Spider bites - general discussion

[The Snark]

To start this thread, an analysis of a typical bite from a potentially problematic spider.

Hesperus. Southern California, 1970, in a vent of a crawl space under an apartment building. Poison control advised rubbing moist baking soda on the bite area and observe watch-for symptoms for 24 hours.

It wasn't as bad as the old wives tales I assume. I have a bunch of hesperus, mactans, and some hasselti. Not planning to get bit but it's good to hear testimonies in any case.

So poison control's quite casual matter of fact response.
Apply a paste of baking soda and allow to dry.
1. Baking soda is hygroscopic. Draws out moisture.
2. It's a mild antiseptic.
3. It is anti inflammatory.
4. Neutralizes acids.
So their response was basic first aid - prevent infection combined with drawing out body fluids and residual venom and observe.
Why so casual?
If venom was injected there was no immediate treatment. No reliable anti-venin at that time and all anti-venins present potential problems of their own. And then, most or all medical intervention of an envenomed bite is symptomatic. Maintain an airway and monitor heart rate. Deal with symptoms if and when they arise. This applies to all bites and stings. Venom injected, it's there. Cannot be removed or neutralized. If it managed to get into the blood stream this would occur within a few seconds on out to a minute or two.

So combine the above with poison control's experience with Latrodectism it makes perfect sense. If symptoms arise immediately seek medical attention, though apparently black widows rarely are able to inject enough venom that goes systemic to cause a concern. Poison control in that area where L Hesperus is common probably records dozens or hundreds of calls every year and they keep tabs on how many actually cause symptoms that compromise a persons health.

 

[Smotzer]

I heard a story though this week from a first hand account from a friend in Mexico, around Baja California MX, who one time when their friend was bite by a Latrodectus it was quite severe and he had to be taken to the hospital immediately, so it’s interesting how experiences can be on both extremes, some use baking soda, some needing to be rushed to the ER

 

[The Snark]

around Baja California MX, who one time when their friend was bite by a Latrodectus it was quite severe and he had to be taken to the hospital immediately, so it’s interesting how experiences can be on both extremes, some use baking soda, some needing to be rushed to the ER

Lot's of extenuating circumstances need to be taken into account. First, what were the symptoms? Second, better safe than sorry scenario. What emergency intervention was available and time frames for access. Third, pre existing conditions and unrelated symptoms that may have been triggered.
So muscle cramps, nausea, irregular breathing or heart beats, get your butt to the ER, whether the bite really was significant or the incident just caused a hypertensive crisis.

 

[NMTs]

I got bit by a black widow (around these parts, they are of the L. hesperus variety) years ago - probably 15 years ago at this point. I didn't end up in the hospital, but it wasn't fun. I didn't even realize when I'd been bitten because it happened in my sleep. I woke up with a welt on my thigh about the size of my hand, and it was a little tender, but otherwise didn't hurt much. Upon closer inspection, there was a small pin-prick near the center of the welt. I figured I'd been bitten by something, but didn't know what. Within about 2 hours of waking up, I started to have flu-like symptoms (aching muscles and joints, chills, sweats, mild fever, headache, fatigue). These symptoms lasted a solid 2 days before subsiding. Mild pain at the site of the bite lingered for about a week, and the center of it scabbed over and took a while to heal. I actually still have a little scar there today. I only figured out that it was L. hesperus that bit me because I found it's smooshed carcass in my bed sheets a couple days later.

My guess is that many people get bit and don't have a major reaction at the site of the bite, so they don't even realize they have been bitten even though they may be having some systemic symptoms. If I didn't have the bite site reaction, I would have thought I was just sick with a virus or something.

 

[The Snark]

My guess is that many people get bit and don't have a major reaction at the site of the bite, so they don't even realize they have been bitten even though they may be having some systemic symptoms. If I didn't have the bite site reaction, I would have thought I was just sick with a virus or something.

This is the central issue.

As an aside, don't expect too much from the medical community when it comes to spider bites. To begin with, it's almost impossible to detect venom in a patient. A few micrograms dispersed throughout the body. And second, the following quote is from the medical profession as to how to treat a bite:

• Wrap ice or an ice pack in a clean cloth and apply it to the bite site. This can slow the rate at which the venom spreads through the body.
• If the area is not getting proper blood flow, reduce the amount of time the ice is applied.

Who the hell was the genius who wrote that? Ice is used to restrict the blood flow and prevent further spread of the venom. But if the area is not getting proper blood flow.... <FACE PALM>

Just an FYI for first aid from a bite or sting.
SCRUB it clean with antiseptic. Povidone iodine, alcohol or etc. Why take the chance on adding an MRSA infection to the problem.
ICE. The technical low down is cold triggers a natural defense mechanism to retain body heat, The small blood vessels contract and restrict or stop blood flow. But freezing any part of your body causes cell damage. Technical term in this case a hypothermic burn aka frostbite.
So you cover the bite sight with a clean cloth or dressing or even tissue paper. Whatever will keep the ice away from direct contact with your skin. Then cover with ice, ice pack. The moisture or condensation will make the cover dressing wet at around the ideal temperature - just above freezing. Then you treat it just like a tourniquet. Leave it and let a medically trained person take over. Do not remove the ice. It's uncomfortable but doing the job and causing no harm while keeping the venom localized at the bite site.

What comes next when the medical folks take over. Call it like it is, it's going to hurt as bad or worse than the bite or sting. Flooding the area with antiseptic and scrubbing hard with a stiff bristle brush, if at all possible down as deep as where the venom is. Called debriding it's not fun, but better than systemic venom or bacteria.

I thought my angry cat bite infection was near as bad as the rattler bite in the pain department. Then the nurse started grinding away with that brush down into a quarter inch + deep fang hole.

 

[CRX]

I've been bitten by a adult female Phiddipus octopunctatus, and it caused the lymph nodes in my neck to swell up for a few hours. Thats the only time I've ever had a reaction like that from a spider bite.