T Climate Control (/me pulls hair out!!!)

[Helios909]

Okay I don't know how everyone does it. I have followed the directions of articles, care sheets, forum posts/threads/suggestions, and it just isn't working.

My climate as of right now (outside) is -36C, humidity 11%. Inside my place I am keeping it at 17C, and I am running a ceramic 1500W space heater which keeps the room with my T enclosure at 20-21C. I currently have a 1L container of water in front of the heater that is evaporated daily and replaced. I wet the substrate every day, I have a large flat water dish in the enclosure, and I've covered 90% of the ventilation in the enclosure, and the humidity stays inside the enclosure at around 16 to 20%. How on EARTH am I supposed to get the humidity to between 60-85%?????

My T appears comfortable, and eats every second day (I know, I'm gorging her), but I'm worried about a molt that she's not going to have enough moisture. What the heck does it take to keep the humidity up in the damn thing???

Please, suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Teal]

If you are relying on a gauge to tell you your humidity.. don't

I don't have any gauges on my Ts, and I haven't had a single molt problem yet (*keeps fingers crossed*).

 

[Exo]

Okay I don't know how everyone does it. I have followed the directions of articles, care sheets, forum posts/threads/suggestions, and it just isn't working.

My climate as of right now (outside) is -36C, humidity 11%. Inside my place I am keeping it at 17C, and I am running a ceramic 1500W space heater which keeps the room with my T enclosure at 20-21C. I currently have a 1L container of water in front of the heater that is evaporated daily and replaced. I wet the substrate every day, I have a large flat water dish in the enclosure, and I've covered 90% of the ventilation in the enclosure, and the humidity stays inside the enclosure at around 16 to 20%. How on EARTH am I supposed to get the humidity to between 60-85%?????

My T appears comfortable, and eats every second day (I know, I'm gorging her), but I'm worried about a molt that she's not going to have enough moisture. What the heck does it take to keep the humidity up in the damn thing???

Please, suggestions are appreciated.

Important question: what species of T is it?

 

[Moltar]

You may or may not feel it's warranted for only one T but have you considered purchasing a humidifier? If you hang out or sleep in the same room as the T it would also be good for your health. You can get a decent one for about $50 here in the states.

My setup is simple; The T's (about 60 of them) have their own room. It gets the same heat as the rest of the house which is between 68F-70F, no supplemental space heaters. The room gets a lot of sun against the outside wall so sometimes it spikes up to 80 or so in the afternoon. There is a wick type humidifier in there that struggles to keep the wintertime humidity above 45%. With a room RH of 45% keeping the more tropical T's closer to 60-65% by soaking their substrate is easy enough.

Important question; what species of tarantula do you have? There are plenty of species out there that do fine in low humidity and others that do not. IMO there are only a very few species that require humidity at or above 80%. Care sheets tend to get stuff wrong, particularly RH. How do you wet the substrate? Do you just mist or are you soaking part of the substrate? BTW the space heater is probably drying out the room more than the water pan is humidifying it.

Where are you that it's already -36C? That's COLD!

Edit: you could also try filling a large, shallow pan (like a 1" deep baking sheet) patially full with small gravel and pour water into it. Keep the T's cage right over this pan, creating sort of a micro-climate. People use this for things like tropical plants, etc. I have a couple of my Avi's sitting on one right now. I imagine that it helps anyway, not sure if it really does or not.

Ditto on gauges being mostly useless, btw. I use one for room RH but I don't monitor individual cages

 

[Helios909]

Firstly it's an Avicularia avicularia. I'm not sure of the age, and I'm 90% sure of the sex (F), but she's around 3".

Yes, I am going by a digital hygrometer with the sensor positioned as centrally in the enclosure as possible. When I breathe on it, the humidity increases, so it has some accuracy I suppose. Lets say that it's not very accurate, it would make sense that to get about 70% actual humidity that it would read somewhere in the 30's or 40's perhaps? I can't imagine that the humidity is very high when it's reading less than 20%. There is no condensation or visible moisture anywhere in the enclosure, except after I have just dampened the substrate and misted. To answer a question, I do both, I pour some water on the substrate in one area, and then mist everything else.

