The term Tarantula and True Spider

JESTERx626

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I realize i typo'd on my thread title. It says, The term Tarantula and True Spider.

Quite simple question but it just kind of confuses me.
Are Tarantulas not spiders too?
What makes a spider a True spider?
 

Yanose

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I belive it is a matter of how the fangs of the arachnid in question work in my understanding the true spiders fangs work like pinchers pointing into each other and kind of squeezing together. Whereas a T's fangs work parallel to each other like two knives. I am not compleatly sure this is accurate any one else care to weigh in.
 

Bill S

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Araneomorphs are called "true spiders", and their chelicerae move sideways in a pincer-like manner. Calling them "true spiders" doesn't mean that other types of spiders aren't spiders. Aranus and aranea are the Latin words for spider, so the group that was named from those words is sort of the "flagship" for the whole order.

It's sort of like with insects - one group (hemiptera) got tagged with the name "true bugs". But in the popular sense, all insects are still "bugs". (Along with a range of other small creatures.)
 

Kris-wIth-a-K

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X = True Spider
l l = Tarantula

The fangs on a true spider more or less cross and the fangs of the tarantula are side by side. The difference in size is obvious as well but when slings the fangs are what you look at... so I have read..
 

Nerri1029

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T's also have ONLY Book lungs (2 pair) while many true spiders have have either one pair and spiracles or just spiracles for O2 and CO2 exchange
 

radicaldementia

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There are more differences besides the fangs.

The term "true spider" is a bit of a misnomer, since T's are in the order Araneae along with all other spiders. "True spiders", or sub-order Araneomorphae, make up the majority of spider species which include orb weavers, jumpers, and widows. Then you also have sub-order mygalomorphae, which include tarantulas, huntsman, trap-door, and a few other families.

Araneomorphs have a combination respiratory system that uses both book lungs and a tracheal passageway. T's only have book lungs. T's also have fewer spinnerets than true spiders. As far as I know, no true spider lives longer than 2-3 years, and obviously they generally much smaller.

Tarantulas and other mygalomorphs basically are like primitive spiders, and are probably the most resemblant of the spiders that lived hundreds of millions of years ago.
 

Bill S

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X = True Spider
l l = Tarantula
No, not quite. Both hold their chelicerae in about the same postition when at rest. Fangs may face different directions, but don't necessarily cross in true spiders. The picture below is the only one I had handy at the moment that showed the position of the chelicerae of a true spider, in this case an Arizona brown spider (or recluse or violin spider or whatever other name you like - Loxosceles arizonica). Notice that they are held in the l l position that Brachy mentions. However, when they are used for catching prey, they move sideways in a pincer movement, rather than the "overhead stab" that tarantulas use. However, Brachy is close in his description. In some cases the tips of the fangs themselves may cross. But that isn't a reliable feature - and not the defining one. It's the lateral pincer-like movement that is the key feature. In Spiders of North America: An Identification Manual they separate Mygalomorphs from other Opisthothelae (which includes all spiders except for mesotheles) by "Cheliceral Orientation". There may be other differences, such as book lungs, etc., but the chelicerae are the defining feature.



If I get a chance later, I'll try to post another picture that shows it better.
 
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c'est ma

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It's always a treat when you post ANY of your wife's pics, Bill!
 

Stan Schultz

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... Are Tarantulas not spiders too?
What makes a spider a True spider?
Simple question. Complex answer. Theraphosid tarantulas (the spiders we call "tarantulas" in the vernacular) are a subgroup of a much larger group called collectively the Mygalomorphae, the mygalomorph spiders. These in turn are a subgroup of the spiders, classified as the Araneae.

"True" spiders belong in a sister group called the Araneomorphae. But don't let that confuse you. Both the araneomorphs and the mygalomorphs are really "true" spiders as opposed to something that isn't a true spider. The arachnologists of the last two centuries chose those common names to differentiate them, not to question their lineage. It was a bad choice in retrospect, but they didn't know any better at the time. Now we're stuck with the designation although we know it's wrong. (It's a lot like calling Theraphosa blondi a "birdeater!")

The original "tarantula" is a wolf spider (Lycosa tarantula) from southern Europe. It became famous (or notorious) because of its supposed tendency to cause frenzied dancing during the Italian and Spanish Inquisitions, of the "That spider made me do it!" variety.

European explorers, largely ignorant of wildlife in general and spiders in particular, chose to apply the name to any large spider that they ran across. Because the theraphosid tarantulas are much more impressive than the lycosid tarantula, the name became permanently transferred, and like "true" spiders and "goliath" birdeaters, we're stuck with it.

Enjoy your your tarantula, whatever it is!
 

JESTERx626

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Thanks for the replies guys, i know i learned a lil somethin :) . Next question:

What do the many eyes of a spider/tarantula serve as a purpose? More angles of vision?
 

dragonblade71

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Radicaldementia: "Then you also have sub-order mygalomorphae, which include tarantulas, huntsman, trap-door, and a few other families."

Huntsmans are not mygalomorphs. Their fangs converge together like pliers, as with most other spiders.
 

