Spider bite, wanna guess the species?

[SkitterAlong]

hey kids! I went to Urgent Care today when my previously-innocent-looking little bug bite blew up into a hot swollen bullseye overnight. My entire arm aches in the joints, kinda feels like I've had a tetanus shot in the arm. Recieved the bite (painless, or nearly) in the garage while shuffling boxes around. Never saw that naughty little bug! We have widows in there but this clearly isn't a widow bite. I am running a low fever and have had two lengthy bouts of vomiting. They have me on antibiotics with a warning to go to the ER if fever passes 102, if cloudy or white fluids ooze out (have had some drops of clear fluid) if the redness reaches elbow or extends upward to shoulder, if the localized bite area turns gray/purple, etc. Recheck with Dr tomorrow. I'm in Garden Grove, CA (valley area, northern.) So whatcha think it might be? Haven't seen ticks here but that doesn't mean they aren't around!

 

[marclar]

Has it got any worse since this post ?

 

[pitbulllady]

Without seeing an actual spider, there is no way to pinpoint the bite on a spider. What it DOES look like, though, is the typical "bullseye"- patterned rash that often signals Lyme Disease, which is caused by the bite of a very tiny Deer Tick, a tick so minute that most people never notice them. I'd definitely get tested for Lyme if I were you.

pitbulllady

 

[Comatose]

Without seeing an actual spider, there is no way to pinpoint the bite on a spider. What it DOES look like, though, is the typical "bullseye"- patterned rash that often signals Lyme Disease, which is caused by the bite of a very tiny Deer Tick, a tick so minute that most people never notice them. I'd definitely get tested for Lyme if I were you.

pitbulllady

+1

See here: http://healthguide.howstuffworks.com/lyme-disease-picture-b.htm

I'm not a doctor, so I don't know if that's what it is, but I would get it checked out with the quickness.

 

[SkitterAlong]

The doc drew blood today to check for lyme. He can see two prick marks with a magnifier so he thinks spider but we all know here that its not solid proof. It's still the same overall (although I finally stopped throwing up:barf and my fever wanders between 100 and almost 102. Oddly enough I've developed a facial rash to go with it, little red dots like broken capillaries. Doc says it's an infection and not an allergy response, also states that he can palpate a lima-bean size abscess under the skin so we're doing warm wet compresses to help that surface. Bullseye has not gotten any larger since this morning but the outside edges have become thicker and less defined. Have had a tension headache off and on through the day.

Maybe I should write up a proper bite report.

 

[Malhavoc's]

secondary bacterial infection does occur from most bites of insects and arachnids, making it even harder to guess what the culprit may of been, it could of simply been a sliver aswell! so we may never know.

 

[0siris]

Hope it's not a brown recluse bite

 

[super-pede]

Hope it's not a brown recluse bite

there are none in california to my knowledge

 

[myrmecophile]

Looks alot like a reduviid bite.

 

[NikiP]

I don't think it's lyme disease. Your symptoms came on strong and quick. Lyme usually takes a few days plus it tends to build slowly so you may not even notie getting sicker.

Btw, lyme disease is very tricky to diagnoise and only a few clinics wil get you real results. Tests run in the office or in a nearby lab often produce false negatives. Even with the proper tests, many clinics treat on symptoms alone.

We lymies usually end up feeling like we are nuts for a reason If it came on that fast, strong, and extreme then I bet the disease would be taken more seriously

Fingers crossed it's just a spider bite, the outcome is usually far better.

 

[Ran]

RE Bite

There are brown recluses in calif. Seen some up north in San Luis Obispo. Spiders do migrate thru the air on parachute type webbing, or could have come freight-wise on some cargo from anywhere. Their bites look like a huge red pimple with a protruding whitehead....hope yours is not. Just FYI.

 

[Malhavoc's]

There are brown recluses in calif. Seen some up north in San Luis Obispo. Spiders do migrate thru the air on parachute type webbing, or could have come freight-wise on some cargo from anywhere. Their bites look like a huge red pimple with a protruding whitehead....hope yours is not. Just FYI.

There *may* be recluse in california, however to my knowledge it is not documented, and in recluse habitat, they are very easy to find the spiders often cluster in similiar habitat, so gos the saying " its not hte one you see its the dozens more you dont" unlike its name its not really a reclusive spider, often hanging in and around human development scavaging dead insects that we have killed for them.

as it stands Im more inclined to say there is no recluse around.

