Mafia is behind that). Wild boars VS dogs here is common in those underground enviroment.

Here in Italy, a Pitbull in the hands of the wrong person, is like a Beretta in the hands of a crackhead. Those people deserves a "Punisher" visit, or worst, i know.. but you know how things works.

Go figure with venomous snakes; Switzerland is a serious nation. With the right papers, you can own those under your responsibility.

Here? Ah ah, i live in Italy, most unpredictable nation ever where everything can happen so that's why a ban is probably better (even if that sucks).

 

[The Snark]

Which reminds me to remind the OP to post his set up and all the safeguards. I'd also like to hear about the permits he had to acquire and what measures he took to keep hots in Switzerland. It sounds to me like the sensible approach for the serious enthusiast.

 

[Najakeeper]

Which reminds me to remind the OP to post his set up and all the safeguards. I'd also like to hear about the permits he had to acquire and what measures he took to keep hots in Switzerland. It sounds to me like the sensible approach for the serious enthusiast.

Haven't forgotten this . I just need to find time to sit down and type. But for the permissions part, I think I have already described the process in another topic.

Here:

I have missed this one. No mate, I haven't but sound thrilling .

Ok, so permit process is complete and I am allowed to keep venomous snakes in Switzerland. I have moved my collection over.

Basically:

-I had to join to a day long course, which I have explained above. (http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...-King-Cobras&p=2276065&viewfull=1#post2276065)
-I had to get home owners insurance which covers venomous snakes, triple the normal cost.
-I had to get additional health insurance on top of our coverage. Only 1/4th additional cost as we already had a significant coverage.
-I had to get my landlord to agree.
-I had to sign up with the local Swiss antivenom bank, no additional cost as I am canceling my Germany subscription.
-I had to create an emergency booklet, which was in line with Swiss regulations.
-I had to fill out extensive paperwork documenting all of the above, the species I would keep and the terrarium sizes.
-A veterinary policeman came and inspected my room, windows, door and all the terrariums.

This was a costly and tedious exercise but ended up working like a clock, a slow but steady clock .

 

[The Snark]

Now if we could get the same rules to apply in the US for hot keepers. Don't flame me! There are advantages:

1. Eliminates 99% of the moron crowd.
2. Eliminates politicians making wild hair rules and regulations going solely by their vast knowledge of little tiny bits of the olde testamente.
3. Helps clue the keeper as to what s/he is in for and what is expected of a fully responsible animal keeper.

Or, playing devils advocate, let's list the US requirements:

-Don't have to take no course in nuttin!
-I gots insurance on my pickup. Dats good nuff!
-Health insurance? What fer?
-Landlord can go climb a tree.
-What's a venom bank?
-Gots mergency numbers written on the wall above the phone.
-You want me to keep a list of my snakes and spiders, you write it.
-No vet cop is comin in my house!

 

[Najakeeper]

-No vet cop is comin in my house!

I think this would bug my freedom loving American friends most. As in like many other places, police cannot come into your property without a court order here in Switzerland. However, when you apply for a permit, you waive this right. Our vet police went into my garden last week to check on the house. It was a very hot day and my wife kept the snake room window open so the room doesn't get too hot. This is a not allowed even though the individual cages are also locked and secure. I got fined 200 CHF and have been told that if I do this again, I will lose my licence. They take regulations quite seriously here.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

They take regulations quite seriously here.

Yeah, the truth. I tried those ah ah as a 14 years kid, '93: with my brother and a friend we "bypassed" the school (was a sport for us, since parents made the horrible mistake to send us to study in Milano, lol) and from Milano Central Station we took a train to neighbor Switzerland, with the secondary goal to buy a lot of cigarettes, btw, of course.

Now, since in Italy always, and everyone in the years, for years, told us that in Switzerland "they force you to pick up the cigarette if you throw those on the floor" i was very curious and did, after smoking one, Italian style, out of curiousity only.

Man, now i was damn sure that no one spotted me, and i didn't remember any CCTV or else.. jumped out a man in his late 40, somewhat red hairs, and with a perfect Italian (weird accent only) told me: "Ti ho visto.. raccoglilo subito!" ah ah.

Funny thing was that we managed to buy more cigarettes than what people told us (no more than 10 packets for person, they told us), and no one checked us, only questions about, probably "fooled" by the fact that three teens from Italy couldn't have so much money.

Ended 1-1 then

Yup, they are very very serious about.. unlike here, of course. Here is 24/DIY

 

[The Snark]

I think this would bug my freedom loving American friends most. As in like many other places, police cannot come into your property without a court order here in Switzerland. However, when you apply for a permit, you waive this right. Our vet police went into my garden last week to check on the house. It was a very hot day and my wife kept the snake room window open so the room doesn't get too hot. This is a not allowed even though the individual cages are also locked and secure. I got fined 200 CHF and have been told that if I do this again, I will lose my licence. They take regulations quite seriously here.

That's the extreme. Police state stuff. But you can also look at it another way. They want 100% redundancy containment. In a heavily populated urban area, the single containment fails and an O Hannah or Inland Taipan is on the loose...

 

[Najakeeper]

That's the extreme. Police state stuff. But you can also look at it another way. They want 100% redundancy containment. In a heavily populated urban area, the single containment fails and an O Hannah or Inland Taipan is on the loose...

And these did happen. Once in Germany, once in Netherlands and the cost was in millions as apartment complexes were evacuated for months. There was also jail time for the owner but no one got hurt. Still, it does really bug me as a responsible keeper to not to be able to keep my window cracked a little bit.

 

[The Snark]

Well the room is a prison of sorts, old bean. Get bars on the window. Or rather piano wire or cage screen, firmly fixed in place, attached to the casement and cannot be opened. Use the same criteria that they use for providing ventilation in prisons.
I keep thinking of an O Hannah that turned up on a 4th floor balcony of a high rise in downtown Bangkok.

There was also a Mamba that got loose on the east coast of the US and player hide and go seek for several months.

Had a cute one happen the other day. I was riding on the back of the motorcycle, the boss driving. She suddenly clamped on the brakes. There was this tiny little O Hannah, maybe 18 inches long, sunning itself on the side of the road. She used the front tire of the bike, waggling it in the snakes face while sternly admonishing it to find a safer place to warm up.

BTW, have you kept track of this man's photography? Definitely Smithsonian caliber. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...ographs-of-slithering-beasts-27577991/?no-ist
Check out the Hannah about half way down the page. Unreal.

 

[Hisserdude]

Oh come on, they charged you for having the window open on a really hot day, even though the cages were secure? That's some BS right there.