The ‘mimicking the natural environment‘ Myth

[boina]

You read it times and times again: People are trying to ‘mimic the natural environment’ of a tarantula and think they are providing especially good care if they do so. Usually they are talking about humidity and temperatures when they do so. Biologically, this is actually nonsense and can even be dangerous nonsense and I will try to explain why. Bear with me, this is going to be long, because this needs a lecture in general ecology to understand.

So what environmental factors are there? For some strange reason people always focus on two factors:

1. Humidity

2. Temperature

But there are many others:

3. Prey availability: Even if everything else is optimal if there’s not sufficient prey a species can’t survive.

4. Predation: The existence of strong and efficient predators play a very large role in whether or not a species is able to establish a population in a certain environment.

5. Availability of suitable shelter: If a species finds no place to hide and raise offspring it can’t survive

6. Competition: If a species has to compete with another species for the same resources (food, shelter) only the stronger species will survive

7. The microbiota. This is one of the most important factors and it is very important in captivity, too, but it usually gets overlooked, so I’ll spend some time on this:

The microbiota describes the community of microscopic organisms in a certain environmental niche. Its immense effect on macro-organisms has only been researched in the last couple of decades. Basically the microbiota forms a balanced population that keeps single species, especially pathogens, in check. If you don’t have a balanced, natural microbiota and introduce a pathogen by chance then that pathogen will take over and kill anything in sight. I’m going to deduce that this is the major factor why species that need high moisture are more difficult to keep and sometimes die for seemingly no reason: you provide a pathogen friendly environment (warmth, humidity), but the natural microbiota to keep a possible pathogen in check is lacking. Therefore, providing high humidity without the microbiota is a dangerous game. Dryer, cooler environments can support much fewer pathogens and are therefore safer.

8. There are quite a few other factors but I think things are complicated enough as they are, so I’ll stop here.

Now, a combination of all these factors together determine where a certain species can survive or not. Since there are so many factors involved it is impossible to be optimally adapted to all of them.

What does adaptation even mean?

For some reason people always seem to assume that if a species survives in a certain environment all environmental factors are optimal for that species where it lives, because it adapted to live there. That is completely and comprehensively wrong. Adaptation only means a species evolved to tolerate the environmental factors it lives in. Let me repeat that because it’s so important: adaptation means tolerance, no more. Actually, all species live in conditions that are in some way or other suboptimal for the species because it’s the combination of all factors that counts and a species survives as soon as it can somehow survive and not only if everything is optimal. Evolution doesn’t create optimums, it is quite happy with just survival.

Here are some examples for survival despite obviously suboptimal environmental factors:

1. Penguins, especially Emperor penguins. Their breeding areas are in some of the most inhospitable parts of the earth. Now, do they need subzero temperatures and storms to breed? Certainly not, they can breed exceedingly well in less extreme conditions. But their breeding environment is free of predators. Here predation was the critical environmental factor. The temperatures are certainly far from optimal.

2. Fennecs. They are the smallest of the African wild dog species and as such they can’t compete with larger species for prey and territory. Therefore they live in the dry desert regions where other, larger species can’t survive. Do they need these dry conditions to survive? Most certainly not, they do much better in a somewhat more humid environment. Competition is the critical factor, but humidity is far from optimal.

I’m absolutely baffled by the fact that so many keepers of tarantulas focus on two of the most arbitrary environmental factors, namely humidity and temperatures.

Of course, you can’t completely disregard temperatures and humidity values of the natural environment. You can’t raise penguins in the desert or Fennecs in a swamp. But most species – and this includes tarantulas – have a very wide range of temperature and humidity requirements that still constitute ‘optimal’ conditions, especially since temperatures and humidity are fluctuating wildly in most environmental niches, not only on a yearly, but even on a daily level. Citing average temps and humidity of a certain place and then trying to adhere to that in captivity is about as absurd as it gets.

TL; DR: Keep any spider somewhere between 20 and 30°C / 70 to 90F and further information on humidity can be found here: Air humidity vs. dampness of substrate

 

[viper69]

#6 is a good one. A scientist I know has observed GBBs living in trees due to various natural stresses.

