The Water Snake Thread(Image-Intense)

[pitbulllady]

I decided to start a thread on what I consider to be the most underappreciated genus of snakes, Nerodia. I started getting serious about keeping these over a year ago, and the more I keep them, the more tempted I am to sell off everything else and concentrate just on these guys. I know that Water Snakes have a terrible reputation, which I honestly do not feel they deserve. Few snakes will tame down faster, or become any more calm or laid-back than Water Snakes, and few are as easy to care for, either. I've currently got several adults representing the five species or sub-species native to South Carolina: Nerodia fasciata pictiventris, N. fasciata fasciata, N. erythrogaster, N. sipedon pleuralis, & N. taxispilota, plus an intergrade(natural hybrid)between N. fasciata pictiventris & N.erythrogaster , and a litter of 23 Florida Bandeds(N. f. pictiventris) born to my hypomelanistic female on 08//04/09. All are very tame and handleable, even though the babies are the only ones that were born in captivity. These snakes readily take fresh Tilapia or Salmon cuts from the supermarket, with the exception of the Brown, who still insists on live Shiners(bait minnows). The Midland female, another hypo, will eat ANYTHING, including frozen-thawed unscented mice, and will eat anytime, including when she is in deep shed. Buying fish from the supermarket meat counter is almost as easy as buying food for your dog or cat. The babies are all taking small fish strips off tweezers; most fed the day after they were born, even the runt. Contrary to their name, these snakes do NOT need any more water than a regular Colubrid; in fact, a wet environment will almost always result in them contracting a skin infection called "scale rot" or "blister disease". I house mine the same way I do my Corns or Rat Snakes or Kings, in a clean dry cage with a water bowl large enough to soak in if they choose to do so, but mine don't soak as often as my Rat Snakes do. They do tend to poop in their water, though, so frequent cleaning of the bowl is necessary, although they will poop on the substrate, too.

Here are some pics of my Nerodia, including the latest litter, which contains a lot of hypomelanistic babies.
First up, the mother of the litter, my hypo Florida Banded. I take this snake to reptile presentations/educational seminars, since she is gentle and calm enough that even people who are scared of snakes want to hold her.

My other hypo, a Midland female. This is a subspecies of Northern Water Snake that is found in the South and lower Midwest. This snake is a living, breathing garbage disposal unit, lol! She had 43 babies last year, but I didn't have a male to breed her to, so she sat this year out.

Here she is eating a frozen-thawed mouse while in shed:

This is a large Eastern Banded, the subspecies found throughout all of SC. This snake was collected in Lexington County in June, and I was warned by the guy who caught her that she was "mean as hell" and was "guaranteed to bite". She has never bitten or musked me, and will sit on my lap like a cat for hours if I let her. She might be gravid, but if she is, she's still got awhile before she's due.

This young female was collected in Charleston County earlier this month, and is a probably intergrade between a Florida Banded and a Red-Belly.

Here's my Red-Belly pair:
The female, who is VERY gravid and is now in her final shed before giving birth:

the male:

My Brown:

Some of the recent babies:
The first ones are hypos.

A group pic:

A photo of the runt(normal-colored)next to one of the regular-sized hypo babies:

Another pic of a baby feeding on a Tilapia strip while another looks for HIS meal, lol.

pitbulllady

 

[whitewolf]

very pretty babies you have there

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

Nice!! I have a question though... Is the Red Belly the same species as the copper belly? Nerodia erythrogaster neglecta. I was under the assumption that they are protected.
I do agree, they are underrated, very beautiful snakes. I subscribed to the Herping with Dylan guy on YouTube, and he has a lot of videos about water snakes.

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

Nerodia erythrogaster is the red belly water snake.... Ah! Very cool project. I saw a copperbelly out behind my mom and dads house about twelve years ago. The habitat has since been drained and turned into farmland. :evil:

 

[pitbulllady]

Nice!! I have a question though... Is the Red Belly the same species as the copper belly? Nerodia erythrogaster neglecta. I was under the assumption that they are protected.
I do agree, they are underrated, very beautiful snakes. I subscribed to the Herping with Dylan guy on YouTube, and he has a lot of videos about water snakes.

The Copper Belly is a subspecies of N. erythrogaster that is found in the Midwest, and yes, that subspecies is protected, but the regular Red-Bellies aren't. They are probably the most common Nerodia in South Carolina.

pitbulllady

 

[JC50]

I used to own two Florida banded water snakes and they were very mellow also.I used to feed mine goldfish.

