Strange leg problems, declining rapidly

EvilTrailMix

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
96
I'm afraid I'm losing my 5" female B. auratum, one of my favorite girls. I've been spidering since the 90s, but haven't come across this personally before. Posting here to document, and see if anyone else has experienced something similar, or has any suggestions.

History: Purchased June, 2020, previous owner said her last molt was around June, 2020. She has not molted in my care and is not currently in premolt.

Age: Unknown. Previous owner said he thought she was about 6-7. Don't know if he had her 6-7 years, or was guessing based on her size.

Enclosure: Lorex Plastics, 18" x 8" x 8", drilled/laser ventilation holes, no screen. 5.25" of space from the substrate to the lid. She's been in this enclosure for almost a year.
B. auratum enclosure.png B. auratum enclosure2.png

Feeders: Dubia and red runner roaches from my colonies, no outside feeders. I feed my large, slow growing species once every few months or so. She has not been fed for around 1-2 months.

Water: Tap, same as the rest of my spiders.

Leading up to the following events, nothing has changed in her environment. No new feeders, water, chemicals or sprays, no unusual activity near her enclosure or in the house. I have 500+ other spiders at the moment, and none are showing these behaviors. I live alone in a single family home, nobody sprays in or around the house for bugs. My dog is on monthly pills for flea/tick/heartworm prevention, no flea collars or topicals.

June 27, 2021: Noticed she had removed one of her pedipalps. She was still bleeding, recent amputation. She is normally a very calm spider, but when I opened the lid, she tore around the enclosure in a hair kicking frenzy. I left her alone.

June 28, 2021: She removed one of her legs. Again, she was still bleeding, recent amputation. (Both amputations clotted off normally, as expected from legs.) Later on in the day, leg 1 was sticking straight up and leg 2 was sticking straight out. She was and still is unable to bend them or use them to walk. Her back pair of legs are also mostly immobile. She is very weak and lethargic.
B. auratum injury.png B. auratum injury4.png

June 29, 2021: No change. I disabled a small roach and dropped it near her. She moved away from it as quickly as she could, which was not very quickly.

June 30, 2021: Found her crumpled in the corner of the enclosure. She responds to touch, but is very weak. Her mouth is clean and dry, no smell. I tried flipping her the rest of the way upside down to administer water droplets to her mouth, but she was strong enough to resist this and was able to right herself. Earlier today, leg 2 was sticking straight up in the air. It's gone down, but legs 1 and 2 are both still "stuck" straight out, and she's unable to bend or use them. Back pair of legs also still seem mostly paralyzed.
B. auratum injury2.png B. auratum injury3.png

I will continue to document her progress, whichever way this goes.
 
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Smotzer

ArachnoGod
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Jan 17, 2020
Messages
5,455
I wouldnt have touched it while it was trying to be on its back/side it may have been preparing to molt. Your best bet is to just keep water dish filled , maybe add a second one and let it be, interfering is only going to potentially create more problem as there is really nothing you can physically do anyway. Nature has to take its course.
 

EvilTrailMix

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
96
I wouldnt have touched it while it was trying to be on its back/side it may have been preparing to molt. Your best bet is to just keep water dish filled , maybe add a second one and let it be, interfering is only going to potentially create more problem as there is really nothing you can physically do anyway. Nature has to take its course.
Double check the bald patch on her abdomen; she's definitely not anywhere near a molt. I assume she fell or slid down the wall of the enclosure onto her side, as she was on the wall last night (second picture). Been trying to leave her as undisturbed as possible.
 

Smotzer

ArachnoGod
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
5,455
Double check the bald patch on her abdomen; she's definitely not anywhere near a molt. I assume she fell or slid down the wall of the enclosure onto her side, as she was on the wall last night (second picture). Been trying to leave her as undisturbed as possible.
If she suffered some injury she may be trying to emergency molt to fix the issue, I should have been more clear.
 

RoachCoach

Arachnodemon
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
708
Sounds like you are doing all and everything in your ability to help. Hope it turns out well. Only thing I do different is distilled water. I even drink my own tap water. But I'm too afraid to give it to my bugs/spiders.
 

joossa

Arachnobaron
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
333
Oh! I am so sorry you are going through this. Sending you positive vibes!
 

Marlana

Arachnoknight
Joined
Mar 27, 2020
Messages
211
So I’ve seen this in jumping spiders but not tarantulas. I think it’s a problem with circulation. Sometimes spiders lose 2-4 legs and recover. Sometimes they die. It’s really odd and heartbreaking. Just keep nursing her the best you can. Hopefully if she can get to a molt, that might solve it. I’ve only seen it in jumping spider adults and they can’t molt again so no idea what the prognosis with a molt is.
 

EvilTrailMix

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
96
Thank you, that's interesting to hear. I've been wondering about it being a hemolymph pressure control issue, though it seems odd that only some of the legs are affected. I'll keep my fingers crossed she'll be able to make a recovery.
 

Rigor Mortis

Arachnobaron
Joined
Nov 7, 2018
Messages
490
I know you've been a keeper for a long time so this might seem like an insulting question, but is it at all possible she's been exposed to a chemical? I remember seeing a few threads before of folks whose spiders displayed the same "leg sticking up, not very responsive" behaviour and it was deduced that they had been poisoned on accident. I would hope that's not the case here but that's the first thing that came to mind. Best of luck to your girl.
 