 

[Jesse607]

I can't imagine people trying to mimic the natural environment of Aphonopelma chalcodes, or any other North American Aphonopelma for that matter. They would either cook them or freeze them lol. Here in the AZ low desert, we have temps well above 100F for months at a time, and several frosts in the winter! Our humidity bounces around between 5-90% (usually closer to 5%). Burrows make an amazing buffer to the outside environment!

 

[Venom1080]

So trying to make a super natural cage with plants, etc. Is just a waste of time?

 

[boina]

So trying to make a super natural cage with plants, etc. Is just a waste of time?

I don't know, really. I actually just had a somewhat heated discussion with my biologist friend about this topic. She's all for as natural as possible and I'm more for the pragmatic approach. The problem is that in all to many cases we don't know which part of nature the animal in question really needs or benefits from and which part of nature is actually more of a disadvantage, something the animal only survives because it has to.

 

[Nightstalker47]

This is great, concise and clear...hopefully this demystifies most of the credence to the claims we see all too often. People love to replicate things they observe in nature and assume their spider will benefit from it. Uneducated assumptions can be downright dangerous.

Ill keep this handy next time this topic comes up.

 

[Leila]

I absolutely adore how much of a nerd you are- sincerely. You are fantastic, boina. Great information as usual. Much appreciated.

 

[Venom1080]

I don't know, really. I actually just had a somewhat heated discussion with my biologist friend about this topic. She's all for as natural as possible and I'm more for the pragmatic approach. The problem is that in all to many cases we don't know which part of nature the animal in question really needs or benefits from and which part of nature is actually more of a disadvantage, something the animal only survives because it has to.

So, this is basically your argument on how natural enclosures aren't useful..

Can we hear your friends side of things? I'm friends with a couple guys who are really big on natural enclosures. Just curious.

 

[boina]

I absolutely adore how much of a nerd you are- sincerely. You are fantastic, boina. Great information as usual. Much appreciated.

Hey Leila, nice to see you are still around - and thank you

 

[Leila]

So, this is basically your argument on how natural enclosures aren't useful..

Can we hear your friends side of things? I'm friends with a couple guys who are really big on natural enclosures. Just curious.

I mean, dude, if you are going to go all natural, follow suit: (TOTAL SARCASM, my lovely friend) I'm talking 100 gal tank, a system that mimics drought or vice versa, and so on. Get with it, pal..

 

[boina]

So, this is basically your argument on how natural enclosures aren't useful..

Can we hear your friends side of things? I'm friends with a couple guys who are really big on natural enclosures. Just curious.

No, I'm not against natural enclosures, I'm just saying this focus on temps and humidity doesn't makes sense and can even be detrimental.

The argument went like this:

Starting point: We don't really know what a certain species really needs. This is a fact.

1. My approach: Keep it simple. Don't add a lot of variables, you don't know if what you are doing is actually beneficial or detrimental, since it is impossible to put all of nature into an enclosure.

2. Her approach: Add as many natural variables as you can. The closer you get to the natural environment the more likely you are to get things right. You will not know what part of nature your animal in question is missing if you don't have it in the enclosure since we are not able to assess the mental well being of most animals, especially not inverts.

Edit: And yes, her point involves 100 gal tanks - at least. She is very critical of keeping tarantulas in 10 gal 'boxes'.

 

[Jesse607]

So, this is basically your argument on how natural enclosures aren't useful..

Can we hear your friends side of things? I'm friends with a couple guys who are really big on natural enclosures. Just curious.

For aesthetics, that's different, but it "benefits" us more than the organism in question. Aesthetics is not a waste of time if the keeper values it. However, keep in mind, when it comes to most tarantulas, they live in burrows that buffer them from the surroundings, and they don't venture far from them (except adult males). Even here in the low deserts of Arizona, the humidity and temps within a creatures burrow is much different than what's outside. Also, people must keep in mind that most, if not all, tarantulas are nocturnal and nighttime temps are usually much lower than daytime highs. So, it seems to me, that mimicking the tarantulas natural environment, would essentially be mimicking a hole in the ground or crevice in a tree, and not much more complicated than that. Now again, making the outside of the burrow look like "the wild" is not a waste of time, if that's what the keeper wants to do, but it is not necessary to keep the tarantula alive and healthy.