 

[pitbulllady]

I used to own two Florida banded water snakes and they were very mellow also.I used to feed mine goldfish.[/QUOTE

Goldfish are actually very bad for them, since Goldfish contain an enzyme called "Thiaminaise", which blocks the absorption of vital nutrients and vitamins. Adult snakes can tolerate it better than young ones, but it's still not good for the long term. Tilapia, Salmon, and some other fish either do not contain this enzyme in dangerous amounts or it is limited to only the fish's viscera. It's always a good idea to throw in a mouse now and then, even if you have to trick the snake by scenting it with a fish, although many will learn to eat unscented rodents. With the exception of my Brown, all the others will at least eat fresh fish cutlets from the supermarket. He's the hold-out who insists on live Shiners in his water bowl. Browns are probably the most difficult Nerodia to keep, and many simply will not eat in captivity, so I'm lucky to have one that will eat at all. Out of the litter of Bandeds, all but two have eaten already, and none have had a live meal. Once I get them all eating with regularity, I'm going to start switching them over to pinkies. Once they are eating f/t unscented pinks, you can go back and forth between rodents and fish with no problems. That way, if someone wants to feed them fish, they'll eat fish, but if someone prefers to feed them rodents, they'll eat those, too.

pitbulllady

 

[JC50]

That is good to know.It has been seven years since i owned mine,but that is what i was told to feed them at that time,along with other food items.They are awesome snakes and i really regret getting rid of them,but when you are renting the landlords are not always receptive to keeping certain animals as pets.

 

[Galapoheros]

Man I really agree! My fav local water snake is the Broad-banded water snake(Nerodia fasciata confluens). I'd go down to a floodplain at night with a bright flashlight and catch them when I was a kid, nice looking snakes that everybody in the area thinks is a cottonmouth. Alert and easy to keep. I haven't kept any in years though, actually moved away from snakes over the years but I still have a few. No interest in a couple of other water snakes around here though. Great pics!

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

The Copper Belly is a subspecies of N. erythrogaster that is found in the Midwest, and yes, that subspecies is protected, but the regular Red-Bellies aren't. They are probably the most common Nerodia in South Carolina.

pitbulllady

Now that you say that I remember reading it on the Kentucky Herpetological Society website. Good luck with those beauties!!

 

[Chilobrachys]

Heres a Norther water snake (Nerodia sipedon) my wife photographed in southern Ohio

 

[pitbulllady]

That's a nice fat N. sipedon there; looks like a gravid female. The Midland Water Snake is a Southern sub-species of Northern(if THAT ain't an oxymoron I don't know what is)that we have in the western part of SC up into NC and Virginia, where you start to see more that look like typical Northerns. I'd love to find a nice hypo-ish male to breed to my big girl next spring, but there's almost no one working with this genus at all, and even people who go out herping for "hot" snakes don't want to mess with these, due to their reputations for being "vicious" and "aggressive" and "untamable". I've got a couple of guys who will catch them while out looking for Canebrakes or other venomous, but they don't live where there would be Midlands. Many herpers are scared of Water Snakes, though.

And Galapoheros, I would LOVE to have a couple of Broad-Bandeds or Diamondback Water Snakes, if you still find time to go down to the flood plains now and then! I'd really like to have a breeding pair of most of the major species, actually, since so few others are working with these. I know what you mean about people mistaking them for Cottonmouths, though, since around here, any snake seen near water is automatically called a "Water Moccasin".

pitbulllady

 

[Chilobrachys]

They do have a bit of an attitude when you first catch them but that never stopped me. I wasn't there when that picture was taken or it would have been a picture of me holding it. My wife was saying some guy was making a big deal about her getting so close because it was a "cotton mouth". I've heard a lot of people talk about cotton mouths in Ohio, its probably just one of them.

 

[pitbulllady]

They do have a bit of an attitude when you first catch them but that never stopped me. I wasn't there when that picture was taken or it would have been a picture of me holding it. My wife was saying some guy was making a big deal about her getting so close because it was a "cotton mouth". I've heard a lot of people talk about cotton mouths in Ohio, its probably just one of them.

Ohio doesn't have any Cottonmouths. The only three venomous species are the Timber Rattler, the Northern Copperhead, and the Eastern Massasauga Rattler. Either these people are mistaking Copperheads for their much-larger southern relatives, or, as you suggested, they are seeing Northern Water Snakes and like most people around here, calling them "Cottonmouths". The snake in the pic your wife took looks absolutely nothing like a real Cottonmouth, which we have here in abundance. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who can't tell the difference shouldn't be allowed near water anyway, unless it's in the bathtub or toilet or sink. People here where I live often talk of "Red-Bellied Moccasins", which they believe are more dangerous than the regular run-of-the-mill Moccasin, and of course, they're seeing Nerodia erythrogasters.