8 legged

Arachnoprince
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
1,078
I'm afraid I'm losing my 5" female B. auratum, one of my favorite girls. I've been spidering since the 90s, but haven't come across this personally before. Posting here to document, and see if anyone else has experienced something similar, or has any suggestions.

History: Purchased July, 2020, previous owner said her last molt was around June, 2020. She has not molted in my care and is not currently in premolt.

Age: Unknown. Previous owner said he thought she was about 6-7. Don't know if he had her 6-7 years, or was guessing based on her size.

Enclosure: Lorex Plastics, 18" x 8" x 8", drilled/laser ventilation holes, no screen. 5.25" of space from the substrate to the lid. She's been in this enclosure for almost a year.
View attachment 389859 View attachment 389860

Feeders: Dubia and red runner roaches from my colonies, no outside feeders. I feed my large, slow growing species once every few months or so. She has not been fed for around 1-2 months.

Water: Tap, same as the rest of my spiders.

Leading up to the following events, nothing has changed in her environment. No new feeders, water, chemicals or sprays, no unusual activity near her enclosure or in the house. I have 500+ other spiders at the moment, and none are showing these behaviors. I live alone in a single family home, nobody sprays in or around the house for bugs. My dog is on monthly pills for flea/tick/heartworm prevention, no flea collars or topicals.

July 27, 2021: Noticed she had removed one of her pedipalps. She was still bleeding, recent amputation. She is normally a very calm spider, but when I opened the lid, she tore around the enclosure in a hair kicking frenzy. I left her alone.

July 28, 2021: She removed one of her legs. Again, she was still bleeding, recent amputation. (Both amputations clotted off normally, as expected from legs.) Later on in the day, leg 1 was sticking straight up and leg 2 was sticking straight out. She was and still is unable to bend them or use them to walk. Her back pair of legs are also mostly immobile. She is very weak and lethargic.
View attachment 389862 View attachment 389864

July 29, 2021: No change. I disabled a small roach and dropped it near her. She moved away from it as quickly as she could, which was not very quickly.

July 30, 2021: Found her crumpled in the corner of the enclosure. She responds to touch, but is very weak. Her mouth is clean and dry, no smell. I tried flipping her the rest of the way upside down to administer water droplets to her mouth, but she was strong enough to resist this and was able to right herself. Earlier today, leg 2 was sticking straight up in the air. It's gone down, but legs 1 and 2 are both still "stuck" straight out, and she's unable to bend or use them. Back pair of legs also still seem mostly paralyzed.
View attachment 389861 View attachment 389863

I will continue to document her progress, whichever way this goes.

I saw similar gestures in a young H. pulchripes; However, it was AFTER a molt - the animal died.
But what is present here must be something else if the last moult was a long time ago.
The only tip I can give: if you are not sure what to do - hands off and hope!
 

EvilTrailMix

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
96
I know you've been a keeper for a long time so this might seem like an insulting question, but is it at all possible she's been exposed to a chemical?
Not insulting, but no, I can't think of anything she could've been exposed to.

I saw similar gestures in a young H. pulchripes; However, it was AFTER a molt - the animal died.
But what is present here must be something else if the last moult was a long time ago.
Sorry to hear that, but thank you for sharing. I've had different issues turn up directly after a molt, but just out of the blue like this, after nearly a year of normal behavior? It's really got me stumped.

Update for today: No change. She's still weak, but she moved around the enclosure a bit. The affected legs are still unusable.
 

EvilTrailMix

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
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Aug 17, 2006
Messages
96
She's still alive. Abdomen has decreased in size. No change to her behavior.
 

EvilTrailMix

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
96
Coordination and mobility are still very bad, but she's hanging in there. Her remaining pedipalp and the first 3 legs on her right side are mostly functional, and she slowly drags herself around the enclosure with these. Her abdomen had shrunk to the point of being lumpy, so I tried to maneuver her to her water dish tonight. She could not manage this, kept flipping on her side as some of her legs curled and some stuck straight out, seemingly not under her control. She flipped all the way over, and I added water droplets to her mouth. She took 58 drops over the course of a little over an hour, before righting herself. Her abdomen is improved.

B. auratum injury5.png B. auratum injury6.png

Realizing I messed up the dates in my initial post, but I can't edit it. Those should all be June, not July.
 

Dorifto

He who moists xD
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
2,772
Bury the waterdish so it's leveled to the ground, and then place her mouth on the waterdish.

Stop feeding by calendar right now, and give her some roaches until her abdomen reaches a good size. Feeding using a calendar is a big mistake that wont make any good to your T, and much more in this situation, because she need energy to recover, and you are restricting that energy giving some roaches every two months...
 

EvilTrailMix

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
96
Bury the waterdish so it's leveled to the ground, and then place her mouth on the waterdish.

Stop feeding by calendar right now, and give her some roaches until her abdomen reaches a good size. Feeding using a calendar is a big mistake that wont make any good to your T, and much more in this situation, because she need energy to recover, and you are restricting that energy giving some roaches every two months...
Her dish is a shallow lid that only sticks about 1/2" above the substrate, but I will bury it and see if that helps. The issue with getting her to the water dish was that she kept flailing and would not be still over it. Kept flipping herself over.

I do feed by abdomen size, not calendar, which is why I only feed my large, slower growing spiders once every few months. Since her decline, I have offered soft, maimed prey twice, but she has no interest in eating. I don't think her coordination will allow it. She was pretty dehydrated yesterday, but after watering, her abdomen is plump and about the same size as her carapace. I'm keeping a close eye on her for changes.
 
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