 

[Jesse607]

Edit: And yes, her point involves 100 gal tanks - at least. She is very critical of keeping tarantulas in 10 gal 'boxes'.

Does she realize that in nature they live in a burrow essentially their whole lives...of which they sit outside of waiting for prey to wander by. How much space is that? lol

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

So trying to make a super natural cage with plants, etc. Is just a waste of time?

In short, yes it is. There is aesthetically natural and there is setting up a tarantula cage in a way that causes natural behavior in a tarantula. When considering the former, setting up a cage that has plants, rocks, certain soil types, and so on doesn't do anything for the tarantula at all if their needs are not met. They are done for the aesthetic pleasure of the keeper who fools himself or herself into thinking they are recreating a biotope. They are not for the reasons @boina outlined. To get natural behavior from a tarantula it is best to know how a particular species utilizes their environment. Most tarantulas that are referred to as terrestrial in captivity are fossorial in nature and most fossorial tarantulas in nature can be kept without being setup to allow digging. When it comes to arboreal tarantulas, in nature most arboreal species live in holes in the trunks of trees or under bark but in captivity they adapt pretty well to hiding behind a piece of cork bark and one starts seeing more unnatural behavior such as the making of "dirt curtains" around the cork bark or they are always stuck to the walls of the cage.

It doesn't matter how natural one may think their cage looks by adding a bunch of plants and pieces of wood when their naturally fossorial species is out in the open all of the time or their arboreal tarantula is always out and stuck to the side of the cage. Those behaviors are not how tarantulas live in the wild, but how they adapt to captive conditions where all of the space and environmental conditions are taken away.

Edit: It looks like while I was writing this post, @jezzy607 made points along the same idea.

 

[Venom1080]

No, I'm not against natural enclosures, I'm just saying this focus on temps and humidity doesn't makes sense and can even be detrimental.

The argument went like this:

Starting point: We don't really know what a certain species really needs. This is a fact.

1. My approach: Keep it simple. Don't add a lot of variables, you don't know if what you are doing is actually beneficial or detrimental, since it is impossible to put all of nature into an enclosure.

2. Her approach: Add as many natural variables as you can. The closer you get to the natural environment the more likely you are to get things right. You will not know what part of nature your animal in question is missing if you don't have it in the enclosure since we are not able to assess the mental well being of most animals, especially not inverts.

Edit: And yes, her point involves 100 gal tanks - at least. She is very critical of keeping tarantulas in 10 gal 'boxes'.

Oh, well, for sure.

Focusing on temps and humidity % isn't very useful. But looking at how they live in the wild and replicating that would surely be better than what we make them make do with in captivity, no?

Ex a actual hollow for arboreals. Instead of a slab of bark and anchor points.

I find it interesting how Phormingochilus and Lampropelma are observed living in trees in the wild, yet burrow so much in captivity that we consider them semi arboreal. Has anyone actually found one of these guys living in a burrow in the wild?

Merely putting a plant in a cage and saying you keep them better than others is absurd. I think there are a few more steps you need to take.

 

[boina]

Oh, well, for sure.

Focusing on temps and humidity % isn't very useful. But looking at how they live in the wild and replicating that would surely be better than what we make them make do with in captivity, no?

Ex a actual hollow for arboreals. Instead of a slab of bark and anchor points.

I find it interesting how Phormingochilus and Lampropelma are observed living in trees in the wild, yet burrow so much in captivity that we consider them semi arboreal. Has anyone actually found one of these guys living in a burrow in the wild?

Merely putting a plant in a cage and saying you keep them better than others is absurd. I think there are a few more steps you need to take.