The only Water Snake that ever bit me, other than feeding responses(which are intense in these guys, comparable to Retics or FWC's)which I don't count, was a small Northern at a reptile show that I was handling, trying to calm him down. He was doing OK until another vendor's dog(a wolf, actually, who travels to shows with her owners)walked up, and the snake flipped out and just started striking in all directions. My Brown can't stand a dog, either; he's better than he was when I first got him, but he really gets nervous if my father's Pug gets too close. The hypo female Florida Banded could care less about a dog or any other animal. Nothing phases her at all, which is one of the reasons she is such a great "PR" snake to take to educational presentations. I've found that people who are apprehensive about snakes tend to feel more comfortable with a brightly-colored snake, for some reason, and since this one is very calm and doesn't make quick movements, she is able to put people more at ease, enough to touch her. Once people get over that initial fear enough to actually touch a snake, and discover that it's NOT "slimy" or "gross", you can see that fear sort of melting away. I took her to school near the end of last year's term, after begging the Principal to allow me to do a presentation on snakes. She is terrified of them, but she understood the need for such education, and was willing to put her fear aside for the benefit of the children's learning. This Water Snake was the first one I pulled out of the snake bags, since I knew that the impression SHE made would set the tone for the whole presentation. One kid on the first row literally broad-jumped several rows of desks to get to the back of the room-as far from the snake as possible. By the end of the presentation, he was standing at the front of the room, holding this snake, telling his classmates, "y'all come feel this thing! Bo, I want one of these things! I'd rather have this than a Wii!"

pitbulllady

 

[snakebytes]

I've done a lot of field herping and Nerodia is by far my LEAST favorite genus. They are the nastiest snakes to pick up with all the skunking and the biting. One large N. erythrogaster got me real good between the thumb and pointer finger and it wouldn't stop bleeding for a very long time.
I've probably caught about 5-6 species and they all seem pretty nasty. The only time I've ever caught a docile Nerodia was a N. cyclopion and that was only because it was very cold. That species is also my favorite of the genus. The eyes on the top of the head kind of remind me of an anaconda.
If I see a Nerodia while out herping, I usually just observe from a distance, unless its a species I've never seen before.
I'm sure they probably make pretty interesting pets though.

 

[pitbulllady]

I've done a lot of field herping and Nerodia is by far my LEAST favorite genus. They are the nastiest snakes to pick up with all the skunking and the biting. One large N. erythrogaster got me real good between the thumb and pointer finger and it wouldn't stop bleeding for a very long time.
I've probably caught about 5-6 species and they all seem pretty nasty. The only time I've ever caught a docile Nerodia was a N. cyclopion and that was only because it was very cold. That species is also my favorite of the genus. The eyes on the top of the head kind of remind me of an anaconda.
If I see a Nerodia while out herping, I usually just observe from a distance, unless its a species I've never seen before.
I'm sure they probably make pretty interesting pets though.

That is quite the opposite of my experiences with them. All of mine, with the exception of the babies, are wild-caught. I was warned by the person who'd just caught the big regular Banded female that she was "guaranteed to bite". I took her right out of the bag. The worst thing she did was flatten her head for a couple of minutes to try and intimidate me(didn't work), then she settled down. I don't know-maybe it's how people handle them; most of the people I've seen catch these snakes almost always use the "pounce and grab" predator technique. I lift them up from underneath. There's a video on YouTube of a big Northern biting the snot out of two male field researchers, and one hands it off to a female colleague, and the snake immediately calms down and stops thrashing and biting. The woman was handling it completely different from how the two guys were.

I did have a huge female N. floridiana, or Florida Green, that I got from the same vendor I bought the hypo Banded from at a reptile show(unfortunately I did NOT recall who that vendor was). This snake was also extremely docile, but I don't know if that was her real nature or if it was because she was sick. She actually had a two-inch-long sting ray spine working its way through her insides, which eventually emerged on the outside through a horrible abscess. This thing actually cut ME as I was applying antibiotics to the abscess, not realizing that it originated from inside the snake's body cavity. I've heard of Water Snakes surviving similar injuries caused by catfish spines after eating a catfish, but obviously the damage done by a sting ray spine would be much greater, and the snake passed away soon after I bought her. A more recent attempt to acquire another big female Green ended in tragedy as well, due to incompetent and cruel shipping on the part of the seller. That incident, along with the gruesome photos of what I found inside the box I was sent, can be found on the Board of Inquiries over on Faunaclassifieds.com. I've almost decided that fate is against me having a Florida Green Water Snake.

pitbulllady

 

[johngphillips]

@pitbulllady, Not sure if this feed is still being checked, but I want to inquire as to your statement that you have a natural intergrade fasciata/erythrogaster. How was this assessment of its identity made? Best, - JGP