Also if it is a bacterial infection and NOT venom causing this bite wound you need to consider many of the symptoms may be unrelated to what the spider is actualy capable of.

going off location of bites happening, I am more inclined to say it was a more common sac spider, maybe even a wolfie.

 

[SkitterAlong]

Update: still have a big honkin' bullseye! The bad: Bruising has developed in the center of it and it did come to a head of pus which opened on its own and drained. It's now scabbed over. Have run very slight fever off and on but nothing over 100 f now, no big deal. Most importantly the doctor emailed photos of the bite taken the last 2 days to a local entomologist (along with a detailed description of my symptoms) and said entomologist pegged my probable 'attacker' as Loxosceles deserta. ;P Still no guarantee that's what it was (everyone here and the buggy fellow the doctor contacted has said the same) but that's how the medical staff are treating it. Species has a medically significant bite from what I know but isn't half as worrisome as its cousin L. reclusa.

The good: Vomiting has all stopped! Swelling is quite a ways down now too and the redness of the bullseye isn't as vivid; also the outer ring has blurred and become less defined. The redness that was going down my arm has receded and the oozing fluid has turned clear. No sign of necrotic tissue so far and the miserable aching in my joints (only in that arm) has receded up to my elbow..yay for being able to hold a pen again. So yep, there's improvement. I am told that the primary risk for a bite from any spider in that genus is that many people think nothing of it and do not seek help until the damage is done. I was in a doc's care within 48 hours of the bite so it should be fine. I am going to the clinic once a day to have it cleaned, dressed and checked for changes.

Hubby set out glue traps in the garage to see what we can catch and (needless to say) we will be fogging said garage shortly. We have a 3 year old son and we don't want to chance him being bit and going through this. I hate killing spiders but in this case I think it's necessary.

Which brings me to another issue: our garage is attached to our house but there is no door into the house from inside it. If we fog the garage will my tarantula collection in the house be in danger? I don't know who could take them for a few weeks and it makes me uneasy to have them here while the fogging happens. Losing my T's would hurt me more than this bite did. We do have a small unused bathroom at the far end of the house away from the garage, maybe I can cram their setups in there and block the gap at the bottom of the door with towels? If so how long should they stay in there?

On a funny note my girlfriends are not spider people and they are quite horrified by this event and confused as to why I'm keeping a journal about it and am overall rather intrigued by the healing process...at least now that the misery of high fever, puking and aching joints has passed. LOL

Will try to get a new photo up if anyone wants a look.

 

[Malhavoc's]

I think the fogging will be limited to the garage, the glue traps will most certianly atch the culprit they usualy do in that family or at least on of its relitives, ust take extra percations with your tarantula collection, wash your hands change your clothes etc, keep things to a minimal level of possible cross contamination.

 

[myrmecophile]

Fogging should be limited to to room being treated, the particles are generally too large to travel far and do not penetrate into closed or secluded areas well at all. Considering this occurred in GG Calif, I still feel it is very unlikely this is a Loxosceles bite, and still am leaning toward a true bug.

---------- Post added at 09:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

Fogging should be limited to to room being treated, the particles are generally too large to travel far and do not penetrate into closed or secluded areas well at all.

 

[The Snark]

Suggestions and comments

First and foremost, fogging is not all that effective for spiders, especially the ones that hide.

Secondly, my congratulations on your proper response to the bite and am relieved a qualified entomologist got in on things. Regarding that, this is an excellent example of making a point of NOT JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS!!

1. You have symptoms of systemic poison: Rapid profusion and nausea
2. You had symptoms of an infection: pus.
This is extremely important. If not properly differentiated the two can cloud and confuse the diagnosis. The pus, dead white blood cells and body fluids, is not normally a symptom of a poisonous bite and it takes hours or even days to go systemic. The first indication of bite infections going systemic is cellulitis, diffuse, not confined in specific boundaries as your is. Thus two culprits.

Note that the poison symptoms went systemic very rapidly. A strong indication of a toxin, possibly containing some neuro-toxic properties. Continuous vomiting bears this out.

The doctor might wish to culture the pus, or you can request the culturing. It may be a common bacteria, but there is a chance it is a bacteria very specific to a certain spider or insect as the Lyme disease culprit, Borelia.