Bill S

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Next question:

What do the many eyes of a spider/tarantula serve as a purpose? More angles of vision?
That's a simple question - but with a lot of "correct" answers. First off - not all spiders have the same number of eyes. While most have eight eyes, there are some (such as Loxosceles) that have six eyes, some have two eyes ( such as some caponids) and some that have no eyes (cave dwelling forms, for example). In some spiders, all eyes serve the same purpose - just take advantage of having more of them. Others, such as jumping spiders like Phidippus, assign different functions to different pairs of eyes. Maybe a description of how jumping spider eyes function will help partially answer your question.

Phidippus jumping spiders have two large forward facing eyes which are flanked by smaller forward-facing eyes. And they have two pairs of lateral eyes. The rearmost lateral eyes are basically motion detectors. The forward lateral eyes are probably similar, but their function isn't certain. The smaller forward-facing eyes function as range detectors - they have fields of vision that overlap (binocular vision) and have a fairly wide field of vision. They see clearly enough to help identify potential prey and gauge its distance (crucial in a spider that has to leap on its prey to capture it). The large forward facing eyes are more telescopic in function, and see in high resolution and in color. They fully identify the prey, and also function in recognition of other important factors, such as prospective mates. This is the only pair of eyes that a jumping spider can move - although it does so in a slightly different way than we move our eyes. The lenses do not move - but the retina does. All other eyes are fixed in position and can only change their view when the spider moves its whole body.

I'm not familiar with much work done with tarantula vision - but hopefully someone else can chime in with research in that field.
 
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c'est ma

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Thanks for post # 12, Bill! Very interesting, much info I did not know.
 

JESTERx626

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wow im fascinated, there's more to spiders & tarantulas than meets the eye!
 

TheyThemTheraphosidae

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Simple question. Complex answer. Theraphosid tarantulas (the spiders we call "tarantulas" in the vernacular) are a subgroup of a much larger group called collectively the Mygalomorphae, the mygalomorph spiders. These in turn are a subgroup of the spiders, classified as the Araneae.

"True" spiders belong in a sister group called the Araneomorphae. But don't let that confuse you. Both the araneomorphs and the mygalomorphs are really "true" spiders as opposed to something that isn't a true spider. The arachnologists of the last two centuries chose those common names to differentiate them, not to question their lineage. It was a bad choice in retrospect, but they didn't know any better at the time. Now we're stuck with the designation although we know it's wrong. (It's a lot like calling Theraphosa blondi a "birdeater!")

The original "tarantula" is a wolf spider (Lycosa tarantula) from southern Europe. It became famous (or notorious) because of its supposed tendency to cause frenzied dancing during the Italian and Spanish Inquisitions, of the "That spider made me do it!" variety.

European explorers, largely ignorant of wildlife in general and spiders in particular, chose to apply the name to any large spider that they ran across. Because the theraphosid tarantulas are much more impressive than the lycosid tarantula, the name became permanently transferred, and like "true" spiders and "goliath" birdeaters, we're stuck with it.

Enjoy your your tarantula, whatever it is!
Do you know of any scholarly sources or sources by arachnologists that match what you have said about mygalomorphs still being spiders? I am having a discussion with a friend about this, and they are basing their claim of tarantulas not being spiders on the statement by an entomologist professor of theirs, so I'd really like to have some sources of similar academic validity to respond.
 

arthurliuyz

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Do you know of any scholarly sources or sources by arachnologists that match what you have said about mygalomorphs still being spiders? I am having a discussion with a friend about this, and they are basing their claim of tarantulas not being spiders on the statement by an entomologist professor of theirs, so I'd really like to have some sources of similar academic validity to respond.
Araneae is an order of arachnids which we call "spiders".
Theraphosidae is a lower classification under Araneae (won't go into subfamilies), so they are "spiders" as well.
Hope that clears it up.
 

TheyThemTheraphosidae

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Araneae is an order of arachnids which we call "spiders".
Theraphosidae is a lower classification under Araneae (won't go into subfamilies), so they are "spiders" as well.
Hope that clears it up.
I know that, and told my friend that, but because their professor said that tarantulas aren't "true" spiders, this friend now interpreted that to mean that they aren't real spiders, and believes it because their professor is an entomologist, so I am looking for scholarly sources or statements by arachnologists that mygalomorphs are still real spiders, despite the terminology of "true spider" for araneomorphs.
 

AphonopelmaTX

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I know that, and told my friend that, but because their professor said that tarantulas aren't "true" spiders, this friend now interpreted that to mean that they aren't real spiders, and believes it because their professor is an entomologist, so I am looking for scholarly sources or statements by arachnologists that mygalomorphs are still real spiders, despite the terminology of "true spider" for araneomorphs.
I don't understand what the difficulty is with this professor in understanding that the arachnid order Araneae are the true spiders- thus tarantulas and other mygalomorphs are also true spiders- given that other arachnid orders have a common name which includes the word spider. However, I do understand the need for an authoritative source to support a claim. My suggestion is to head over to the web site of the American Arachnological Society (americanarachnology.org) and use their "Ask a Question" page to get an answer from a specialist. I can't think of a single scholarly source that uses common names, like "true spider", to refer anyone to.
 
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