Anyway, I'm in northern Alberta and we just set some records here for lowest temperatures (I think it got to around -44C). The humidity is that of the Gobi Desert around here, and although it fluctuates during the winter, we will have serious cold spells like the one we're in now.

I agree about the space heater drying out the room. The water evaporating was merely trying to compensate for it. I may have to invest in a humidifier, but I certainly don't want condensate all over my windows and walls. Since all other methods of heating T enclosures are frowned upon, I don't really have any other option for keeping the heat higher other than heating the room. And because it would cost me a fortune to heat the rest of my place to a happy temperature for the T, I can only afford to heat the room it's in, an even just that is costing me $30/month extra on my electrical bill.

Not being able to control the temperature and humidity locally within the enclosure I must say is a frustrating thing I wasn't really fully aware of when I got my first T. I'm learning how difficult it is given the climate I live in.

 

[JimM]

I built a large cabinet that I heat, works like a charm and you can construct it to fit your needs.

 

[Big B]

I also built a cabinet that is controlled by a thermostat. I also use styrofoam sheets cut to the size to cover the top of the cage. This keeps in the humidity. You can uncover it to adjust the desired level.

 

[Dom]

I built a large cabinet that I heat, works like a charm and you can construct it to fit your needs.

+1
I place a container of water in the cabinet (old gecko cage) to help boost humidity. I've built 3 shelves in it. They're wood border with wire mesh interior to allow easy heat/air circulation. 2 shelves are heated with heat rope and one shelf is heated with heat tape. The heat tape is on a dimmer. The heat rope is 25 watts and the heat tape is probably 20 watts and it heats the unit 10-15F above the room temp. Humidity is easier to control and if it's high it won't wreak havoc with your windows/paint/mold problems etc.

 

[forrestpengra]

Depending on how many and how big your spiders are you could do what I did, since I don't have room right now for a whole cabinet.

Take an empty aquarium slap a heat mat on it on one side underneath. Put coco or soil or whatever over it. Get it pretty moist. Put your spider(s) inside on the non-heated side. Cover atleast most if not all of the tank to keep in some heat/moisture. You will need to open periodically to allow air exchange. I have mine in an exoterra which has vents on the bottom and side opening doors.

This will create an incubator of sorts capable of maintaining 75ish with 75-80humidy.

If you have a ton of spiders consider a 'wardrobe' with shelves, line with 1" foam insulation. Put a ceramic heating bulb in the bottom, with holes in the shelves to move the heat from bottom to top. You could also throw a humidifier in there operated by a zoomed hygrostat, which will also control the temperature.

Now I remember why I moved back to Ontario from Alberta. -40C actually HURTS!!! I got pnemonia from running in it due to ice crystal buildup in the lungs and was out of commision for 2 months.

 

[Moltar]

Take an empty aquarium slap a heat mat on it on one side underneath. Put coco or soil or whatever over it. Get it pretty moist. Put your spider(s) inside on the non-heated side. Cover atleast most if not all of the tank to keep in some heat/moisture. You will need to open periodically to allow air exchange. I have mine in an exoterra which has vents on the bottom and side opening doors.

This will create an incubator of sorts capable of maintaining 75ish with 75-80humidy.

If you have a ton of spiders consider a 'wardrobe' with shelves, line with 1" foam insulation. Put a ceramic heating bulb in the bottom, with holes in the shelves to move the heat from bottom to top. You could also throw a humidifier in there operated by a zoomed hygrostat, which will also control the temperature.

I agree that these options are also viable. Any setup that keeps the T just a bit separate from the heating source will generally be acceptable. You just want to avoid a light shining directly on the tank or a heatpad on the bottom of the tank.