For reference, read about the very common bite infection known as Cat Bite/Scratch fever. This is purely a bacterial infection caused by Pastuerella Multocida. It's infective progress typifies a rapid bacterial infection.

---------- Post added at 12:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------

Upon reflection, the bacterial part of your bite could easily be P Multocida. Trapped in the dermal layers, the doctor immediately whammed it with antibiotics, keeping it confined to the localized area.. The gram negatives like it are the common bad news boys of infections and the reason why doctors slam you with a hefty dose of a broad spectrum antibiotic the second they see a puncture wound.

 

[SkitterAlong]

Pic was taken yesterday before the whitehead broke. I took this pic on my own and it's an awkward angle, sorry about the blur. Camera flash makes the bruising (which has yellowed some now) less noticeable in the pic. Scabbing is rather ugly. It surprised us how much fluid was under that 'zit' when it broke, what you see in the pic is very much just the tip of the iceberg. Soaked right through my nightshirt and had a vaguely unpleasant smell.

Actually the doc said he will culture if any more pus shows up, as of now its pretty dry. If the traps catch anything suspicious we're told to take the bug to the doc so he can send it out for an ID...of course even if we catch something there's no certainty that's what nibbled on me. Only the shadow knows. Someone asked here if I experienced muscle spasms: no, but I had aching tetanus-vaccine-like pain in every joint in that arm (from shoulder to finger joints) and my hand quivered when I made a fist. The pain was nonstop whether I was still or moving and I sometimes felt a quick there-gone stabby pain among the aching, especially in my elbow. I'm pretty sure I first noticed the bite within hours of it occurring as it looked pretty fresh. It looked a lot like an oversized flea bite with a visible red pinprick in the center which turned into a swollen bright-red bullseye with a pale center overnight.

So if fogging may not work too well on spiders (they do have plenty of cracks to hide in there) what should we use? Maybe we should just bite the financial bullet and hire a professional. :wall:

Husband says my tarantulas are all thinking 'aww man, I wanted to be the first to bite her!' ;P

 

[The Snark]

Your symptoms, joint aches and spasms (quivering is a spasm), resemble the effects of a neuro-toxin but that is very vague. The rapid pus development, rupture and weeping is pretty typical of a nasty bacteria that the antibiotic seems to be getting on top of. That part is basically identical to P Multocida infection. Gram negative bacteria is no laughing matter, as in a relative of P Multocida, P Pestus AKA black death AKA Bubonic plague, spread commonly by fleas. I assume your doctor told you the watch for symptoms if your lymph nodes become involved. If not, check with her/him.

As for spider, mite, tick, flea de-infestation, you can go the route of a professional pest control company but keep in mind, in order to be highly effective against poison resistant critters such as those, the spraying is copious as the animals need to be wetted by it to assure full effectiveness and repeat applications are often necessary. IE, you and yours and your environment will be getting a pretty hefty dose of the crap as well.

The most effective form of pest control without filling your life with powerful poisons is diligence. Go through the garage or where ever, every inch of it, with a vacuum. Then apply a reliable organophosphate spray like Raid(tm) to all cracks and crevices. With visible critters, you can just get them wet with water, preferably distilled, containing 2 to 5% dish washing liquid. That will drown them without loading more poison into your life. However, some fleas don't respirate regularly and can be extremely difficult to kill even with commercial poisons.

PS IMPORTANT. As your doctor probably told you, watch the redness and swelling. If it starts traveling up the extremity towards the heart get your hiney to the doc or ER pronto!

 

[MissVenom]

Face Rash

It's still the same overall (although I finally stopped throwing up:barf and my fever wanders between 100 and almost 102. Oddly enough I've developed a facial rash to go with it, little red dots like broken capillaries.

Not being a Doc or seeing a picture, I can tell you from personal experience that the "facial rash" might just be broken capillaries from vomiting. I had that happen to me all around my face (especially my eyes) when I had a very violent stomach bug (no pun intended). So if they aren't itching then maybe just put ice or cold compress on it. Good luck buddy!

.:Miss Venom:.

 

[The Snark]

I'd say don't rely just on fogging. That has proven to be almost entirely ineffective to spiders that hide in cracks and crevices.

It sounds like you may have also picked up a staph infection.