Yes, but this goes back to the original argument: How do you know they prefer living in trees? Maybe they live in trees to escape predators. Maybe they'd burrow as much in nature as in captivity but can't because they get chased off by predators or pests or competitors. We don't know. I think we can only observe how they behave in captivity, experiment a bit with different setups perhaps, and find out what works best.

Yes, I strongly believe that proper hiding options are important. I also like to experiment with different setups, like arboreal or semi-arboreal for my Asians and Tapis but I honestly don't see much of a difference in behaviour. My L. sp. Borneo Black has an arboreal setup with a nice cork round and a selection of other cork slabs for hiding and what does she do? Dig a burrow under all of it . The L. nigerrimum made much better use of the angled cork slabs in her semi-arboreal setup. It's just not that simple.

 

[cold blood]

She's all for as natural as possible and I'm more for the pragmatic approach.

My issue is that natural conditions just aren't really possible, and as stated, not as "friendly" to the animal.

What we should be aiming for is ideal conditions, which in nature are fleeting, and often rare. Most of what wild animals deal with, most of the time, are less than ideal to poor conditions.


Then there's the over-looked things because we only usually read about home ranges. For instance people from over seas might think, well AZ is 60-100 with X amount of humidity and aim for that with confidence....but fail to address the wet monsoon seasons, or the cold frosty winter nights hovering at freezing temps. Or the fact that these things induce a burrowing that we just don't see in captivity with many, if not most terrestrials, as TX was saying.


Keeping it simple, as you suggest boina (as well as what I would think would be the majority of experienced keepers), keeps the t under what amounts to ideal conditions....hence our faster growth rates and survival rates, which in captivity are ridiculously high.


And as said, many ts, especially ground dwellers (which could include many arboreals), don't actually use a lot of space or do a lot of roaming...

For example, there were a cluster of B. vagans released into an orange grove in Florida in the 70's....some 40+ years later, that colony is still alive and well, and still not just in the same orange grove, but the same small part of that orange grove....they basically haven't even gone across the street in 40+ years. Some use of space....its why we often say over-size enclosures aren't ideal because they are a total waste of space.

Ex a actual hollow for arboreals

I have a hollowed out tree trunk type thing in with one of my regalis. I have seen it in there 3 times in the last 2 years.

 

[FrDoc]

I believe the environment influences behavior element in this discussion is tremendously interesting, and demonstrated in the continual, seemingly contradictory descriptions of markedly different habits exhibited by tarantulas of the same species, e.g., “My ______ is constantly out in the open.” “My (same species) is constantly hidden.” So, it is arguable that each individual animal reacts and behaves in a way that is greatly influenced by the environment in which it is kept, not always in accord with what is perceived to be what it “needs”.

I love these kinds of threads! What a break from, “My curly hair is in her hide and won’t eat”.

 

[EDED]

interesting thread, we could forever touching on other subjects that are relate to this topic

i always find it funny when people suggest very large surface area for a burrowing T from Asia. when it prefers a tight burrow enough room to molt and stretch.
I also get upset when STILL people post (mainly on FB) Hysterocrates diving in the water. As if it's necessary for its well being.

I have seen successful keepers worldwide keeping Ts in tight food container , dirt and a hide. When i say successful it means; the spiders eats, molts, poops and more importantly breeds in certain setup. I would feel then satisfied that I have created optimum environment for the T.

i can see adding things to help with maintenance, live plants, T. tomentosa culture, etc all that

or just for decoration.

I think, in my opinion people will do what they want to do, and they should do what they feel like or what we feel like. its your pet you spent good money and time on so why not enjoy whatever you think its best for you and the T.
another point,,Live feeding, people will do it, only gets heated when somone posts lol, just dont post haha
live feeding is more natural right?
read an article a long time ago ,,,i think it was E. pulcherimakere bl albah one of those that i do not keep lol, the article had its obervation report for several years, the author tried captive breeding in the lab which failed (probably crappy set up) and the most interesting part was that after mating and seasonal change they noticed several remains of one particular local beetle species from the burrow for several months. <<< does that mean we must feed that beetle for its optimum living? i dont know..