 

[erika357]

Where I am from it gets really cold, although it is not -44. One thing that helps us keep the heating bill down and reduces drafts in the invert room is that we put big sheets of plastic over the windows. Then the heater doesn't have to run as much because the cold doesn't get in as easily. As far as humidity, we have a humidifier running in the room and is set to keep the room about 45%-50% humidity. It is a pain because we need to fill it up a couple of times a day. I have never noticed any condensation on the walls or windows. Then we still mist the cages and provide water dishes to increase the humidity even more.

 

[Helios909]

Where I am from it gets really cold, although it is not -44. One thing that helps us keep the heating bill down and reduces drafts in the invert room is that we put big sheets of plastic over the windows. Then the heater doesn't have to run as much because the cold doesn't get in as easily. As far as humidity, we have a humidifier running in the room and is set to keep the room about 45%-50% humidity. It is a pain because we need to fill it up a couple of times a day. I have never noticed any condensation on the walls or windows. Then we still mist the cages and provide water dishes to increase the humidity even more.

Yeah I actually have a box of those things just haven't installed them yet. I will have to buy a humidifier too. I don't see any other way of keeping the humidity up. Did you get the "cold mist" one? Traditionally the ones I have owned in the past are the hot mist style, which would assist in the heating thing too, but cool mist has less likelyhood of forming condensate I would think. Your opinion?

BTW, just kinda throwing this in here. Any idea of the sex and age based on these pictures?

Avic Avic

I hope I haven't given him/her a name that doesn't match the sex!!

 

[robd]

I keep my T's and my iguana in a standard sized bedroom... infact it's even downstairs in a basement. I took robc's tip to plexiglass off the window and I added my own spin on it by putting some Frost King insulation tape along the border of the plexiglass. My house is regularly at 75 degrees F and I shut all the vents upstairs that don't belong to the T room. That room stays at 80 as a result and the hot air still seeps through the vents a little to keep the rest of the house warm. It hasn't really affected my energy bill either. Putting the A/C on is what whoops my energy bill's ass.

What I have noticed that is an important factor in keeping humidity in a room is the dry air that can seep in. I bought a plastic draft protector for the door but that didn't quite do the trick. I was only getting at best 40% humidity. Then I took a wet bath towel and put it at the bottom of the door after I closed it. Now... so long as I keep my 2 humidifiers refilled, I regularly have 70% or better humidity in the entire room. The humidity is definitely important for the B lateralis colony I have going. The towel stays wet for awhile too since outside the room is like 70 degrees I think.

 

[Helios909]

robd,

What kind of humidifier do you use? Cold or hot mist?

 

[Stan Schultz]

Northern Alberta, eh? What town or region? Now you know why we winter in Texas!



That's a palm tree in the distance, by the way!

... What the heck does it take to keep the humidity up in the damn thing??? ...

The relative humidity in the cage is a balance between the water that evaporates from the water dish, the substrate, and possibly your misting; and the degree of ventilation that's allowed because ventilation will tend to waft away any accumulating humidity.

This immediately suggests either or both of two solutions:

1. Increase the size or number of water dishes.

2. Reduce ventilation.

Interestingly, while the relative humidity published by the weather service may be 11%, the humidity in your home is probably a lot higher, thanks to you and your family's breathing, cooking, bathing/showering, evaporation from fish tanks and house plants, even evaporation from the toilet. And, because houses too are made virtually ventilation proof to conserve heat in winter and air conditioning in summer, relative humidity tends to rise as the result of reduced ventilation.

The party line is that the Avicularia require both high humidity and good ventilation, but the extremely cold, dry conditions that you endure (I feel your pain. We're from Calgary.) must preclude those care instructions. You have to do what you have to do.

For what it's worth, even the Avicularia are capable of adjusting to fairly dry conditions and/or low ventilation if given a little time. If you've had this tarantula for more than a month or two it's probably already settled into its new home. Now all you need is to fine tune its caging and care. Cover 95% of the cage opening and check the humidity a day later. If that's not enough, cover 98 to 100% and check again. When we were keeping Avicularia and Iridopelma in Calgary we kept their cages 99 to 100% covered and had no significant problems.

Incidentally, don't put too much faith in published humidity levels for tarantulas, partly because this is really vague witch-doctory in the first place, and partly because almost all tarantulas are easily capable of adapting to almost any reasonable humidity. And, what might be a "reasonable" humidity? That question has been known to cause flame wars that rivaled the American Revolution! Fortunately, because tarantulas as so adaptable, the correct answer is almost so broad that it very nearly makes the original question meaningless.

Enjoy your subarctic tarantulas!

(BTW, those of the rest of you who are shivering at the thought of this discussion, Alberta is really a very nice place to live except when we get these cold fronts over the pole from Siberia. In Summer the evenings are cool (mid 40s to 50s, good for sleeping), but the daytime temps rise into the 80s and 90s F. In winter, at least in Calgary, evening temperatures drop well below freezing, but daytime temps often hover between freezing and 50° F. It's not Miami, Brownsville, or San Diego, but it's easily bearable. Bonus: Cockroaches are very rare, and we only have mosquitoes three months a year!)

 

[rvtjonny]

I picked up a 20 gallon long tank, a piece of plexi from home depot, also have a Zoo Med heat mat, Zoo Med Repti Temp and Zilla meter. the plexi is cut to size and drill vent holes on the bottom so the heat don't escape.
The heat mat is on the back wall (but its really the bottom of the tank)
**never put a T on top of a heat mat

 

[BCscorp]

Hey fellow Canuck
Relax, your spider will survive at 21 degrees celcius... if you can up the temp a few degrees, that would be good but isnt crucial.
Just mist the sides of the enclosure every other day and all will be fine.

Firstly it's an Avicularia avicularia. I'm not sure of the age, and I'm 90% sure of the sex (F), but she's around 3".

Yes, I am going by a digital hygrometer with the sensor positioned as centrally in the enclosure as possible. When I breathe on it, the humidity increases, so it has some accuracy I suppose. Lets say that it's not very accurate, it would make sense that to get about 70% actual humidity that it would read somewhere in the 30's or 40's perhaps? I can't imagine that the humidity is very high when it's reading less than 20%. There is no condensation or visible moisture anywhere in the enclosure, except after I have just dampened the substrate and misted. To answer a question, I do both, I pour some water on the substrate in one area, and then mist everything else.

Anyway, I'm in northern Alberta and we just set some records here for lowest temperatures (I think it got to around -44C). The humidity is that of the Gobi Desert around here, and although it fluctuates during the winter, we will have serious cold spells like the one we're in now.

I agree about the space heater drying out the room. The water evaporating was merely trying to compensate for it. I may have to invest in a humidifier, but I certainly don't want condensate all over my windows and walls. Since all other methods of heating T enclosures are frowned upon, I don't really have any other option for keeping the heat higher other than heating the room. And because it would cost me a fortune to heat the rest of my place to a happy temperature for the T, I can only afford to heat the room it's in, an even just that is costing me $30/month extra on my electrical bill.

Not being able to control the temperature and humidity locally within the enclosure I must say is a frustrating thing I wasn't really fully aware of when I got my first T. I'm learning how difficult it is given the climate I live in.

 

[Stan Schultz]

I picked up a 20 gallon long tank, a piece of plexi from home depot, ...

This has got to be one of the best ideas I've seen yet for keeping a small collection of tarantulas under non-ambient conditions. I'm going to bookmark this thread for future referral of others!

Way to go! :clap:

 

[JC]

I picked up a 20 gallon long tank, a piece of plexi from home depot, also have a Zoo Med heat mat, Zoo Med Repti Temp and Zilla meter. the plexi is cut to size and drill vent holes on the bottom so the heat don't escape.
The heat mat is on the back wall (but its really the bottom of the tank)
**never put a T on top of a heat mat

Very good job.

 

[Helios909]

I must say I've got some great suggestions here. I can't say that I would be building any kind enclosure for my single tarantula at this time, but if I end up getting more it's a great idea to do. Thanks everyone for their replies. And feel free to give me your input on whether my Avic is M or F (no one ever seems to reply in the sexing forum). The pictures are near the bottom of page 1.