I know this is important to mimic however; seasonal variaitons. Some species need temp/ humidity changes in order to molt on time and more importantly to breed successfully in captivity.

I think i got carried away and not focused with original topic hahah but like i said its an interesting post and so many topics can be said from it.

oh also ive been going to south Texas each summer for collecting some Ts and inverts. Holy crap its hot down there and each time was unusually rainy season. It was like a sauna
I brought my pretty good/accurate humidity/temperature probe/monitor to check surface level values and inside the burrow.
it wasnt that cooler in the burrow and super humid , for both anax and moderatum

temperature and humidity are important,
even if we do not know its natural habitat or data available, from trial and error, us hobbyists could create optimum set up for each species and we have already done so.

my place is good at keeping and breeding asian arboreals and burrowers. and of course those are main hobby. however ive made a mistake ending with deaths sadly that certain scorpions, Ts, and centipedes do not like it cooler temp. Different species different metabolism.

 

[Venom1080]

Yes, but this goes back to the original argument: How do you know they prefer living in trees? Maybe they live in trees to escape predators. Maybe they'd burrow as much in nature as in captivity but can't because they get chased off by predators or pests or competitors. We don't know. I think we can only observe how they behave in captivity, experiment a bit with different setups perhaps, and find out what works best.

Yes, I strongly believe that proper hiding options are important. I also like to experiment with different setups, like arboreal or semi-arboreal for my Asians and Tapis but I honestly don't see much of a difference in behaviour. My L. sp. Borneo Black has an arboreal setup with a nice cork round and a selection of other cork slabs for hiding and what does she do? Dig a burrow under all of it . The L. nigerrimum made much better use of the angled cork slabs in her semi-arboreal setup. It's just not that simple.

Then it's time to experiment.

interesting thread, we could forever touching on other subjects that are relate to this topic

i always find it funny when people suggest very large surface area for a burrowing T from Asia. when it prefers a tight burrow enough room to molt and stretch.
I also get upset when STILL people post (mainly on FB) Hysterocrates diving in the water. As if it's necessary for its well being.

I have seen successful keepers worldwide keeping Ts in tight food container , dirt and a hide. When i say successful it means; the spiders eats, molts, poops and more importantly breeds in certain setup. I would feel then satisfied that I have created optimum environment for the T.

i can see adding things to help with maintenance, live plants, T. tomentosa culture, etc all that

or just for decoration.

I think, in my opinion people will do what they want to do, and they should do what they feel like or what we feel like. its your pet you spent good money and time on so why not enjoy whatever you think its best for you and the T.
another point,,Live feeding, people will do it, only gets heated when somone posts lol, just dont post haha
live feeding is more natural right?
read an article a long time ago ,,,i think it was E. pulcherimakere bl albah one of those that i do not keep lol, the article had its obervation report for several years, the author tried captive breeding in the lab which failed (probably crappy set up) and the most interesting part was that after mating and seasonal change they noticed several remains of one particular local beetle species from the burrow for several months. <<< does that mean we must feed that beetle for its optimum living? i dont know..

I know this is important to mimic however; seasonal variaitons. Some species need temp/ humidity changes in order to molt on time and more importantly to breed successfully in captivity.

I think i got carried away and not focused with original topic hahah but like i said its an interesting post and so many topics can be said from it.

oh also ive been going to south Texas each summer for collecting some Ts and inverts. Holy crap its hot down there and each time was unusually rainy season. It was like a sauna
I brought my pretty good/accurate humidity/temperature probe/monitor to check surface level values and inside the burrow.
it wasnt that cooler in the burrow and super humid , for both anax and moderatum

temperature and humidity are important,
even if we do not know its natural habitat or data available, from trial and error, us hobbyists could create optimum set up for each species and we have already done so.

my place is good at keeping and breeding asian arboreals and burrowers. and of course those are main hobby. however ive made a mistake ending with deaths sadly that certain scorpions, Ts, and centipedes do not like it cooler temp. Different species different metabolism.

Besides Poecilotheria, what species need significant changes in temperature or humidity to breed well?